Weekes: Along with The Devils, significant interest on Meier are coming from Vegas, Toronto, Carolina

[notbias]

There’s just simply no way they’re outbidding NJ or CAR, especially if they don’t include Knies.

Teams don't just outbid each other for fun, they have limits, why can no one grasp this?

If the Leafs offered all their picks from the next three drafts, are they getting outbid? No. The Leafs also won't do this because it's insane.

So you think Nemiela is enough to outbid NJ and the Canes ? No chance. If there is a bidding war , the only way the Leafs end up with Meier is if they completely gut their prospect pool . A that point , go for it. If you dont get past the Lightning this year , have fun improving with zero assets and slammed up against the cap.

Read above, not sure why you can't grasp that they don't need to have a better prospect pool to outbid another team.

Stop embarrassing yourself by speaking about things you don't know about, such as the Leafs' prospects.

 

[McDuffz88]

I think the Devils have the best prospects to make a deal work and there is the Swiss factor too, but I think Devils fan underestimating the implications for cap next year and on the team next year. Yes they have the money to sign Meier (8-9M) and Bratt (7-8), plus Shango due for a raise, who I think they keep. But all these takes from Devils fans that we can just throw in 2 rookie D next year into our top 6 and 3 rookie F as well and a rookie backup goalie, that can affect the team. Name the last team who had playoff success with potentiallly that many rookies in the lineup. Maybe they do sign some vets for cheap or some of their own UFA/RFA cheap, but I don't think it will be as easy as some think.

We're not really throwing out rookies besides Luke Hughes (who is so bluechip that he's not an ordinary rookie & should make an immediate impact) & one of Okhotuik or Bahl. Right now if we resigned Bratt & Meier our forward corps only has 1 empty spot. We let Wood walk & Boqvist is on the team (addition by subtraction), Haula we can probably resign for really cheap & if that happens there is 0 rookies for fowards. The d corps is going to going to have Luke Hughes as a rookie and we let Severson walk. If Graves is willing to resign for a reasonable price then do that. But if not we still aren't icing a bunch of rookies. Our lineup right now if we resigned only Haula would be
Meier-Nico-Zetterlund/Bratt/Mercer
Palat-Hughes-Bratt/Zetterlund/Mercer
Sharangovich-Haula-Mercer/Zetterlund
Boqvist-Mcleod-Bastian
Siegs-Hamilton
Hughes-Marino
Okhotuik-Smith
Vanecek
Schmid

 

[Stewie Griffin]

You really have no idea what the return is for Meier, maybe they send 3 1sts, I'd say that is likely enough.

There has been multiple reports that the ask is 1st + prospect or 1st + 2 prospects depending who the prospects are.

 

[notbias]

There has been multiple reports that the ask is 1st + prospect or 1st + 2 prospects depending who the prospects are.

So saying that the Leafs can't outbid another team when that is the ask and no one has paid yet is insane. Teams have limits to what they are willing to offer.

 

[hotpaws]

ELCs are not necessarily bargain bin players, and they are also filling out the bottom portion of the roster mostly.

And what does Muzzin's LTIR this year have to do with next year? If Muzzin was playing, I am pretty sure we are cap compliant at 20 players by the way.

we wouldn't be cap compliant without Muzzin on ltir , this was already discussed endlessly before the season started

your argument that we can afford him isn't based in reality when you realize if we traded for and qualified him we'd be at about 63m on 5 frwds and 2 d which would leave about 20m for 13 players to ice a 20 man roster

and that's with the team paying to dump Murray and not including the raise Sammy gets or the salary of an upgrade in net if needed

 

[Nocashstyle]

Teams don't just outbid each other for fun, they have limits, why can no one grasp this?

If the Leafs offered all their picks from the next three drafts, are they getting outbid? No. The Leafs also won't do this because it's insane.



Read above, not sure why you can't grasp that they don't need to have a better prospect pool to outbid another team.

You’re not making the great point you think you are lol.

So I’ll put it in very simple terms: what exactly do you really think Toronto has to realistically offer that SJ would accept over NJD and CAR when both those teams have a surplus of assets a rebuilding team would covet?

 

[notbias]

we wouldn't be cap compliant without Muzzin on ltir , this was already discussed endlessly before the season started

your argument that we can afford him isn't based in reality when you realize if we traded for and qualified him we'd be at about 63m on 5 frwds and 2 d which would leave about 20m for 13 players to ice a 20 man roster

and that's with the team paying to dump Murray and not including the raise Sammy gets or the salary of an upgrade in net if needed

2D? Why ignore the other 4 signed? You have a motive here (which I already knew).

We are cap compliant with Muzzin because there is no way we hold onto all the D playing currently, is Holl going to be a #7 being paid $2 million? No.

You’re not making the great point you think you are lol.

So I’ll put it in very simple terms: what exactly do you really think Toronto has to realistically offer that SJ would accept over NJD and CAR when both those teams have a surplus of assets a rebuilding team would covet?

Just because a team can outbid another, it does not mean they will, what is so hard to understand?

 

[Nocashstyle]

Just because a team can outbid another, it does not mean they will, what is so hard to understand?

If they want the player, they will put forth the best package. You seem to be holding out hope that CAR and NJD just lowball SJ and don’t negotiate at all.

Friedman even stated that Tom Fitzgerald has told Mike Grier to call him before he accepts a Meier trade from another team.

So once again, in your mind, you think Toronto has the assets to trade for Meier and don’t necessarily even need to include Knies. So what are those again?

 

[hotpaws]

2D? Why ignore the other 4 signed? You have a motive here (which I already knew).

We are cap compliant with Muzzin because there is no way we hold onto all the D playing currently, is Holl going to be a #7 being paid $2 million?

we are using Muzzin on ltir to be cap compliant and as i already said it was discussed endlessly prior to the season that we'd have to move someone before the season started to get cap compliant before his injury

and your the only one with a motive here and that's why you keep spinning and not replying realistically

so i'll repeat if we acquired and qualified him we'd have roughly 20m to spend on 13 players to ice a 20 man lineup , does that sound realistic to you ?

 

[Eggtimer]

Teams don't just outbid each other for fun, they have limits, why can no one grasp this?

If the Leafs offered all their picks from the next three drafts, are they getting outbid? No. The Leafs also won't do this because it's insane.



Read above, not sure why you can't grasp that they don't need to have a better prospect pool to outbid another team.

Stop embarrassing yourself by speaking about things you don't know about, such as the Leafs' prospects.

Sorry l assumed that everything is within the realm of being reasonable. Yes , if the Leafs move every single propescf and the next 5 years worth of picks they can outbid other teams…. Using your same logic, the Devils could also do the same amd outbid them still. I think you are just not willing to admit that the Leafs prospect pool is not even close to that of the Devils , Canes ( teams that are actual possibilities to get Meier).
I probably do not know the Leafs prospext pool as well as you do but I dint have to know it in depth.
I know that the top 10 prospects in NJ amd Canes system is miles better than the top prospects for the Leafs.
I don’t need to know about the entire Leafs prospect pool . It’s a pile of mediocre pieces that evey team has a handful of .

 

[hotpaws]

If they want the player, they will put forth the best package. You seem to be holding out hope that CAR and NJD just lowball SJ and don’t negotiate at all.

Friedman even stated that Tom Fitzgerald has told Mike Grier to call him before he accepts a Meier trade from another team.

So once again, in your mind, you think Toronto has the assets to trade for Meier and don’t necessarily even need to include Knies. So what are those again?

the Leafs aren't in on him , we just get included on every player for the clicks

i'm sure we could offer an attractive pkg of Knies plus picks but we don't have the cap space to re-sign him so unless Shanny also believes his job is on the line i don't see him letting Dubas make this type of offer

 

[notbias]

we are using Muzzin on ltir to be cap compliant and as i already said it was discussed endlessly prior to the season that we'd have to move someone before the season started to get cap compliant before it was his injury

and your the only one with a motive here and that's why you keep spinning and not replying realistically

so i'll repeat if we acquired and qualified him we'd have roughly 20m to spend on 13 players to ice a 20 man lineup , does that sound realistic to you ?

Why are you ignoring all the other NHL players signed? It makes 0 sense.

Yes, having 8 NHL d means we'd need to move one or two, everyone knew this, this is not news. What I am saying is do you think the Leafs would have moved their #7 if he was making 2 million? I'd say yes, and then they'd be cap compliant, but they didn't need to do that.

They are using Muzzin LTIR to be cap compliant, but if he wasn't on LTIR, it probably just means we have a better D group and Holl was moved.

Sorry l assumed that everything is within the realm of being reasonable. Yes , if the Leafs move every single propescf and the next 5 years worth of picks they can outbid other teams…. Using your same logic, the Devils could also do the same amd outbid them still. I think you are just not willing to admit that the Leafs prospect pool is not even close to that of the Devils , Canes ( teams that are actual possibilities to get Meier).
I probably do not know the Leafs prospext pool as well as you do but I dint have to know it in depth.
I know that the top 10 prospects in NJ amd Canes system is miles better than the top prospects for the Leafs.
I don’t need to know about the entire Leafs prospect pool . It’s a pile of mediocre pieces that evey team has a handful of .

The Devils and Canes have a better pool, I am not afraid to admit this, I am admitting it.

The Leafs can outbid the Devils or Canes by offering the best package. Teams have limits on what they are willing to pay, that is all I am saying. If the Devil's best offer is Holtz + 1st, the Leafs can outbid it, not sure they will want to, but they can. That is all I am saying, I don't care how good a team's prospect pool is, I care about what they are willing to offer.

 

[leafsfan5]

The Leafs don't have $8-million to re-sign him this summer. That's the whole point.

It doesn't matter what they pay in the first year of a three-year deal. They either qualify him, sign him or let him go to free agency. The Leafs don't have the cap space to qualify him or sign him to a multi-year deal. He would end up a free agent.

You're forgetting another option, deal him in the summer as an RFA

 

[MAB1]

Sure there are always ways to make it work .”Just “ need to gut your team and use a handful of league minimum players . Amd find teams to unload your overpriced junk on . No problem.
Having 5 forwards making an average of 10+ mil each …. What could go wrong ? Just double shift each of the top two lines and don’t bother using your league minimum guys ever.

Some teams spend $17.5 million on their top 6 RW, other teams spend $17.5 million on Miles Wood, Tomas Tatar, Erik Haula, John Marino and Ryan Graves.


Miles Wood, Tomas Tatar, Erik Haula, John Marino, Ryan Graves and Mackenzie Blackwood = what the Leafs pay Marner and Matthews.

The Devils up haven't had a $10 million contract in ages and yet they've made the playoffs once since 2012.

 

[notbias]

If they want the player, they will put forth the best package. You seem to be holding out hope that CAR and NJD just lowball SJ and don’t negotiate at all.

Friedman even stated that Tom Fitzgerald has told Mike Grier to call him before he accepts a Meier trade from another team.

So once again, in your mind, you think Toronto has the assets to trade for Meier and don’t necessarily even need to include Knies. So what are those again?

What is New Jersey's best offer?

 

[Nocashstyle]

the Leafs aren't in on him , we just get included on every player for the clicks

i'm sure we could offer an attractive pkg of Knies plus picks but we don't have the cap space to re-sign him so unless Shanny also believes his job is on the line i don't see him letting Dubas make this type of offer

Yeah exactly. Is it possible Toronto could make it work? Sure. Is it likely? Probably not.

 

[Stewie Griffin]

So saying that the Leafs can't outbid another team when that is the ask and no one has paid yet is insane. Teams have limits to what they are willing to offer.

How is that insane when other teams prospects are viewed higher than the leafs, as well as have a more intriguing 1st round pick? Obviously if Dubas wants to throw a bunch of firsts at Grier, yeah they could theoretically outbid another team, but we don't know what has been offered yet.

Yes teams have limits to what they are willing to offer, and teams like CAR/NJD are more willing and have a larger asset pool to work with. It's not hard to see the leafs have a worse prospect pool than those teams (and others rumored like BUF and even WIN)

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

What is New Jersey's best offer?

I would imagine its something like

1st
Holtz
Sharangovich OR Zetterlund
another minor throw in (mid round pick or okay prospect, maybe like a Reilly Walsh or Nolan Foote)
someone like Andreas Johnsson (cap purposes)

 

[hotpaws]

Why are you ignoring all the other NHL players signed? It makes 0 sense.

Yes, having 8 NHL d means we'd need to move one or two, everyone knew this, this is not news. What I am saying is do you think the Leafs would have moved their #7 if he was making 2 million? I'd say yes, and then they'd be cap compliant, but they didn't need to do that.

They are using Muzzin LTIR to be cap compliant, but if he wasn't on LTIR, it probably just means we have a better D group and Holl was moved.

i'm not ignoring anything , i'm just making the point we'd have 20m to spend on 13 players to be able to ice a 20 man roster , i have no idea what you're trying to say other than we can get under the cap if we fill the lineup with bargain bin players

and the point isn't just to get cap compliant but to build the best team possible

 

[Eggtimer]

Why are you ignoring all the other NHL players signed? It makes 0 sense.

Yes, having 8 NHL d means we'd need to move one or two, everyone knew this, this is not news. What I am saying is do you think the Leafs would have moved their #7 if he was making 2 million? I'd say yes, and then they'd be cap compliant, but they didn't need to do that.

They are using Muzzin LTIR to be cap compliant, but if he wasn't on LTIR, it probably just means we have a better D group and Holl was moved.



The Devils and Canes have a better pool, I am not afraid to admit this, I am admitting it.

The Leafs can outbid the Devils or Canes by offering the best package. Teams have limits on what they are willing to pay, that is all I am saying. If the Devil's best offer is Holtz + 1st, the Leafs can outbid it, not sure they will want to, but they can. That is all I am saying, I don't care how good a team's prospect pool is, I care about what they are willing to offer.

I get what you are saying but it is so unrealistic that peole don’t even consider this as it’s not going to harken , never will happen , never would happen where for example , Toronto offers 4 1st round picks pljs Knies . Ya … that would probably land you Meier. But I’d say that there is a better chance that Jesus Christ himself walks through my front door right now to hang out and play some PS5

 

[Eggtimer]

I would imagine its something like

1st
Holtz
Sharaangovich OR Zetterlund
another minor throw in (mid round pick or okay prospect, maybe like a Reilly Walsh or Nolan Foote)

I’d think the same . Maybe a Bahl , Okhotiuk instead of Foote type prospect but that’s getting pricey .
Maybe add a conditional 2nd or 3rd (based off of ?)
I can see SJ trying for Mercer . Then move on to Mukhamadoulin or Casey in place of another prospect in addition to Holtz.

 

[notbias]

I would imagine its something like

1st
Holtz
Sharangovich OR Zetterlund
another minor throw in (mid round pick or okay prospect, maybe like a Reilly Walsh or Nolan Foote)
someone like Andreas Johnsson (cap purposes)

How is Holtz projecting? He seems like the main piece and I am just asking because Robertson is outproducing him this year, the even-strength (and overall) production from Holtz is concerning, but I don't watch enough to know, he just has horrible stats and his xGF% is terrible.

Sharangovich and Zetterlund also don't look fantastic based on stats.

It seems like the 1st may be the most valuable piece going back.

 

[Clam Jensen]

I think the Devils have the best prospects to make a deal work and there is the Swiss factor too, but I think Devils fan underestimating the implications for cap next year and on the team next year. Yes they have the money to sign Meier (8-9M) and Bratt (7-8), plus Shango due for a raise, who I think they keep. But all these takes from Devils fans that we can just throw in 2 rookie D next year into our top 6 and 3 rookie F as well and a rookie backup goalie, that can affect the team. Name the last team who had playoff success with potentiallly that many rookies in the lineup. Maybe they do sign some vets for cheap or some of their own UFA/RFA cheap, but I don't think it will be as easy as some think.

We are not underestimating the cap implications at all. We’ve had cap discussions on our own board at least daily when a new poster asks if both Bratt and Meier can fit next year. Spoiler alert: they can.

 

[kevsh]

He was being low balled, not being greedy.

Agreed with your entire post, but this part. Willie was coming off a 20 goal/60 point season, almost identical to his 2nd season and at the time I believe the thinking was he should be getting low/mid 6s on a longer-term deal, or at least the just-shy of $7M he signed for was on the high side.

It also didn't help that his father's influence on his contract wasn't encouraging:

"In his 16 NHL seasons, Michael Nylander played for seven teams, including a second go-round with the Washington Capitals. The common thread running through every stop was contentious contract negotiations. "

Nylander negotiations boil down to what Papa wants

One consistent signal beaming from the Nylander camp since contract negotiations started last summer is that the restricted free agent’s father is the one calling the shots

www.theglobeandmail.com

And so there was some fear that "junior" would play hard ball just like his dad did, and look what happened. Dubas went way above and beyond the call to get him signed - way more than any GM should have to for a player that was not the franchise player, or even a star.

So that's why I pointed out that between Timo and Nylander, even if Willie is considered the better talent, Timo is a big, skilled forward the Leafs could use in their top 6 and will likely be the easier negotiation and possibly at a cheaper cap hit. that's if he wants to stay.

 

[Eggtimer]

How is Holtz projecting? He seems like the main piece and I am just asking because Robertson is outproducing him this year, the even-strength (and overall) production from Holtz is concerning, but I don't watch enough to know, he just has horrible stats and his xGF% is terrible.

Sharangovich and Zetterlund also don't look fantastic based on stats.

It seems like the 1st may be the most valuable piece going back.

Robertson is out producing Badard for AHL points too and has more NHL points . So if I was the team that drafted Bedard l I’d trade him for Robertson for sure