All Things Pegula 2

[OkimLom]

I mean no matter if he said that or not, what f***ing context would make it okay to say such a thing?

A little confused on this. It does matter if he said it or if he didn't.

If he didn't say it, then there's no context besides someone making it up.

If he said it, then yeah, it's not okay to say such a thing no matter the circumstances, but the important part is determining that Terry said it.

 

[DapperCam]

So the timeline is…

1. An NFL employee who is a reporter attends a dinner and hears the racist quote from Pegula.
2. During an NFL reporter group zoom meeting, he/she says that they heard this quote.
3. Trotter who was in that meeting complains to the league/HR
4. The league investigates and interviews everyone at the dinner (presumably including the original NFL reporter that heard the quote?), and Pegula is cleared
5. League tells Trotter that they are investigating and to drop it. He gets annoyed that he never gets an update and considers it sweeping the issue under the rug.
6. Trotter gets fired from the NFL a couple years later.
7. Trotter files a lawsuit saying the league was a racist workplace and includes the quote as supporting evidence.
8. Pegula categorically denies ever saying it

Honestly the whole thing makes no sense to me. How can Trotter include a direct quote in a lawsuit that he never personally heard himself? It would add more weight if the source wasn’t anonymous (maybe they are still an NFL employee).

Not saying the NFL wouldn’t sweep something like this under the rug, but the whole thing is a mess.

 

[zenthusiast]

Trotter's accusation is based on an anonymous source. He didn't personally hear Pegula say it.


Trotter said he first learned of Pegula's comment when another NFL Media reporter mentioned it on a companywide Zoom call in September 2020.

That reporter recalled a conversation during which Pegula spoke about the recent rise in social activism by NFL players and their support for the Black Lives Matter movement, the lawsuit states.
The unidentified reporter shared on the call, according to Trotter's complaint, that Pegula had said: “If the Black players don’t like it here, they should go back to Africa and see how bad it is.”

"This remark was so offensive and racist that the people in the meeting appeared to be frozen, unsure how to even react," Trotter said in the complaint.

A league source told The Buffalo News that the alleged comment was thoroughly investigated, including interviews with Terry and his wife and co-owner, Kim Pegula – who both denied the statement – and every other person at the dinner where this conversation purportedly took place.

Yeah, that’s why it’s an incredibly muddled issue that won’t really have any consequence

 

[Tatanka]

In the years since the first press conference, the Sabres Bills and Pegulas have been pretty consistent in controlling message and messengers. It is highly inconsistent with that history. He may think that way, or not, but I find it hard to believe he would ever utter such a thing in an environment where he couldn’t control the effect of the statement. It is not his style. And I am not the Pegulas biggest fan.

 

[zenthusiast]

In the years since the first press conference, the Sabres Bills and Pegulas have been pretty consistent in controlling message and messengers. It is highly inconsistent with that history. He may think that way, or not, but I find it hard to believe he would ever utter such a thing in an environment where he couldn’t control the effect of the statement. It is not his style. And I am not the Pegulas biggest fan.

To that end I think if he did indeed say it, it’s probably not a matter of him being a secret David Duke type but rather like so many of former eras a man with outmoded ideas and opinions that are offensive to our current understanding. Everyone has that uncle that says inappropriate things, less have an uncle that drops the n word, etc.

 

[Beerz]

To that end I think if he did indeed say it, it’s probably not a matter of him being a secret David Duke type but rather like so many of former eras a man with outmoded ideas and opinions that are offensive to our current understanding. Everyone has that uncle that says inappropriate things, less have an uncle that drops the n word, etc.

Racist people exist therefore he said it.

Wild reasoning.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

Time to distract everyone by announcing the Dahlin and Power extensions

 

[zenthusiast]

Racist people exist therefore he said it.

Wild reasoning.

Look very closely at the sixth word of the post you quoted

 

[Bobby Bottle Service]

This is so out of character for TPegs that if multiple people cannot corroborate, this is bullshit.

 

[Beerz]

Look very closely at the sixth word of the post you quoted

My bad. I totally missed that.

 

[zenthusiast]

My bad. I totally missed that.

All good. I’ve been a bit all over the place on this today so I get it.

 

[Irie]

Trotter's accusation is based on an anonymous source. He didn't personally hear Pegula say it.

Trotter said he first learned of Pegula's comment when another NFL Media reporter mentioned it on a companywide Zoom call in September 2020.

That reporter recalled a conversation during which Pegula spoke about the recent rise in social activism by NFL players and their support for the Black Lives Matter movement, the lawsuit states.
The unidentified reporter shared on the call, according to Trotter's complaint, that Pegula had said: “If the Black players don’t like it here, they should go back to Africa and see how bad it is.”

"This remark was so offensive and racist that the people in the meeting appeared to be frozen, unsure how to even react," Trotter said in the complaint.

A league source told The Buffalo News that the alleged comment was thoroughly investigated, including interviews with Terry and his wife and co-owner, Kim Pegula – who both denied the statement – and every other person at the dinner where this conversation purportedly took place.

The zoom call portion of this story strikes me as highly unlikely.

The one underlying constant in our society is that people talk.

If someone made this accusation on a media company's company-wide zoom call, the chances of that person being able to maintain their anonymity through all of this is super slim, imo.

Can anyone else on the "company-wide" zoom call corroborate that the anonymous source made the accusations? If so then there would not be a case of no one recalling the statement having been made. There would be a clear case of someone making the claim of having heard the statement reported by multiple sources.

something doesn't add up.

 

[Gras]

Trotter's accusation is based on an anonymous source. He didn't personally hear Pegula say it.


Trotter said he first learned of Pegula's comment when another NFL Media reporter mentioned it on a companywide Zoom call in September 2020.

That reporter recalled a conversation during which Pegula spoke about the recent rise in social activism by NFL players and their support for the Black Lives Matter movement, the lawsuit states.
The unidentified reporter shared on the call, according to Trotter's complaint, that Pegula had said: “If the Black players don’t like it here, they should go back to Africa and see how bad it is.”

"This remark was so offensive and racist that the people in the meeting appeared to be frozen, unsure how to even react," Trotter said in the complaint.

A league source told The Buffalo News that the alleged comment was thoroughly investigated, including interviews with Terry and his wife and co-owner, Kim Pegula – who both denied the statement – and every other person at the dinner where this conversation purportedly took place.

If we've learned anything over the last 8 yeas is that anonymous sources are usually bullshit.

 

[Djp]

He doesn't need to have it on recording for it to be true. You sound like sleezy defense lawyer who doesn't care what actually happened.

Remember

— innocent until proven guilty.
— 3rd party stuff is hearsay snd does not make a case. Thr primary source needs to come forward
— you can take things out of contra et easily and recall only what you want to.

I could say something in a sarcasting manner but if the sarcasm is removed and context removed it can mean something very different.

he also doesn’t have a reputation of this unless others come forward. It’s a wait and see.

this could have played a part in team management split in case the league forced him to sell. He had a warning shot on this for some time trying to get a deal done before filing ( dont recall that ever happening…..)

 

[Zman5778]

The zoom call portion of this story strikes me as highly unlikely.

The one underlying constant in our society is that people talk.

If someone made this accusation on a media company's company-wide zoom call, the chances of that person being able to maintain their anonymity through all of this is super slim, imo.

Can anyone else on the "company-wide" zoom call corroborate that the anonymous source made the accusations? If so then there would not be a case of no one recalling the statement having been made. There would be a clear case of someone making the claim of having heard the statement reported by multiple sources.

something doesn't add up.

The something that doesn't add up is that Trotter didn't hear the quote himself. He heard it from someone who heard it at some dinner/meeting. And when the NFL contacted the people who were with Pegula that night, none of them corroborated anything.

I've generally respected Trotter as a writer and reporter.......but this really strikes me as hearsay at its "finest".

 

[Irie]

The something that doesn't add up is that Trotter didn't hear the quote himself. He heard it from someone who heard it at some dinner/meeting. And when the NFL contacted the people who were with Pegula that night, none of them corroborated anything.

I've generally respected Trotter as a writer and reporter.......but this really strikes me as hearsay at its "finest".

That is my point. The issue you just described makes the story somewhat questionable, but if no one can even corroborate something.that was supposedly said on a company-wide zoom call, we start to get into a "poorly thought out fiction" category.

Wouldn't any of his colleagues come to his defense and say, "yeah, I heard the accusations on that zoom call too!"?

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

Remember

— innocent until proven guilty.
— 3rd party stuff is hearsay snd does not make a case. Thr primary source needs to come forward
— you can take things out of contra et easily and recall only what you want to.

I could say something in a sarcasting manner but if the sarcasm is removed and context removed it can mean something very different.

he also doesn’t have a reputation of this unless others come forward. It’s a wait and see.

this could have played a part in team management split in case the league forced him to sell. He had a warning shot on this for some time trying to get a deal done before filing ( dont recall that ever happening…..)

All of this is perfectly reasonable, but I think he just wanted to call me sleezy, and not have to acknowledge the counter argument or apologize.

 

[Husko]

I very much hope that what Pegula is quoted as saying is false. And provably false.

And, as @Husko will probably remind us, innocent until proven guilty.

With the caveat of course that no one is obligated to apply the heightened legal protections for criminal defendants at risk of losing their liberty to folks being accused in the court of public opinion.

That said, we have no way of knowing the truth here, at least not now. Not giving this much thought now, because what's there even to do other than wildly speculate?

 

[Husko]

He doesn't need to have it on recording for it to be true. You sound like sleezy defense lawyer who doesn't care what actually happened.

There's nothing sleezy about being a defense lawyer.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

There's nothing sleezy about being a defense lawyer.

Well, let's not say "nothing"...kidding...mostly...

 

[brian_griffin]

The something that doesn't add up is that Trotter didn't hear the quote himself. He heard it from someone who heard it at some dinner/meeting. And when the NFL contacted the people who were with Pegula that night, none of them corroborated anything.

I've generally respected Trotter as a writer and reporter.......but this really strikes me as hearsay at its "finest".

I've held jobs for over 40 years and over 30 years with my long-term employer. I would never bring an allegation against anyone, colleague, rival, or foe, which I didn't personally hear, witness, or be asked to participate in. And I wouldn't bring any second-hand situations either, and would counsel anyone who came to me with such stories or allegations of wrongdoing to be very clear of what is first-hand and second-hand knowledge / participation vs. hearsay. My employer's anonymous hotlines and direct reporting channels have similar guidelines.

There's nothing sleezy about being a defense lawyer.

But anyone can be sleazy not sleezy. (I'm being sarcastic about the spelling, not about the personal character of you / your colleagues.

FYI - can't remember if I ever PM'ed you, but my niece (from Oklahoma) graduated Vanderbilt law in May'23, interned with the Bronx PubDef office in 2022 summer, took the NYS bar in Buffalo end of July), and has a job with the Brooklyn PubDef office.

===============
To the board (Husko knows the following):
Remember, in the United States, the legal system is designed and hopefully administered so that guilty or not-fully-innocent people knowingly either go free, unpunished, or less severely punished to avoid the "worse sin" of convicting / punishing innocent people.

In quality control lingo, that's the difference between a Type 1 error / alpha risk vs. a type 2 error / beta risk. And the application of that in law is in some ways the opposite of what is done in manufacturing, medical field, etc. In manufacturing and medical field the approach is to knowingly throw away good product to avoid passing a defective or non-compliant product to the customer.

The American justice system (should by design) be willing to risk letting guilty people "go free" in order to avoid the worse error of convicting & punishing the innocent or less than fully guilty.

 

[Dirty Dog]

You’re citing a burden of proof, which I assumed was associated with the civil action at the center of the matter. If you’re saying that standard is necessary for forming one’s opinions in everyday life I simply disagree

Of course you aren’t bound by legal burdens of proof. But what you’re suggesting is accepting an allegation as true without waiting for any facts or evidence to come out, right? Which, why? I don’t get why people do that. That type of thinking will fail you quite a bit.

I may have totally misunderstood, but that’s the vibe I got from your posts. My point is none of us have any idea of what happened, and no facts or evidence has come out yet (if ever)

 

[Gras]

There's nothing sleezy about being a defense lawyer.

Isn't being sleazy one of the requirements to being a lawyer in general.

 

[HOOats]

Man, I really missed the banal madness of Summer 2020. Fun to relitigate it through the lens of Terry Pegula and a juicy civil lawsuit full of hearsay.

I don't 100% doubt that Terry might think something warped like that after signing a billion dollars of cheques over to black athletes over the decade. I do doubt he'd say it outside of his closest inner circle.

 

[Gras]

Of course you aren’t bound by legal burdens of proof. But what you’re suggesting is accepting an allegation as true without waiting for any facts or evidence to come out, right? Which, why? I don’t get why people do that. That type of thinking will fail you quite a bit.

I may have totally misunderstood, but that’s the vibe I got from your posts. My point is none of us have any idea of what happened, and no facts or evidence has come out yet (if ever)

Some people will automatically latch on to things that match their worldview or can purportedly further their cause regardless of what the actual truth may be.