Rumor: ANA-DET John Gibson to Detroit

[Dotter]

Detroit just traded their second best defenseman with a 2nd to San Jose for literally nothing. Detroit also lacks elite talent and goaltending. As of right now Detroit is a worse team than they were at the end of last season. It's made with only 32 million in cap space and 16-20 of that going to Raymond/Seider and 9-12 of that going to Veleno and Ghost and/or Kane Detroit is left with very little space to get up to the minimum roster size.

We are learning that Walman wasn't as good as you think he was. Why else would he have absolutely no value to NHL teams around the league?

Think it's time to accept the fact that evaluating talent on the internet while sitting on a couch is different than those evaluating talent in the confines of a multi-million dollar war room with the best hockey minds in the world sitting at the table.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Gibson still has a cult like fanbase, the same way Marshall Applewhite did before he convinced his followers to commit a mass suicide, so that the space ship with Jesus on board could come pick them up and take them to the other side.

But even the media is somewhat in on it. Because most of the media should be wondering why Gibson has any value at all right now.

I don't know if Gibson is the most overrated goalie in the league still. He was about 2 years ago though, but I don't think most people think he's good anymore. But there's a vocal bunch that still do and wanna blame everything on the Ducks being bad.

Yet we've seen a lot of bad teams with goalies that perform better than Gibson has over the last handful of years?

Yeah it's bizarre to me. It's not even like people are cherrypicking stats to argue about Gibson, it's literally every stat available says he's terrible. The only argument against it is basically just "he's good because I say he's good". It's weird that this website will say a guy sucks because of a bad 15 game stretch, but Gibson can be bad for 5 years and people still say "he's just bad because he's on the Ducks". While ignoring that he's consistently getting outperformed by his backups.

Even with all of that, I'd understand the risk with Gibson if he had short term left and not so much money. But he doesn't, he still has 3 years left at $6.4 million a year. So he's been bad for 5 years, has an expensive contract and his GM (allegedly) wants value for him and doesn't want to retain. Literally what in that is appealing?

 

[tomd]

Yeah it's bizarre to me. It's not even like people are cherrypicking stats to argue about Gibson, it's literally every stat available says he's terrible. The only argument against it is basically just "he's good because I say he's good". It's weird that this website will say a guy sucks because of a bad 15 game stretch, but Gibson can be bad for 5 years and people still say "he's just bad because he's on the Ducks". While ignoring that he's consistently getting outperformed by his backups.

Even with all of that, I'd understand the risk with Gibson if he had short term left and not so much money. But he doesn't, he still has 3 years left at $6.4 million a year. So he's been bad for 5 years, has an expensive contract and his GM (allegedly) wants value for him and doesn't want to retain. Literally what in that is appealing?

Do you really think that Verbeek is on the phone begging other GM's to take Gibson? Seems more like Yzerman is going after a goalie and Gibson is the best one still remaining. Verbeek has long maintained that he won't give Gibson away so he either stays in Anaheim or goes to another team for a reasonably good return.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Do you really think that Verbeek is on the phone begging other GM's to take Gibson? Seems more like Yzerman is going after a goalie and Gibson is the best one still remaining. Verbeek has long maintained that he won't give Gibson away so he either stays in Anaheim or goes to another team for a reasonably good return.

My point is saying Yzerman is an idiot for going after Gibson, if he is going after Gibson. No team should be going after Gibson for any sort of return for the reasons I listed.

I'm not saying Anaheim should bend over backwards to get out of his deal, I'm saying that any team that trades for him to "fix" their goalie issues is really dumb.

 

[tomd]

My point is saying Yzerman is an idiot for going after Gibson, if he is going after Gibson. No team should be going after Gibson for any sort of return for the reasons I listed.

I'm not saying Anaheim should bend over backwards to get out of his deal, I'm saying that any team that trades for him to "fix" their goalie issues is really dumb.

I'd say the odds of a trade are 50/50 and growing. And if there is a trade there will likely be 1-2 contracts coming back but also one good piece going to Anaheim. Yzerman knows he needs to get a goalie from somewhere and the market is suddenly very thin.

 

[JKG33]

NHL GMs like Gibson. Fans who watch the Ducks like Gibson. Spreadsheet jockeys hate Gibson.

 

[Empoleon8771]

NHL GMs like Gibson. Fans who watch the Ducks like Gibson. Spreadsheet jockeys hate Gibson.

Just like I said, the sole argument is "he's good because I say he's good".

Also where's this proof that NHL GMs like Gibson? The GM that gave Gibson the deal was Bob Murray, who retired 4 years ago. He signed an 8 year deal in August 2018 and has not even been given the opportunity to show how other GMs "like" Gibson.

 

[Ace]

NHL GMs like Gibson. Fans who watch the Ducks like Gibson. Spreadsheet jockeys hate Gibson.

Teams that play against Gibson LOVE Gibson.

 

[JKG33]

Teams that play against Gibson LOVE Gibson.

See now that was a funny one. Good chirp, well done.

Just like I said, the sole argument is "he's good because I say he's good".

 

[Empoleon8771]

Teams that play against Gibson LOVE Gibson.

In the last 5 years, the Ducks are 74-129-33 in games Gibson has played in and are 53-68-16 in games Gibson did not play in. Over an 82 game season, that's a 63 point pace with Gibson playing and a 73 point pace without Gibson playing.

That's a 236 game sample size with Gibson and a 137 game sample size without Gibson that shows they're a 10 points better team without Gibson playing.

 

[JKG33]

In the last 5 years, the Ducks are 74-129-33 in games Gibson has played in and are 53-68-16 in games Gibson did not play in. Over an 82 game season, that's a 63 point pace with Gibson playing and a 73 point pace without Gibson playing.

That's a 236 game sample size with Gibson and a 137 game sample size without Gibson that shows they're a 10 points better team without Gibson playing.

Now do the quality of opponent

 

[Empoleon8771]

Now do the quality of opponent

Quality of opponent isn't going to have that kind of impact on a nearly 400 game sample size.

 

[tomd]

In the last 5 years, the Ducks are 74-129-33 in games Gibson has played in and are 53-68-16 in games Gibson did not play in. Over an 82 game season, that's a 63 point pace with Gibson playing and a 73 point pace without Gibson playing.

That's a 236 game sample size with Gibson and a 137 game sample size without Gibson that shows they're a 10 points better team without Gibson playing.

I think you are missing the plot here...if there is a trade it will be b/c Yzerman wants Gibson; not b/c Verbeek is trying to give him away.

 

[JKG33]

Quality of opponent isn't going to have that kind of impact on a nearly 400 game sample size.

Gibson frequently gets the better teams. His backup, like most backups, gets to play the lesser teams and easier matchups

 

[Empoleon8771]

I think you are missing the plot here...if there is a trade it will be b/c Yzerman wants Gibson; not b/c Verbeek is trying to give him away.

My point is saying Yzerman is an idiot for going after Gibson, if he is going after Gibson. No team should be going after Gibson for any sort of return for the reasons I listed.

I'm not saying Anaheim should bend over backwards to get out of his deal, I'm saying that any team that trades for him to "fix" their goalie issues is really dumb.

Literally what Verbeek wants to do here isn't relevant. My point is that Gibson is asscheeks.

 

[tomd]

Literally what Verbeek wants to do here isn't relevant. My point is that Gibson is asscheeks.

Then discuss why Yzerman apparently wants him b/c it seems like he doesn't think that Gibson is "asscheeks". This isn't Verbeek or Anaheim initiating this speculation.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

This is a dumb gamble. There is nothing in his game over the last 5 years that say he's the same player he was in the first half of his career.

I want him to take the 1A goalie for next year then support Cossa for a couple seasons. As a former high end goalie prospect coming up through the ranks I think he can help him a lot with adjustments. While his stats have been bad lately, he starts games which has been a problem throughout the Red Wings rebuilds in terms of durability. I don't think we have to pay a lot to pry him lose either. You have to believe Verbeek knows the value he would want from us if it was more prospect based in terms of a decision to eat some salary as well.

 

[n8]

At no point does he say anything negative about Cossa's development.

Again, not directly. He's literally like "I'm not going to name names." when asked about disappointments. There were some disappointments among young and veteran players. And like 2 questions later, he's like "Cossa is not ready" when talking about the goalie situation. Well he says he's going to be the 1A in GR and he says he's progressing, but I got that he'd like Cossa to be further along. Again, I'm reading between the lines and it's fine if you have a different interpretation than I do.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I want him to take the 1A goalie for next year then support Cossa for a couple seasons. As a former high end goalie prospect coming up through the ranks I think he can help him a lot with adjustments. While his stats have been bad lately, he starts games which has been a problem throughout the Red Wings rebuilds in terms of durability. I don't think we have to pay a lot to pry him lose either. You have to believe Verbeek knows the value he would want from us if it was more prospect based in terms of a decision to eat some salary as well.

If Gibson didn't have the contract he had, I'd be a lot more understanding of taking the gamble from Detroit's POV. But his contract is just poison unless the Ducks are eating well over a third of it. If Gibson would be bought out right now and was a free agent, I think he'd be an absolutely great reclamation project for another team to gamble on. But he's not, he's coming with 3 years left at $6.4 million. It's a really big contract to be gambling on a bounce back with how long it has been since he was actually performing to his reputation.

It's funny I'm using this comparison because Dubas is now my team's GM, but it sounds super similar to the Leafs gambling on Murray when they traded for him from Ottawa. Granted injuries played a huge role in Murray falling off, but Murray didn't have it for years and he continued to not have it with Toronto.

 

[Petes2424]

You go get a Gibson because he makes timely saves. That’s what makes you a top goaltender in the NHL. You’ll have bad seasons and bad stats with bad teams. It’s the players who step up “in the moment” that set them apart as a goaltender. Gibson would be a good get for Detroit. To team him up with Lyon next season, and then Cossa in 26’, and whatever happens after that.

They cannot go into next season, depending on Husso. Perfect example of a goalie who doesn’t make the timely saves, when your team really needs it. Gibson is a pressure goalie and he’s proven it.

It’s the old Grant Fuhr take. Stats mean nothing, if you make the saves when they count the most. Exactly why guys like Markstrom and Gibson still hold value and respect.

 

[norrisnick]

Being bad for most of a game so you can play the hero late is not a viable strategy. As soon as his teams couldn't outscore his problems Fuhr very quickly washed out of the limelight.

 

[CrazyDuck4u]

You go get a Gibson because he makes timely saves. That’s what makes you a top goaltender in the NHL. You’ll have bad seasons and bad stats with bad teams. It’s the players who step up “in the moment” that set them apart as a goaltender. Gibson would be a good get for Detroit. To team him up with Lyon next season, and then Cossa in 26’, and whatever happens after that.

They cannot go into next season, depending on Husso. Perfect example of a goalie who doesn’t make the timely saves, when your team really needs it. Gibson is a pressure goalie and he’s proven it.

It’s the old Grant Fuhr take. Stats mean nothing, if you make the saves when they count the most. Exactly why guys like Markstrom and Gibson still hold value and respect.

Gibson also gives up timely goals. Beware lmao

 

[SmokeyDuck]

To be fair, in many of those years Gibson's backups played a much smaller number of games than he did. So I don't think that means his backups are definitely better than him.

However, I do believe Dostal played 2 or 3 more games than Gibson did this year, at least when I had this argument a couple weeks ago I looked it up. And Dostal performed marginally better than Gibson under the same workload.

So if I'm to believe that Gibson is still useful and good, and that it's just the Ducks making him look bad, then should I believe that Dostal is really good?

Dostal is a legit beast. I think Gibson would be good for Detroit. No idea on the return.

 

[Axel Sandy Pelikan]

Yeah it's bizarre to me. It's not even like people are cherrypicking stats to argue about Gibson, it's literally every stat available says he's terrible. The only argument against it is basically just "he's good because I say he's good". It's weird that this website will say a guy sucks because of a bad 15 game stretch, but Gibson can be bad for 5 years and people still say "he's just bad because he's on the Ducks". While ignoring that he's consistently getting outperformed by his backups.

Even with all of that, I'd understand the risk with Gibson if he had short term left and not so much money. But he doesn't, he still has 3 years left at $6.4 million a year. So he's been bad for 5 years, has an expensive contract and his GM (allegedly) wants value for him and doesn't want to retain. Literally what in that is appealing?

I want John Gibson even less than I want Tristan Jarry.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

You go get a Gibson because he makes timely saves. That’s what makes you a top goaltender in the NHL. You’ll have bad seasons and bad stats with bad teams. It’s the players who step up “in the moment” that set them apart as a goaltender. Gibson would be a good get for Detroit. To team him up with Lyon next season, and then Cossa in 26’, and whatever happens after that.

They cannot go into next season, depending on Husso. Perfect example of a goalie who doesn’t make the timely saves, when your team really needs it. Gibson is a pressure goalie and he’s proven it.

It’s the old Grant Fuhr take. Stats mean nothing, if you make the saves when they count the most. Exactly why guys like Markstrom and Gibson still hold value and respect.

All depends on cost to me. If he can be acquired for cheap and/or if Anaheim takes a contract back to lessen his cap hit, itd be worth the risk.

If they are expecting some good return with little to no retention, f*** that.

I think it's possible they'd ship him out for cheap just to give him a chance somehwere else and to make Dostal the 'guy'.