All Purpose Trade/Roster Building Thread XIII - the 23 deadline approaches

[Nikishin Go Boom]

Doesn’t Chatfield have more year on his deal (1-way)?

yes.

we signed him to a 1 year gig for 21-22. Then a couple of months later extended him for 2 more years through 23-24.

 

[bleedgreen]

Right, which is why I’m not going to discount the possibility of Morrow playing in the bigs next year (assuming he signs) but think it far more likely he spends a good amount if not all of his first pro season in the AHL.

I think he has the ability to run an NHL PP today. Question is how many goals get scored against him the 10 or so mins of 5-5 he’d get if he made the team next year.

Yup. I can’t see Rod choosing him over Chatfield even if he’s great on the pp. I think Rod very much prefers guys playing on their strong side so I don’t see Chatfield moving over there long term just to fit the kid in. It’s easy for us to see the need on the 2pp for an offensive type but Rod sees it as he always sees it. Next guy in line that he already trusts defensively gets the gig, like Skjei or Pesce.

It’ll be interesting to see Morrow navigate these waters if he’s indeed good enough offensively but needs some growth defensively. He’ll be better than Fleury and therefore not so easy to dismiss, but Rod wants guys who play physical while being responsible on that third pair and Morrow likely won’t ever be one of those guys. How does he make it? Likely through attrition as guys on the top two pairs move on eventually.

That makes him trade bait imo, as he’s probably two or three years out and we wants the wins now.

 

[AD Skinner]

The thing about lindholm that I guess we’ll never really know but I always come back to, is does he become the player he became without the change of scenery? Maybe it’s sour grapes but I kind of think not.

 

[bleedgreen]

AH FUDGE...Yup, somehow missed him on capfriendly and was thinking this year was his last year on that deal he got. But still, if he can't beat out Chatfield he probably doesn't belong in the NHL yet. And after that Chat/Pesce expire, year after Burns is 100% gone...so there's plenty of upward mobility on the right side

I don’t think he can beat out Chatfield defensively very easily, which is what he’ll be judged on over creative outlet passes and sweet dangles through nuetral zone.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

At best, Morrow proves a lot in black ace practice during the playoffs and is physically ready for training camp. He is a short term Wolf for the 23-24 season and then plays 60 games or so for the Canes.

 

[bleedgreen]

The thing about lindholm that I guess we’ll never really know but I always come back to, is does he become the player he became without the change of scenery? Maybe it’s sour grapes but I kind of think not.

I think he does improve the same way here. He’s a passer, and a great complimentary player to others with skill. As the team skill improved his offensive numbers would’ve. I think he’s playing the same exact game he played here, with the same amount of improvement year to year that most higher end players go through. He’s stronger and worked on his shot. He could’ve done both here.

I didn’t think he became a different player at all when he left. He’s the same guy he was when he left, only a little stronger with more experience….and much better linemates.

 

[mikeyfan]

I have no problem trading Morrow for a Meier or Larkin because we know both of those players are proven TOP NHL’ers, we only THINK Morrow will be a TOP NHL’er. After all didn’t we believe we had that elite Defenseman when we drafted Jake Bean, Noah Hanifan, Hayden Fluery and Ryan Murphy?

 

[Svechhammer]

Yup. I can’t see Rod choosing him over Chatfield even if he’s great on the pp. I think Rod very much prefers guys playing on their strong side so I don’t see Chatfield moving over there long term just to fit the kid in. It’s easy for us to see the need on the 2pp for an offensive type but Rod sees it as he always sees it. Next guy in line that he already trusts defensively gets the gig, like Skjei or Pesce.

It’ll be interesting to see Morrow navigate these waters if he’s indeed good enough offensively but needs some growth defensively. He’ll be better than Fleury and therefore not so easy to dismiss, but Rod wants guys who play physical while being responsible on that third pair and Morrow likely won’t ever be one of those guys. How does he make it? Likely through attrition as guys on the top two pairs move on eventually.

That makes him trade bait imo, as he’s probably two or three years out and we wants the wins now.

I agree with a lot of this and I'm glad you're saying it because I've been thinking that for a while. If someone like Fleury didn't work here, I'm not sure someone like Morrow will, at least not in our contention window. Nikishin's profile appears to be someone who could step in next year and contribute physically, which I think makes him more valuable internally, but Morrow has the higher offensive upside, so I think that makes him more valuable externally.

If the return is for an extended Meier, I'm thinking something like Jarvis, Morrow, and a 1st (and maybe throw in a lower pick or mid level prospect, to sweeten, if needed) is something that both sides might be interested in.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

I agree with a lot of this and I'm glad you're saying it because I've been thinking that for a while. If someone like Fleury didn't work here, I'm not sure someone like Morrow will, at least not in our contention window. Nikishin's profile appears to be someone who could step in next year and contribute physically, which I think makes him more valuable internally, but Morrow has the higher offensive upside, so I think that makes him more valuable externally.

If the return is for an extended Meier, I'm thinking something like Jarvis, Morrow, and a 1st (and maybe throw in a lower pick or mid level prospect, to sweeten, if needed) is something that both sides might be interested in.

I don’t think Meier goes for that much. The majority of teams cant afford him long term, including NJ. NJ would have to use Meier as a fall back to Bratt not wanting to re-sign. They will turn into Edmonton really quickly with all the offensive money, a weak defense, and no goalie.

 

[SlavinAway]

If the return is for an extended Meier, I'm thinking something like Jarvis, Morrow, and a 1st (and maybe throw in a lower pick or mid level prospect, to sweeten, if needed) is something that both sides might be interested in.

I don’t think Meier goes for that much. The majority of teams cant afford him long term, including NJ. NJ would have to use Meier as a fall back to Bratt not wanting to re-sign. They will turn into Edmonton really quickly with all the offensive money, a weak defense, and no goalie.

I agree he doesn't get Jarvis and Morrow. My thought is the top two pieces would be:

Jarvis/Nikishin/Morrow

+

1st/Drury

 

[bleedgreen]

I agree with a lot of this and I'm glad you're saying it because I've been thinking that for a while. If someone like Fleury didn't work here, I'm not sure someone like Morrow will, at least not in our contention window. Nikishin's profile appears to be someone who could step in next year and contribute physically, which I think makes him more valuable internally, but Morrow has the higher offensive upside, so I think that makes him more valuable externally.

If the return is for an extended Meier, I'm thinking something like Jarvis, Morrow, and a 1st (and maybe throw in a lower pick or mid level prospect, to sweeten, if needed) is something that both sides might be interested in.

I agree Nikishin is a better team fit for Rod, especially on the third pair. Would he choose a rookie like Nikishin over someone like a Dehaan or his eventual replacement? Another interesting thing to watch when it happens. I think Nikishin plays his contract out and comes over with the NHL or KHL mindset. More pressure for Rod to use him, but he’ll have years of KHL time served which maybe makes him less of a rookie in Rod‘s eyes.

I don’t know about the trade values. When I see the offers you and others put out I just see more value leaving than I’m used to seeing leave in actual trades. If Jarvis and a first go, I think the prospect could be a lesser one or a handful of them over Morrow or Nikishin….but we’ll see soon enough. Jarvis is cost controlled and we really need him that way, I think he stays until he needs a contract at least. I think not everyone can fit Meier’s new contract in, I’d be surprised if it takes that high a return.…it’s fun to watch and find out.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

trading a young, top 6 roster player for an upgrade is an off-season move. that isnt a popular thing mid season, if at all.

 

[Svechhammer]

I don’t think Meier goes for that much. The majority of teams cant afford him long term, including NJ. NJ would have to use Meier as a fall back to Bratt not wanting to re-sign. They will turn into Edmonton really quickly with all the offensive money, a weak defense, and no goalie.

If this is the case, then we need to be the ones coming away with Meier when this is all said and done. If Jarvis + Morrow + 1st + someone like Rees or a 3rd round pick is probably too much, then we have all the pieces necessary to make that kind of move in a way that we can be comfortable making.

 

[Svechhammer]

trading a young, top 6 roster player for an upgrade is an off-season move. that isnt a popular thing mid season, if at all.

I'm not sure Jarvis is a top 6 player for us with Meier. I'm also of the impression that Jarvis was not going to stay in the top 6 for very long with a healthy Patches and would have been playing 4th line mins by the playoffs with Patches-Aho-Turbo being the top line.

 

[bleedgreen]

If this is the case, then we need to be the ones coming away with Meier when this is all said and done. If Jarvis + Morrow + 1st + someone like Rees or a 3rd round pick is probably too much, then we have all the pieces necessary to make that kind of move in a way that we can be comfortable making.

We can pull the trade off, no doubt. There’s been some whispers we’ve looked at the guy, so maybe we‘d consider it. The contract it’ll take, and the way we generally work. I just don’t know man.

Jarvis is cost controlled cheap labor until his contract is up. That’s pretty valuable to a team like us. Doesnt matter where he plays, it’s elc prices.

 

[FlyingSquirrels]

Has Rod ever developed an offensively gifted defenseman?
Hamilton, TDA and Burns all earned their chops elsewhere.

Don't think he has the patience or trust to do so. We'll see how the Morrow thing plays out. But our MO is to acquire that player, and that player has already flattened out the growth curve.

 

[CanesFanBudMan]

Has Rod ever developed an offensively gifted defenseman?
Hamilton, TDA and Burns all earned their chops elsewhere.

Don't think he has the patience or trust to do so. We'll see how the Morrow thing plays out. But our MO is to acquire that player, and that player has already flattened out the growth curve.

To be fair rods never really developed a defenseman at all

 

[spockBokk]

I’ll repeat the sentiment about Jarvis…if he’s traded, it will become a regret.

A combination of futures (Morrow/Nikishin/1st/Drury/etc) should be what’s offered up for Meier. No roster player needed going the other direction with the cap they have available.

I’d model it after the Fiala trade (Faber + 1st) in offering Morrow/Nikishin + 1st and probably need to add another prospect. Would rather not trade Morrow.

 

[Svechhammer]

We can pull the trade off, no doubt. There’s been some whispers we’ve looked at the guy, so maybe we‘d consider it. The contract it’ll take, and the way we generally work. I just don’t know man.

When it comes to the way we've been dealing with contracts, I'm not sure we all know the full profile we're willing to utilize. This front office strikes me as the patient poker player who is willing to sit out of the craziness for most of the game, happy to win a bunch of small pots to keep their winnings growing, just waiting for that one perfect hand to go all in. We were in on Tkachuk last year, we've been in Tarasenko before, and we were in on O'Reilly. We didn't pay Dougie full market value because we internally value defensive defensemen more than puck movers, who seem to be all the rage right now, and rightfully identified that his numbers could be mitigated elsewhere. But an elite forward? We've been rumored to be chasing that big catch for a while, and I suspect we'll be more than willing to pay the market rate if we can get one in the fold. And Meier comes with a QO and will be an RFA when his contract is up, so we'd still have leverage to get him longer term.

I dunno, it just feels like we're getting close to the moment we shoot our shot to make the blockbuster trade that vaults us to the next level.

 

[MadeUpName]

If Jarvis goes then he is the premium piece. Carolina keeps Morrow, Drury and Nikishin in that case.

Based on SJ fans expectations they do not expect Jarvis or Mercer to be available at all. Much less adding 2-3 good assets on top.

 

[Svechhammer]

Has Rod ever developed an offensively gifted defenseman?
Hamilton, TDA and Burns all earned their chops elsewhere.

Don't think he has the patience or trust to do so. We'll see how the Morrow thing plays out. But our MO is to acquire that player, and that player has already flattened out the growth curve.

I mean if you really think of it, there is no shortage of offensive defensemen in the league. Yes, there is a whole wide range of how good they can be, but defensive play over the last 2 decades has really trended toward puck movers and guys who put up points rather than stay at home guys who keep pucks away from the net. I think our strategy is to go out and get those defensive defensemen, which tend to be undervalued by the rest of the league, knowing there should be enough leftovers in FA to get a cheaper offensive defenseman once the chaos settles.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

Has Rod ever developed an offensively gifted defenseman?
Hamilton, TDA and Burns all earned their chops elsewhere.

Don't think he has the patience or trust to do so. We'll see how the Morrow thing plays out. But our MO is to acquire that player, and that player has already flattened out the growth curve.

How many has he had the opportunity to develop?

Fleury it was about constant effort. He didn’t compete as much as he should. His offense didn’t translate well either.
Bean? Dude plays small and his shot is only okay. we’re trying to win now, not really nurture his want to play more than he had earned, and not a lot was elite about him. Bean is a less angry and less aggressive TDA. Playmaker, passes well, and is okay at defense. Bean would have done okay next to Slavin but would have been beaten up in the playoffs.
Who else really? Murphy plays smaller than Bean and his offense never progressed.

Morrow has a better shot and has elite playmaking tendencies (I didn’t say he is elite). Also morrow is already bigger than Bean at 4.5 years younger. Will he play bigger? Tbd.

 

[chaz4hockey]

I'm not sure Jarvis is a top 6 player for us with Meier. I'm also of the impression that Jarvis was not going to stay in the top 6 for very long with a healthy Patches and would have been playing 4th line mins by the playoffs with Patches-Aho-Turbo being the top line.

Jarvis needs to play with a rugged winger that will do a good part of the board dirty work. He is somewhat miscast when playing with Aho-TT and as such he becomes the defacto board guy.

 

[DaveG]

The thing about lindholm that I guess we’ll never really know but I always come back to, is does he become the player he became without the change of scenery? Maybe it’s sour grapes but I kind of think not.

depends on if he would have gotten the opportunities he did in Calgary here. I doubt he is given the wing on the Aho-Teravainen line the way Ferland was, and when he was here he was stapled to Staal since that was the 2nd line under Peters, not sure if that changes or if Rod gives him the chance he had been looking for to play center and we roll something like:

UFA - Aho - Teravainen
Svech - Lindholm - Williams
Marty - Staal - McGinn
Foegele - Rask - Wallmark

before making the Rask for Nino trade.

 

[Borsig]

I'd rather move KK than Jarvis... I think