Thank you for addressing my question. Ignore the Robertson comment and address his terrible point production and bad play-driving stats. I only added Robertson because he is a similar-aged player who people say is struggling and has no value.
Weekes: Along with The Devils, significant interest on Meier are coming from Vegas, Toronto, Carolina
- Thread starter UrbanImpact
- Start date
Thank you for addressing my question. Ignore the Robertson comment and address his terrible point production and bad play-driving stats. I only added Robertson because he is a similar-aged player who people say is struggling and has no value.
Zajacs Bowl Cut
Lets Go Baby
Holtz has been yo-yo'd in and out of the lineup all year, and when he does play he gets put on the 4th line with turds and hardly gets PP time. He is less than a year removed from a ppg year in the AHL as a 20 year old, which is impressive. He didnt just forget how to play.
Forge
Blissfully Mediocre
I'm not worried about the defense or the goalie situation. There is no reason to think that Hughes can't step in right away and play at a pretty good level offensively at the very least. Having your #6 D being Okhotiuk or Bahl (if they wanted to keep Nemec in Utica next year) isn't great, but isn't a back breaker. Cap teams have to do this and hope that the structure and players around them smooth that out.
Blackwood has a sub .900 save percentage the last 75 starts which covers 3 years. I mean, you'd prefer to just be better in that spot, but if you're going to have that type of backup, there's no reason to think that you can't get that type of performance at a third of the cost from Schmid or Daws
The forward group is where it gets more interesting, but there are too many moving parts for me to really say what they will do. I think it would be a big help if someone like Tatar came back on like a 2.25M cap hit next year. I'm not overly concerned about losing Wood given how bad he has been this year. Losing a player isn't always bad just because they have experience or a vet. It's already a lot of younger guys and RFAs...i'm not sure how that all shakes out. I could see Rango being gone, or re-signed, for example.
Strangle
Leafs Smol PP
- May 4, 2009
- 9,728
- 6,957
Agreed with your entire post, but this part. Willie was coming off a 20 goal/60 point season, almost identical to his 2nd season and at the time I believe the thinking was he should be getting low/mid 6s on a longer-term deal, or at least the just-shy of $7M he signed for was on the high side.
It also didn't help that his father's influence on his contract wasn't encouraging:
"In his 16 NHL seasons, Michael Nylander played for seven teams, including a second go-round with the Washington Capitals. The common thread running through every stop was contentious contract negotiations. "
Nylander negotiations boil down to what Papa wants
One consistent signal beaming from the Nylander camp since contract negotiations started last summer is that the restricted free agent’s father is the one calling the shotswww.theglobeandmail.com
And so there was some fear that "junior" would play hard ball just like his dad did, and look what happened. Dubas went way above and beyond the call to get him signed - way more than any GM should have to for a player that was not the franchise player, or even a star.
So that's why I pointed out that between Timo and Nylander, even if Willie is considered the better talent, Timo is a big, skilled forward the Leafs could use in their top 6 and will likely be the easier negotiation and possibly at a cheaper cap hit. that's if he wants to stay.
I can see all of that, it’s absolutely a perfectly valid point of view.
This is all very nuanced and it’s almost impossible to come to a consensus. These GM’s do not have an easy job
Is there a reason he can’t stay in the lineup? Seems a bit concerning the coaching staff doesn’t even trust him with consistent minutes yet he’s the awesome prospect at the center of the deal?
BlueBaron
Registered User
To be exact it was they would not spend them on a rental. That being said it seems a stretch we could get him and keep him, Vegas seems unlikely also.
They would have to qualify him first, and then try to move a $10-million contract.
No thanks.
It's been hard to draw any conclusions on Holtz simply because he hasn't played much in the last few months. If it were me, I would have sent him back to the AHL awhile ago. When he has gotten in, he's been used in the bottom six which isn't the ideal way to use him. Just seems like a limited sample space to draw any conclusions for a guy who just turned 21.
Sharangovich got pushed down the lineup with Palat and a returning Miles Wood. One thing with Sharangovich is that he hasn't received regular PP time in his three seasons. His 20 even strength goals last year was tied with guys like Elias Pettersson and Mikko Rantanen.
I'm not saying Sharangovich is a star player, but he's been productive in his limited role. I'm reminded of Wayne Simmonds having similar numbers as a King but not getting much PP time. Then he goes to Philadelphia where his role increased and he went from 15-20 goals to 25-30 goals. Albeit I don't think Sharangovich would crack many PP1 units around the league. But he'd get a small bump if he were to get PP2 time.
And one thing I like to point out with Sharangovich is that he and his wife just had their first kid a few months back. Taking a step off the ice, that'll change things to the say least.
Zetterlund's offense definitely fizzled out after getting 2RW time. He's probably better suited as a bottom six guy.
Forge
Blissfully Mediocre
I think it comes down to how they value Morrow vs Holtz. If they just like Morrow more then I'm not going to go crazy to beat them.
Sure. A team with no cap space gives a $10-miloion Q.O., and then has its back against the wall to move enough contracts to become cap compliant. Un unh.
Carolina has enough money coming off the books that they could make the same Q.O. without backing themselves into a corner. Bthe Leafs aren't suited for that kind of play this year.
SteveCangialosi123
Registered User
I think:
Holtz/Gritsyuk (depending on who they like)
Mukhamadullin/Casey
1st
One of Foote/Bahl/Okhotyuk
Im only offering this if Meier is signing for less than people are saying he will. Not giving up all that to give him 9.5 million and possibly lose Bratt.
leafsfan5
Registered User
- Jun 14, 2014
- 14,819
- 25,783
Just because he's qualified doesn't mean he's making 10 million, he will be an RFA at the time of the trade
And like I outlined before, I don't think his QO is a big deal. It's not like he's a 6 million dollar player who isn't worth close to 10. He can realistically command 8-9 million on a longterm extension. If a team gives him 9 million x 8 years and structures it to have 11 million in year 1 is he really going to turn that down?
Forge
Blissfully Mediocre
He had the Devils doubling back for Crouse and Vejmelka. No Timo would suck, but I've mentioned before that I thought I'd make a move on Crouse at this point.
Martin Skoula
Registered User
- Oct 18, 2017
- 12,196
- 17,157
Agreed with your entire post, but this part. Willie was coming off a 20 goal/60 point season, almost identical to his 2nd season and at the time I believe the thinking was he should be getting low/mid 6s on a longer-term deal, or at least the just-shy of $7M he signed for was on the high side.
It also didn't help that his father's influence on his contract wasn't encouraging:
"In his 16 NHL seasons, Michael Nylander played for seven teams, including a second go-round with the Washington Capitals. The common thread running through every stop was contentious contract negotiations. "
Nylander negotiations boil down to what Papa wants
One consistent signal beaming from the Nylander camp since contract negotiations started last summer is that the restricted free agent’s father is the one calling the shots
And so there was some fear that "junior" would play hard ball just like his dad did, and look what happened. Dubas went way above and beyond the call to get him signed - way more than any GM should have to for a player that was not the franchise player, or even a star.
So that's why I pointed out that between Timo and Nylander, even if Willie is considered the better talent, Timo is a big, skilled forward the Leafs could use in their top 6 and will likely be the easier negotiation and possibly at a cheaper cap hit. that's if he wants to stay.
How did he go above the call to sign him? The deal that got signed was the same one on the table in September, iirc the sticking point was that Nylander was worried signing a cheap deal would make him trade bait to some small market team he had no control in choosing. He can get an NTC on the upcoming contract so that won’t be a roadblock this time.
Forge
Blissfully Mediocre
Part of it, honestly, is just Ruff.
But lets be real...Holtz has some warts in his game. Okay to admit. His offensive game can be electric. He's a tremendous passer, and everyone knows about the shot. But his pace probably isn't where it needs to be for the Devils, and sure, off puck he can float. Let's just put it out there.
He's a guy that probably needs to be in the top 6 with a play driving center and he would look fine. I thought he looked solid in the preseason with Jack and Palat (they called it the H20 line) and the regular season happened and he was thrown into the bottom six with Haula and Tatar. The latter is a decent offensive winger still, but Haula has just been an offensive black hole this year. He scored a goal on the power play and the next game was relegated to sub 10 minutes of ice time and was out of the lineup by game three. This is largely been his situation with Ruff and I Don't know how you get the best of him offensively like that. That really is putting him in a situation where given his abilities, style, etc....he's probably not going to do well.
It seems like Ruff is just unwilling to let him ride through some of the flaws in his game, and given where the Devils are standings wise, I get it. It just puts Holtz in a really weird spot. He was a PPG in the AHL at 19 years old, so we already know what he's doing there. So just a really weird year.
The Leafs would be boxed into a corner with no leverage. Been there, done that. Pass.
If it's between a Morrow-based package and a Holtz-based package, I think my preference would be Morrow. The Sharks have very little in way of promising blue line prospects and wingers aren't terribly difficult to come by but it also depends on the other particulars in each package.
Strip away the Devils’ big 2 prospects, who won’t be made available here, and their asset pool isn’t much different than that of other teams. The 1st will be low moving forward, presumably. Holtz vs Morrow vs Knies is close enough that it probably comes down to organizational preference; Top 10 pedigree vs premium position vs premium playstyle. The prospects underneath are more valuable for NHL roster depth than trades.
leafsfan5
Registered User
- Jun 14, 2014
- 14,819
- 25,783
I disagree, I don't think they'll be that screwed in all honesty. The reason is that Meier is so good teams will pay to trade for him regardless
A similar case happened in the summer where the Wild needed to move Fiala and still got a decent package
Stewie Griffin
What the deuce
The Crypto Guy
Registered User
- Jun 26, 2017
- 28,194
- 36,678
StorminSnvechnAho
There is a storm coming prepare for the Surge
It should be interesting, Morrow isn't someone the Canes want to part with IMO but I think they might go all in this season.
The Metropolitan is an arms race the Canes can qualify him as well, I'd go for that just to keep him from NJ.
Forge
Blissfully Mediocre
I think that they can beat the Drury part of that.
But a lot could certainly come down to just preferring Morrow to Holtz. I mean, positionally, Morrow is going to be much preferred, I would imagine.
Stewie Griffin
What the deuce
If NJ/CAR offer Mercer of Jarvis they will no doubtly win Meier but no one suspects that to be the case unless they get real desperate.
The fact they are in the same division and the other top dog in their division who went on a playoff run last year just added Tarasenko could make them desperate to acquire Timo.
