GDT: All things training camp

[Teppo Numenor]

Or maybe the easiest. Winnipeg has saved Chevy from quite a few bad signings.

Guys who are coach, team, dressing room killers dont want to be here. Its a blessing

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I would not say gus is better offensively

Kupari last season - 28 games, 1 assist
Gus last season - 39 games, 3 goals, 4 assists

Kupari may be judged to have more potential offense, but he is showing no signs of achieving anything.

So if Kupari puts up "Gus numbers" this year you'll change your mind about him?

To some extent, yes.

 

[Buffdog]

Kupari last season - 28 games, 1 assist
Gus last season - 39 games, 3 goals, 4 assists

Kupari may be judged to have more potential offense, but he is showing no signs of achieving anything.



To some extent, yes.

I really like Gus and what he brings

Kupari definitely has better tools. Let's see if he can find some sort of toolbox for them... I'm gonna go out on a limb and predict that this will be his best year to date. Not that that says a whole lot lol

 

[surixon]

Kupari last season - 28 games, 1 assist
Gus last season - 39 games, 3 goals, 4 assists

Kupari may be judged to have more potential offense, but he is showing no signs of achieving anything.



To some extent, yes.

I mean Kupari does have 13 and 15 point seasons in LA in a similar role as he will have here. He was bad last year no doubt but he's shown way more offensively then Gus.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I really like Gus and what he brings

Kupari definitely has better tools. Let's see if he can find some sort of toolbox for them... I'm gonna go out on a limb and predict that this will be his best year to date. Not that that says a whole lot lol

His best year was 13 pts in 57 gms, or 15 in 66. I would be happy with those kind of numbers from him on the 4th line. About what I would also expect from Gus, give or take.

I was hoping he would show something in TC. Not holding my breath though. So far it has been pretty much like last season.

 

[gojetsgo]

Kupari last season - 28 games, 1 assist
Gus last season - 39 games, 3 goals, 4 assists

Kupari may be judged to have more potential offense, but he is showing no signs of achieving anything.



To some extent, yes.

career:
gus: 14 points in 114 games
kupari: 30 points in 158 games

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I mean Kupari does have 13 and 15 point seasons in LA in a similar role as he will have here. He was bad last year no doubt but he's shown way more offensively then Gus.

Not lately.

Gus showed some offense in his last couple of seasons with the Moose. I think he has more in him. Kupari should have more too but it sure doesn't look like it most of the time.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

career:
gus: 14 points in 114 games
kupari: 30 points in 158 games

Sure - but what have they done lately?

I know, I know, he is young and his less bad seasons were not that long ago. But Kupari was really bad last year and hasn't shown any better in the pre-season so far.

 

[Gm0ney]

Who specifically is “garbage”?

Fehr
Randy Jones
Glass
Miettinen
Ponikarovsky
Jokinen
Halischuk
Setoguchi
Tangradi
Ellerby
Wright
Peluso - He was a good fighter, just not a good hockey player.
Stafford
Dano
Matthias
Brian Strait (everyone else listed played at least most of a season - he only played a few games, but WTF, pro scouting?)
Morrow
Hayes
Beaulieu
Sbisa
Bitetto
Gabe Bourque
Steve Mason
Dahlstrom
Letestu
Shore
Eakin
Shaw
Lewis
Thompson
Pionk
Schmidt
Svechnikov
Gagner
Rittich
Toffoli

Some of these guys were just bodies, but a lot of head-scratching misjudgments on what were supposed to be impact players (Jokinen, Setoguchi, Stafford, Mason, Hayes, Eakin, Pionk, Schmidt, Toffoli).

 

[abax44]

career:
gus: 14 points in 114 games
kupari: 30 points in 158 games

So you're saying they both suck.

 

[Bender Duster]

Fehr
Randy Jones
Glass
Miettinen
Ponikarovsky
Jokinen
Halischuk
Setoguchi
Tangradi
Ellerby
Wright
Peluso - He was a good fighter, just not a good hockey player.
Stafford
Dano
Matthias
Brian Strait (everyone else listed played at least most of a season - he only played a few games, but WTF, pro scouting?)
Morrow
Hayes
Beaulieu
Sbisa
Bitetto
Gabe Bourque
Steve Mason
Dahlstrom
Letestu
Shore
Eakin
Shaw
Lewis
Thompson
Pionk
Schmidt
Svechnikov
Gagner
Rittich
Toffoli

Some of these guys were just bodies, but a lot of head-scratching misjudgments on what were supposed to be impact players (Jokinen, Setoguchi, Stafford, Mason, Hayes, Eakin, Pionk, Schmidt, Toffoli).

That's a long list of names I've yelled at my TV on more than one occasion. Usually followed by "what the &$^@# is he doing?"

In fairness though, some of those guys had decent runs with the team. Glass, Joker, Nate B, Stafford, Schmidtty...

Pionk also had a good year after the trade. He's lost out there now though. His go-to defensive strategy last year was basically: 1. drop stick 2. take holding penalty.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

So you're saying they both suck.

well ..... sortof yeah.

I like Gus at 4C. Good D, a little physicality, hard work and a bit of offense. Kupari is less on each count. I'm not sure he is suited to the 4th line role. He might actually have some usefulness lining up with better players, IDK.

 

[macmaroon]

Fehr
Randy Jones
Glass
Miettinen
Ponikarovsky
Jokinen
Halischuk
Setoguchi
Tangradi
Ellerby
Wright
Peluso - He was a good fighter, just not a good hockey player.
Stafford
Dano
Matthias
Brian Strait (everyone else listed played at least most of a season - he only played a few games, but WTF, pro scouting?)
Morrow
Hayes
Beaulieu
Sbisa
Bitetto
Gabe Bourque
Steve Mason
Dahlstrom
Letestu
Shore
Eakin
Shaw
Lewis
Thompson
Pionk
Schmidt
Svechnikov
Gagner
Rittich
Toffoli

Some of these guys were just bodies, but a lot of head-scratching misjudgments on what were supposed to be impact players (Jokinen, Setoguchi, Stafford, Mason, Hayes, Eakin, Pionk, Schmidt, Toffoli).

Geez, that's a lot of garbage...

 

[KingBogo]

Jets seemed to recognize that in DeMelo. He walked on to the Jets playing over 21 minutes a game. But suddenly the Jets can’t see the DeMelo clone they have been watching for 6 seasons?

I honestly don’t see all these bad evaluations the Jets are making like a lot of you do. Overall I think pro scouting is one of the better things the Jets do.

Overall I agree with you. I think the organization has had a pretty good read on players. My post was more about the wiffs many of us posters have made about player evaluations over the years.

 

[Eyeseeing]

After getting absolutely shit kicked in 5 games in the playoffs for the 2nd year in a row I would say they did fluke out 52 wins last season.

If Helle was not our goalie then we’d be a bubble team year in and year out
Bro had an amazing season last year too.

 

[Flair Hay]

Like the Panthers back up goalie making $4.5m? Or the Oiler paying Nurse $9.25? The Stars paying Seguin $9.85? Benn $9.5m? There is no perfect cap structure in this league.

Iafallo also made I possible to get Vilardi at $3.4.

I guess that's what the word "ideally" was for. I was defending the player lol

My point is that he has on ice value and is worth keeping for us. And he also may be difficult to trade away without adding in a trade because most teams don't have the flexibility we do. So it makes sense on two fronts to keep him.

Thank you for correcting me and showing that no contender's cap is perfect.

 

[Flair Hay]

It also might be a product of our draft position and quality. A lot of these guys are depth replacement level players, so it's really hard to shake the 'one in the hand is worth two in the bush' philosopy.

It's not like the Jets are letting go of or wasting really strong talent. We're letting guys go that we can either replace from waivers or for extremely low cost.

I think the first paragraph is pretty accurate. GMs probably want to have a good read call on a player by the time they hit waiver eligibility. Coaches tend to prefer the veteran they know what they get each night.

I do think there is some value in promoting players internally. The org is pretty good for doing that on the organizational side.

Honestly, I think it's more of a Stanley issue (team vs fan perception) than an organizational flaw.

We lost two cheap, solid bottom pairing calibre guys in part because they still see potential in Stanley in his role.

We were able to sign a guy like Colin Miller for cheap yhough which speaks tp your point.

It doesn't seem likely for Stanley at this point, but you never know.

 

[Flair Hay]

I'm really not sure Chisholm is what the Jets need this year. Heinola would still be a head of him on the depth chart. Stanley probably would have been in the starting lineup. If Pionk and Miller are the PP guys and there one game together on it was good, not sure how a guy like Chishom would contribute

The thing I am watching is if Josh kills penalties to start the season...he's unequivocally the Jets best d-man, does Arniel put him out there in shot blocking situations? This is where Fleury as depth makes sense. If he can play 3+ minutes a night as an effective PKer and stay in the neutral ratio for GF/GA, might get another productive season out of #44. Salomonsson though might give Fleury some competition by the looks of it, on his offside, but I'm not sure he's ready or riding the tide of opportunity.

You have made a really good point recently about how the Jets want PK mins out of the 3rd pair guy. Makes it tougher for those offensive guys to earn a spot if they aren't top four.

I'm not sure if Fleury is actually good at PK or not. I will have to keep an eye on that this year.

Certainly seems like his role to lose once Salomonsson has had his cup of tea and is back on the Moose. At least until Stanley is back anyway?

 

[Jack7222]

Yeah…..there were a lot of Chicken Little’s last preseason too .

Well I wasn't one of those, and I even foolishly hoped the org had turned a corner with what it considered to be its optimal healthy line-up after witnessing our league domination in December.

I'll be happy (and surprised) to be wrong this time however when this line-up leads us to a 100+ point season. I'll be happier (and only slightly less surprised) if a 100+ point season comes on the back of some flexibility in how we deploy our roster

 

[surixon]

I'm really not sure Chisholm is what the Jets need this year. Heinola would still be a head of him on the depth chart. Stanley probably would have been in the starting lineup. If Pionk and Miller are the PP guys and there one game together on it was good, not sure how a guy like Chishom would contribute

The thing I am watching is if Josh kills penalties to start the season...he's unequivocally the Jets best d-man, does Arniel put him out there in shot blocking situations? This is where Fleury as depth makes sense. If he can play 3+ minutes a night as an effective PKer and stay in the neutral ratio for GF/GA, might get another productive season out of #44. Salomonsson though might give Fleury some competition by the looks of it, on his offside, but I'm not sure he's ready or riding the tide of opportunity.

While you a raise a decent point about PK, who's to say you couldn't have Declan kill penalties. Just because he's more offensive doesn't mean he can't kill i.e Arniel wanting KC and Scheifele to kill this year.

What Declan would have brought is speed, retrieval and puck moving. All things that we lacked against the Avs in the playoffs. This org does already has a franchise two way guy in JoMo and has its defensive specialists in DeMelo, Snerg and to a lesser extent Miller. We could use some more mobility and puck movement as Pionk is pretty awful at the puck moving part.

 

[Jet]

I really like Gus and what he brings

Kupari definitely has better tools. Let's see if he can find some sort of toolbox for them... I'm gonna go out on a limb and predict that this will be his best year to date. Not that that says a whole lot lol

The thing that disappointed me about Kupari in TC/ preseason was I was hoping that he would come to camp with something to prove and really push for a spot but all I really saw was more of the same from him.

I still have a glimmer of hope because you see his skillset and size and get excited - but I'm afraid he has a million dollar toolbox and a ten cent head.

While you a raise a decent point about PK, who's to say you couldn't have Declan kill penalties. Just because he's more offensive doesn't mean he can't kill i.e Arniel wanting KC and Scheifele to kill this year.

What Declan would have brought is speed, retrieval and puck moving. All things that we lacked against the Avs in the playoffs. This org does already has a franchise two way guy in JoMo and has its defensive specialists in DeMelo, Snerg and to a lesser extent Miller. We could use some more mobility and puck movement as Pionk is pretty awful at the puck moving part.

Well hopefully Heinola will finally get healthy and we can just let Declan go.

 

[Jet]

I think the first paragraph is pretty accurate. GMs probably want to have a good read call on a player by the time they hit waiver eligibility. Coaches tend to prefer the veteran they know what they get each night.

I do think there is some value in promoting players internally. The org is pretty good for doing that on the organizational side.

Honestly, I think it's more of a Stanley issue (team vs fan perception) than an organizational flaw.

We lost two cheap, solid bottom pairing calibre guys in part because they still see potential in Stanley in his role.

We were able to sign a guy like Colin Miller for cheap yhough which speaks tp your point.

It doesn't seem likely for Stanley at this point, but you never know.

I actually thought Stanley took some big strides (insert 6'7" joke) last season but I think people are so sour on the whole history with him that they couldn't see the tree for the forest.

 

[Jet]

Fehr
Randy Jones
Glass
Miettinen
Ponikarovsky
Jokinen
Halischuk
Setoguchi
Tangradi
Ellerby
Wright
Peluso - He was a good fighter, just not a good hockey player.
Stafford
Dano
Matthias
Brian Strait (everyone else listed played at least most of a season - he only played a few games, but WTF, pro scouting?)
Morrow
Hayes
Beaulieu
Sbisa
Bitetto
Gabe Bourque
Steve Mason
Dahlstrom
Letestu
Shore
Eakin
Shaw
Lewis
Thompson
Pionk
Schmidt
Svechnikov
Gagner
Rittich
Toffoli

Some of these guys were just bodies, but a lot of head-scratching misjudgments on what were supposed to be impact players (Jokinen, Setoguchi, Stafford, Mason, Hayes, Eakin, Pionk, Schmidt, Toffoli).

Absolutely there are a ton of valid names on that list, they're are also some I think you're being pretty unfair to.

Also, I bet all 31 other teams have similar lists - and with some of these guys I think it was worth trying, because sometimes you can polish a turd

However, with some of them we held on far too long.

 

[bumblebeeman]

While you a raise a decent point about PK, who's to say you couldn't have Declan kill penalties. Just because he's more offensive doesn't mean he can't kill i.e Arniel wanting KC and Scheifele to kill this year.

What Declan would have brought is speed, retrieval and puck moving. All things that we lacked against the Avs in the playoffs. This org does already has a franchise two way guy in JoMo and has its defensive specialists in DeMelo, Snerg and to a lesser extent Miller. We could use some more mobility and puck movement as Pionk is pretty awful at the puck moving part.

I'm really hoping Heinola can fill that void when he's back. Another good puck mover would be so good for the team.

 

[Buffdog]

I actually thought Stanley took some big strides (insert 6'7" joke) last season but I think people are so sour on the whole history with him that they couldn't see the tree for the forest.

I thought Stan's regular season play was a stwp forward but the Avs exposed his lack of footspeed in the playoffs