An actual breakdown on taxes per team

[DistantThunderRep]

Except. NHL players agents gms and the math disagree.

I have read it.
Anyone can claim to be an expert here. You can research yourself. There are actual articles from actual accountants who work with NHL clients and have their real name on it.

There are calculators. There are adjustments that are made. Lewis Gross literally gives a spread sheet to his clients on what each salary means in each market

And you will clearly see that top stars with NMC and full SB in low tax markets take 11-12%. In high it’s 14-15. Which equalizes net pay.

Pretty common themes for individuals.

I would suggest if you are really interested. read up on the issue. It has been discussed here for years.



No.

You don’t know of what other Canadian players are doing. You don’t know about these magical loopholes that level the playing field. You are just saying they are there.

NHL agents players accountants disagree.

Methot said he paid 700k more in taxes in Ottawa than Dallas. They all could be paying way more.

There was one specific example of an article that slightly made your point. And JT is going to court.

 

[Legion34]

View attachment 881004

No. Sourced are NHL agents players GMs who have been quoted ad nauseam. Over years.

You are the only person who hasn’t provided a single source.

My favourite time was when you had a fake accountant on the Tampa board tell me that the cap friendly calculation was wrong. Only to admit it “looked right”.

 

[DistantThunderRep]

Except. NHL players agents gms and the math disagree.

I have read it.
Anyone can claim to be an expert here. You can research yourself. There are actual articles from actual accountants who work with NHL clients and have their real name on it.

There are calculators. There are adjustments that are made. Lewis Gross literally gives a spread sheet to his clients on what each salary means in each market

And you will clearly see that top stars with NMC and full SB in low tax markets take 11-12%. In high it’s 14-15. Which equalizes net pay.

Pretty common themes for individuals.

I would suggest if you are really interested. read up on the issue. It has been discussed here for years.



No.

You don’t know of what other Canadian players are doing. You don’t know about these magical loopholes that level the playing field. You are just saying they are there.

NHL agents players accountants disagree.

Methot said he paid 700k more in taxes in Ottawa than Dallas. They all could be paying way more.

There was one specific example of an article that slightly made your point. And JT is going to court.

Again, a look at the thousands of NHL players who haven't said shit about paying more in taxes. This is like you finding the one person in the world that thinks the sky is magenta, and then saying YES, SEE ONE OTHER PERSON SEE'S IT LIKE THIS.

 

[Legion34]

Again, a look at the thousands of NHL players who haven't said shit about paying more in taxes. This is like you finding the one person in the world that thinks the sky is magenta, and then saying YES, SEE ONE OTHER PERSON SEE'S IT LIKE THIS.

What? There are plenty of players who say it all the time.

Stamkos literally just said it. Is he wrong?

Can you show me one person who has said there is no difference ? Allan Walsh was the only one who ever openly denied it. Then he invited his tax guru on to a podcast.

The tax guy laughs and said it wasn’t like that and moved on.

That’s ridiculous

Here is an old one. Where Jeff Petrys financial advisor says it’s important

Liberal tax hike on high-income earners could affect star athletes signing with Canadian teams

The incoming Liberal government's plan to raise the tax rate on high-income earners could make it harder for professional sports teams in Canada to sign star players

nationalpost.com

 

[tucker3434]

Except. NHL players agents gms and the math disagree.

I have read it.
Anyone can claim to be an expert here. You can research yourself. There are actual articles from actual accountants who work with NHL clients and have their real name on it.

There are calculators. There are adjustments that are made. Lewis Gross literally gives a spread sheet to his clients on what each salary means in each market

And you will clearly see that top stars with NMC and full SB in low tax markets take 11-12%. In high it’s 14-15. Which equalizes net pay.

Pretty common themes for individuals.

I would suggest if you are really interested. read up on the issue. It has been discussed here for years.

Read what? That there are differences in take home pay? Of course there are. But two guys with the same contracts on the same team will have different tax burdens. That’s what makes this whole thing nonsense.

 

[DistantThunderRep]

No. Sourced are NHL agents players GMs who have been quoted ad nauseam. Over years.

You are the only person who hasn’t provided a single source.

My favourite time was when you had a fake accountant on the Tampa board tell me that the cap friendly calculation was wrong. Only to admit it “looked right”.

You want an independent body to regulate government standards. You're ridiculous advocating revolves around this premise:

1) Taxation is unfair and directly involves the cap. Players WILL ALWAYS take less in no tax states. (Please don't look at Sergachev, Boborovsky, Tyler Seguin, Matt Duchene, Jamie Benn, Vasilevskiy, Mark Stone etc...)

2) Normalize Tax across the league because its an advantage for certain teams.

3) Doesn't matter that Endorsement deals and Canadian Players pay players in American dollars (30% more) because that isn't an advantage for a Canadian Team.

This is like looking at a child and them wanting your piece of cake and their own.

Just admit it, you don't want equalization, you want your team to have more advantages than everyone else.

What? There are plenty of players who say it all the time.

Stamkos literally just said it. Is he wrong?

Can you show me one person who has said there is no difference ? Allan Walsh was the only one who ever openly denied it. Then he invited his tax guru on to a podcast.

The tax guy laughs and said it wasn’t like that and moved on.

That’s ridiculous

Here is an old one. Where Jeff Petrys financial advisor says it’s important

Liberal tax hike on high-income earners could affect star athletes signing with Canadian teams

The incoming Liberal government's plan to raise the tax rate on high-income earners could make it harder for professional sports teams in Canada to sign star players

nationalpost.com

“It’s inescapable. It comes up every time but I’ve never had an instance where, it’s like, we’re not going to sign with the Toronto Raptors because of it.”

“The majority of players try to establish residency in Texas or Florida, places that have no state taxes or low taxes.”

Exactly what we are saying...

This is what you refuse to get through your head. Its not a matter of it existing, its a matter of players giving a shit about it. They don't because they still sign in these high tax states and cities. The way you make it seem, its like Toronto never kept Nylander, Marner, Reilly, or Matthews.

 

[Legion34]

You want an independent body to regulate government standards. You're ridiculous advocating revolves around this premise:

1) Taxation is unfair and directly involves the cap. Players WILL ALWAYS take less in no tax states. (Please don't look at Sergachev, Boborovsky, Tyler Seguin, Matt Duchene, Jamie Benn, Vasilevskiy, Mark Stone etc...)

2) Normalize Tax across the league because its an advantage for certain teams.

3) Doesn't matter that Endorsement deals and Canadian Players pay players in American dollars (30% more) because that isn't an advantage for a Canadian Team.

This is like looking at a child and them wanting your piece of cake and their own.

Just admit it, you don't want equalization, you want your team to have more advantages than everyone else.

So you’ve moved from facts to motives. Always signs of a losing argument

Endorsements are not part of the current csp
Or standard player contracts and not subject to gauranteed/substitute hours etc.

Therefore they cannot be subjected
Or considered to the current cap.

If they wanted to cap that. Then fine. But if they do they have to make it fair.

Not capping contracts for some and allowing others to do cheat.

It’s ridiculous to try to justify cheating in certain domains by talking about unrelated things.

 

[DistantThunderRep]

So you’ve moved from facts to motives. Always signs of a losing argument

Endorsements are not part of the current csp
Or standard player contracts and not subject to gauranteed/substitute hours etc.

Therefore they cannot be subjected
Or considered to the current cap.

If they wanted to cap that. Then fine. But if they do they have to make it fair.

Not capping contracts for some and allowing others to do cheat.

It’s ridiculous to try to justify cheating in certain domains by talking about unrelated things.

Moved away from what? My whole thing has been the exact same thing. You just have problems keeping up. Your argument has flopped for years.

Endorsements have never been fair, and you have kept mum on it because it hurts your arguments. Do you want to include all location factors into your idiotic plan? Think about it for a more than a second. Things that included into the CBA is location, FEDERAL TAX TREATIES between the US and Canada, already.

Have you heard a single NHL team complain about this? (Genuine question because I haven't) Not some retired player, GM, but actual ownership? If it was a such a huge detriment to competition and parity, then why has it not been addressed or even tabled at the owner's meetings?

 

[Legion34]

You want an independent body to regulate government standards. You're ridiculous advocating revolves around this premise:

1) Taxation is unfair and directly involves the cap. Players WILL ALWAYS take less in no tax states. (Please don't look at Sergachev, Boborovsky, Tyler Seguin, Matt Duchene, Jamie Benn, Vasilevskiy, Mark Stone etc...)

2) Normalize Tax across the league because its an advantage for certain teams.

3) Doesn't matter that Endorsement deals and Canadian Players pay players in American dollars (30% more) because that isn't an advantage for a Canadian Team.

This is like looking at a child and them wanting your piece of cake and their own.

Just admit it, you don't want equalization, you want your team to have more advantages than everyone else.


“It’s inescapable. It comes up every time but I’ve never had an instance where, it’s like, we’re not going to sign with the Toronto Raptors because of it.”

“The majority of players try to establish residency in Texas or Florida, places that have no state taxes or low taxes.”

Exactly what we are saying...

This is what you refuse to get through your head. Its not a matter of it existing, its a matter of players giving a shit about it. They don't because they still sign in these high tax states and cities. The way you make it seem, its like Toronto never kept Nylander, Marner, Reilly, or Matthews.

1.) the leafs players did. They just signed for more than taxe free states which gives the advantage.

2.)this is the entire point why the RCA doesn’t matter for hockey. You just Proved NBA players try to avoid it by making residency in low tax states.

You can’t just do that in hockey where you play 60% of your games in Canada. Comparing other sports is crazy.

 

[Tanknation]

So you’ve moved from facts to motives. Always signs of a losing argument

Endorsements are not part of the current csp
Or standard player contracts and not subject to gauranteed/substitute hours etc.

Therefore they cannot be subjected
Or considered to the current cap.

If they wanted to cap that. Then fine. But if they do they have to make it fair.

Not capping contracts for some and allowing others to do cheat.

It’s ridiculous to try to justify cheating in certain domains by talking about unrelated things.

Soon they will be talking about how certain players opened up a side poutine and bacon business in certain Canadian markets and that will need to be factored into the cap as well.

The only ones that argue against fairness are the ones that are in the lower taxed states. If it was the other way around, they would not be so quick to throw ridiculous statements to try to make anything stick.

 

[tucker3434]

Soon they will be talking about how certain players opened up a side poutine and bacon business in certain Canadian markets and that will need to be factored into the cap as well.

The only ones that argue against fairness are the ones that are in the lower taxed states. If it was the other way around, they would not be so quick to throw ridiculous statements to try to make anything stick.

I’ve never head a proposal that made a bit of sense. If you’ve got one, I’m all ears.

Nobody realizes how difficult this would be.

Edit: Just for fun I’ll throw my best idea out there. Have every NHL contact be indexed to a 32 team schedule put out by the league on an annual basis. The par value of the contract is the cap number. Same for everyone. Actual compensation gets multiplied by the factor in the schedule based on the team you play for to arrive at actual comp. But I have no idea how you’d make that annual schedule at a reasonable price point. None. So again, luxury tax makes more sense.

 

[Tanknation]

I’ve never head a proposal that made a bit of sense. If you’ve got one, I’m all ears.

Nobody realizes how difficult this would be.

Edit: Just for fun I’ll throw my best idea out there. Have every NHL contact be indexed to a 32 team schedule put out by the league on an annual basis. The par value of the contract is the cap number. Same for everyone. Actual compensation gets multiplied by the factor in the schedule based on the team you play for to arrive at actual comp. But I have no idea how you’d make that annual schedule at a reasonable price point. None. So again, luxury tax makes more sense.

If the salary cap is set at $100 million and the team with the lowest tax rate pays 5% while another team pays 15%, the latter team should receive an additional $10 million in their salary cap. This adjustment accounts for the 10% difference in tax rates. The mechanism ensures that the team with the lowest tax rate maintains a $100 million salary cap, or whatever the cap is set at, and each team's salary cap is adjusted proportionally based on the tax rate differential. This method equalizes the financial impact across all teams, making it a straightforward adjustment.

 

[tucker3434]

If the salary cap is set at $100 million and the team with the lowest tax rate pays 5% while another team pays 15%, the latter team should receive an additional $10 million in their salary cap. This adjustment accounts for the 10% difference in tax rates. The mechanism ensures that the team with the lowest tax rate maintains a $100 million salary cap, or whatever the cap is set at, and each team's salary cap is adjusted proportionally based on the tax rate differential. This method equalizes the financial impact across all teams, making it a straightforward adjustment.

That’s an oversimplification of the tax system. Nobody pays taxes on their gross income. It’s their AGI that matters. And everybody at least gets the standard deduction. and that’s without considering the away game taxes paid. It’ll never just be 10%.

Further, you’re granting a benefit to high tax teams in trades. A player that signs in Dallas and gets traded to Toronto becomes a massive value. It’s basically double dipping if the tax benefit is as extreme as believed.

 

[Tanknation]

That’s an oversimplification of the tax system. Nobody pays taxes on their gross income. It’s their AGI that matters. And everybody at least gets the standard deduction. It’ll never just be 10%.

Further, you’re granting a benefit to high tax teams in trades. A player that signs in Dallas and gets traded to Toronto becomes a massive value. It’s basically double dipping if the tax benefit is as extreme as believed.

A team like Toronto, needs to receive an additional $10 million to facilitate player trades to make that player fit, as they may still struggle to sign or retain that player due to the inherent discrepancies in the salary cap structure compared to a team like Dallas with the current state.

This imbalance arises because the salary cap is not equitably adjusted between teams, despite differing tax implications. Regardless of public opinion, taxes significantly influence player compensation and their preferred locations. For instance, if a player signs for $7 million in Dallas, a team like Montreal would need to offer approximately $8.5 million to provide equivalent post-tax earnings. This disparity underscores the inherent unfairness in the current system.

 

[tucker3434]

A team like Toronto, needs to receive an additional $10 million to facilitate player trades to make that player fit, as they may still struggle to sign or retain that player due to the inherent discrepancies in the salary cap structure compared to a team like Dallas with the current state.

This imbalance arises because the salary cap is not equitably adjusted between teams, despite differing tax implications. Regardless of public opinion, taxes significantly influence player compensation and their preferred locations. For instance, if a player signs for $7 million in Dallas, a team like Montreal would need to offer approximately $8.5 million to provide equivalent post-tax earnings. This disparity underscores the inherent unfairness in the current system.

I understand that there’s a difference in take home pay, but you’ve got to come up with something that’s agreeable to at least 17 of 32 teams. A team like St Louis probably doesn’t employ a bunch of morons in their accounting department. So just giving a 10% cap bonus to certain teams isn’t going to get you there. Because they know that you’ve just put your foot on the scales in high tax teams’ favor. Come up with something neutral in fairness and cost.

Good luck.

 

[edog37]

Because it’s not up to them to correct for poorly run businesses in different countries that can’t turn a profit?

The NHL created an artificial system in the name of parity. It’s on them to make it fair

This constant whining. The cap was put in place for economic certainty, not for “fairness”. Pittsburgh doesn’t have a beach or great winter weather nor is PA’s tax structure all that great, but we still manage to compete for talent.

The NHL is just another employer in those markets. The politicians are there to ensure their respective regions can compete by having friendly tax laws. Demand better of those making the laws.

 

[Legion34]

This constant whining. The cap was put in place for economic certainty, not for “fairness”. Pittsburgh doesn’t have a beach or great winter weather nor is PA’s tax structure all that great, but we still manage to compete for talent.

The NHL is just another employer in those markets. The politicians are there to ensure their respective regions can compete by having friendly tax laws. Demand better of those making the laws.

How do people not read. HRR is for certainty. You don’t need every team to have the same cap any more than you need every player to have thr same cap on a team. The teams budget is still certain.

1.) the cap is implemented equally across all teams specifically for parity. There are multiple articles from Bettman that he prides himself on creating parity through his cap structure.

2.) the NHL is under no obligation to correct for any Market advantage/disadvantage. Ie. weather endorsements etc. but they chose to artificially impose parity.
If you choose to artificially impose something you have to make it fair.

 

[tarheelhockey]

This is not an issue of endorsements. A player may choose to sign with a team that offers extra endorsements despite high taxes, and it would be illogical to penalize that team or player for such a decision. The crux of the matter is not about targeting Canadian teams who generally pay higher taxes but rather about ensuring a level playing field through the salary cap, giving every team an equal opportunity.

Also, yes, star players are just so eager to join teams like Montreal and Toronto due to perceived endorsement benefits...not. these teams often face challenges in attracting top talent as it is. However, that is a separate issue altogether.

Fact remains. It should be an even playing field in terms of the salary cap. It's just that simple.

Like I said before —if you think I was making a bad argument in that post, you now know how your argument looks to the rest of us.

 

[JianYang]

A team like Toronto, needs to receive an additional $10 million to facilitate player trades to make that player fit, as they may still struggle to sign or retain that player due to the inherent discrepancies in the salary cap structure compared to a team like Dallas with the current state.

This imbalance arises because the salary cap is not equitably adjusted between teams, despite differing tax implications. Regardless of public opinion, taxes significantly influence player compensation and their preferred locations. For instance, if a player signs for $7 million in Dallas, a team like Montreal would need to offer approximately $8.5 million to provide equivalent post-tax earnings. This disparity underscores the inherent unfairness in the current system.

It's not really cut and dry as you suggest. You can take two teammates with the similar gross compensation, and even their tax rates can be different based on several variables including contract structure and their individual tax planning.

Even if we were to subscribe to the theory that there ought to be a normalizing factor applied to the cap for tax rates (which i don't), it is very impractical to come up with a number that encompasses all the complexities of the three elements (Canadian code, US code, and canada/US tax treaty).

We are trying to put a black and white answer in a field that is astoundingly grey.

 

[DistantThunderRep]

Watch in 2 years when the CBA comes up, nothing changes, no one says shit, and Canadian fans cry for infinity and beyond.

 

[Scintillating10]

Montreal highest taxed team in league

 

[westc2]

Vote in politicians who will lower your state/provincial income taxes if you want to attract more UFA's to your team.

 

[DistantThunderRep]

Vote in politicians who will lower your state/provincial income taxes if you want to attract more UFA's to your team.

Canada changed Capital Gains Tax. Basically on yearly gains of over $250,000 (Not including Primary Residency meaning the home you live in) will be 66.7% in Canada starting June 25, 2024.

Canadian fans will add this to why the league needs to adjust the Salary Cap for their favourite sports teams.

 

[Golden_Jet]

1.) you literally just said a few pages back that rich people can just avoid taxes and the government “sucks them off”. Right?

Turns out no.
Financial ties are what matters. Not residency. That’s just one part. People who lie about taxes always sight the us residency. It’s very difficult and onerous and up for dispute. An agent for NHL players said most only can do it for the first year.


You again just decided that it’s easy. That’s the whole point he did what you said. And got sued

2.) anyone can claim to be an accountant here. We have published articles from named players, gms agents and accountants with NHL clients that you ignore.

RCAs are embarrassing. I have them. It’s not high level millionaire stuff. It just avoids double taxing. Locks you in to where you want to retire (have to take out in certain markets) and you have to trickle it out like a pensioner to avoid high tax brackets. It’s just insane that you compare that to cash in hand today.

Even though they are now where near the same as cash in hand
The raptors are fundamentally different because they can claim greater financial ties easier.
-41 road games in the states
-off season in states.

Canadian teams play more than half their games in Canada. Much harder to do.

If I randomly told you I have 36 NHL players and am an account. Would you just stop being wrong and agree with me?

Ya guys like Matthew’s with his signing bonus, and Arizona residency, has the highest take home pay in the league.

Vote in politicians who will lower your state/provincial income taxes if you want to attract more UFA's to your team.

Like I believe what they say lol.

 

[Legion34]

Ya guys like Matthew’s with his signing bonus, and Arizona residency, has the highest take home pay in the league.


Like I believe what they say lol.

1.) you have no idea if he is able to claim that. You have to show greater financial ties to US than Canada. Which means that you have to
-have more days in us
-have no property in Canada (including long term lease/car/kids in school or girlfriend/boyfriend with shared assets).
-Canadian endorsements.
-public appearances. Etc.


That is in no way comparable to a blanket here is your money like the current tax breaks.

But yes. Sure. Absolutely equalize any systematic advantages. Especially the ones that are clearly shown to lead to players openly acknowledging taking less.

Which has not been proven to be the case with Matthews in your million hoops he had to run through.