All Purpose Trade/Roster Building Thread XIII - the 23 deadline approaches

[MadeUpName]

Old ass Couture for roster players and we would be stuck with him at a high dollar value til he's 38?

Good God, no.

Our problem is a lack of top end scoring. Stop trying to shove bargain bin or expensive years past their prime vets on us. We aren't trading a KK or Jarvis for anything less than a top end player in the early stages of their prime.

Also, Jarvis as a 2C? What, do you just want us to get physically bullied down the middle for years on end, cause that's how that happens. He's a winger in the NHL, an undersized one at that who gets gets absolutely blown off the puck regularly with routine checks. He'd get physically dominated at C.

Nobody offered Jarvis for anything.

Our problem is scoring in the Playoffs. You are whining about the possibility of acquiring a player with 45 goals in his past 100 Playoff games. A player on the same regular season pace right now as Andrei Svechnikov.

"Expensive years past their prime vets" seems to be the exact market Carolina is in if Pacioretty and Burns are any indication.

Then the irony of then complaining about Jarvis not being physical enough for 2C when Couture is one of the toughest 2Cs in the league. Couture would be a dominant Playoff addition for Carolina for their window.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

Nobody offered Jarvis for anything.

Our problem is scoring in the Playoffs. You are whining about the possibility of acquiring a player with 45 goals in his past 100 Playoff games. A player on the same regular season pace right now as Andrei Svechnikov.

"Expensive years past their prime vets" seems to be the exact market Carolina is in if Pacioretty and Burns are any indication.

Then the irony of then complaining about Jarvis not being physical enough for 2C when Couture is one of the toughest 2Cs in the league. Couture would be a dominant Playoff addition for Carolina for their window.

you are using metrics from when he was 28 and younger in the playoffs. We arent talking about the last 5 seasons. We are talking 5 seasons ago and the 5 seasons before that.

 

[MadeUpName]

you are using metrics from when he was 28 and younger in the playoffs. We arent talking about the last 5 seasons. We are talking 5 seasons ago and the 5 seasons before that.

To be fair it isn't for lack of trying. SJ has just been bad for 3 years.

His regular stats are as good as they have ever been so I don't see any reason to suspect a significant dropoff.

We could limit the sample size to his most recent Playoff with 14 goals and 20 points in 20 games at 30 years old to cut out some noise.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

If we believe Jarvis, Nikishin, and Morrow are going to help carry us over the next decade towards playoff glory, then I have no problem going bargain shopping for our 2C or goal scorer. Going to get a 34 year old with 4 more years isnt going to help us. We need someone with 2 years after this season or less on his deal.

I think Bertuzzi is our next LW gamble in the off-season. I dont see anyone giving him a long term deal. I could see us swoop in and give him a 1 year higher dollar deal to let him recoup his value. So getting a rental at goal scorer for cheap isnt a big deal. Honestly I see us throwing a low cost deal out there for JVR, Bertuzzi and likely Barbashev and see who accepts at the nth hour.

 

[Svechhammer]

If we believe Jarvis, Nikishin, and Morrow are going to help carry us over the next decade towards playoff glory, then I have no problem going bargain shopping for our 2C or goal scorer. Going to get a 34 year old with 4 more years isnt going to help us. We need someone with 2 years after this season or less on his deal.

I think Bertuzzi is our next LW gamble in the off-season. I dont see anyone giving him a long term deal. I could see us swoop in and give him a 1 year higher dollar deal to let him recoup his value. So getting a rental at goal scorer for cheap isnt a big deal. Honestly I see us throwing a low cost deal out there for JVR, Bertuzzi and likely Barbashev and see who accepts at the nth hour.

As much as I do like Jarvis, Nikishin and Morrow, I don't think any of them solve what I consider to be our biggest problem. That is, we don't have a legitimate top end scoring talent. We don't have a consistent shoot first player who can pick a corner. We have a boatload of playmakers with top tier passing ability which does lead to a lot of goals in the regular season, but we lack a consistent shooter. And as talented as Jarvis is, I don't think he's going to be that kind of player for us, I think he's more in the playmaker profile than a sniper. That's part of the reason why I am so willing to trade him for someone like Meier (assuming he comes with an extension).

If we are assured that Nikishin is coming over, I don't think I'm willing to move him at all. While I'm pretty sure his offensive numbers probably won't convert to the NHL, he hits like a freight train and that's something we have been needing for a long time. Morrow appears to be the real deal as well, and if they both pan out, we could have a decent transition plan in place after Burns while keeping the blue like affordable while remaining in our contention window. I'm not sure I want to mess that up, at least not now.

With a potential Jarvis for Meier trade, you're talking about an immediate upgrade to our forward lines while adding a legitimately physical player who is willing to shoot first. Its the perfect fit for what our team needs not just now but for the next 5+ years. Its a trade that makes perfect sense for us, and if ever there was a time to pull the trigger on the kind of big deal we have been involved with in the past, its now.

 

[Borsig]

Jarvis is really young to let go - Imagine if we had let Necas go.

 

[WreckingCrew]

As much as I do like Jarvis, Nikishin and Morrow, I don't think any of them solve what I consider to be our biggest problem. That is, we don't have a legitimate top end scoring talent. We don't have a consistent shoot first player who can pick a corner. We have a boatload of playmakers with top tier passing ability which does lead to a lot of goals in the regular season, but we lack a consistent shooter. And as talented as Jarvis is, I don't think he's going to be that kind of player for us, I think he's more in the playmaker profile than a sniper. That's part of the reason why I am so willing to trade him for someone like Meier (assuming he comes with an extension).

If we are assured that Nikishin is coming over, I don't think I'm willing to move him at all. While I'm pretty sure his offensive numbers probably won't convert to the NHL, he hits like a freight train and that's something we have been needing for a long time. Morrow appears to be the real deal as well, and if they both pan out, we could have a decent transition plan in place after Burns while keeping the blue like affordable while remaining in our contention window. I'm not sure I want to mess that up, at least not now.

With a potential Jarvis for Meier trade, you're talking about an immediate upgrade to our forward lines while adding a legitimately physical player who is willing to shoot first. Its the perfect fit for what our team needs not just now but for the next 5+ years. Its a trade that makes perfect sense for us, and if ever there was a time to pull the trigger on the kind of big deal we have been involved with in the past, its now.

This is the reason Meier is one of the few pieces I'd be willing to give up Jarvis for, and I really have no desire to give Jarvis up because he shows flashes of some elite hands and playmaking...I think he could really break out if he wasn't constantly getting hammered along the boards because our whole team is Charmin-soft.

Nikishin and Morrow should be close to untouchable because they look like they have top 4 potential right around the time we'll have to start making tough decisions about our defensive future (Burns WILL be gone and we could be looking at more expensive or losing Skjei/Pesce)

 

[Stickpucker]

I miss the old thread.

It had a long life...but it was a good thread.

RIP.

 

[Svechhammer]

Jarvis is really young to let go - Imagine if we had let Necas go.

On the other side, imagine if we didn't flip Hanifin for Hamilton

 

[MinJaBen]

Morrow appears to be the real deal as well, and if they both pan out, we could have a decent transition plan in place after Burns while keeping the blue like affordable while remaining in our contention window. I'm not sure I want to mess that up, at least not now.

I don't think Morrow will sign with us, frankly. He had a great freshman season and was offered a contract to play when we had a legitimate opening on the 3rd pair right side the next season. He decided not to sign. Now, we have four RHD under contract for next year, and the top three of them have all played great. I think the kid is smart enough to see that his chances of supplanting any of them in Rod's eyes are less than the chances of a snowball on the 4th of July. I see no reason he doesn't Fox us. I'd move him now in any opportunity to get a difference maker.

I still have concerns that Nikishin will come over, but at least as far as KHL prospects go, we hold the rights forever, so we have time to burn.

 

[Borsig]

On the other side, imagine if we didn't flip Hanifin for Hamilton

Eh. I'd rather have Lindholm still. Hanafin IDC about. Ferland was a rental. he 2 second rounders were the most valueable assets from that trade. The only one thats played NHL is Kochetkov and IDK if that was the NYR pick or not.

 

[Svechhammer]

Eh. I'd rather have Lindholm still. Hanafin IDC about. Ferland was a rental. he 2 second rounders were the most valueable assets from that trade. The only one thats played NHL is Kochetkov and IDK if that was the NYR pick or not.

the Kochetkov pick was a part of the Skinner trade, as was Nikishin, I believe

I don't think Morrow will sign with us, frankly. He had a great freshman season and was offered a contract to play when we had a legitimate opening on the 3rd pair right side the next season. He decided not to sign. Now, we have four RHD under contract for next year, and the top three of them have all played great. I think the kid is smart enough to see that his chances of supplanting any of them in Rod's eyes are less than the chances of a snowball on the 4th of July. I see no reason he doesn't Fox us. I'd move him now in any opportunity to get a difference maker.

I still have concerns that Nikishin will come over, but at least as far as KHL prospects go, we hold the rights forever, so we have time to burn.

Yeah, that too. If we are worried that Morrow will Fox us or that Nikishin will never come over to NA, then it absolutely makes sense to include them in a big game hunt for the elite offensive talent we desperately need. Personally, I don't think that's the case with either, in the era of NIL in college he probably has better training facilities there than he would in the AHL, so it makes sense to stay the extra year to keep upping his value, and I think Nikishin is doing the same, just in the KHL.... But, its possible either could happen.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

I don't think Morrow will sign with us, frankly. He had a great freshman season and was offered a contract to play when we had a legitimate opening on the 3rd pair right side the next season. He decided not to sign. Now, we have four RHD under contract for next year, and the top three of them have all played great. I think the kid is smart enough to see that his chances of supplanting any of them in Rod's eyes are less than the chances of a snowball on the 4th of July. I see no reason he doesn't Fox us. I'd move him now in any opportunity to get a difference maker.

I still have concerns that Nikishin will come over, but at least as far as KHL prospects go, we hold the rights forever, so we have time to burn.

I highly doubt we offered him a real shot at playing 3RD after his freshman season. I would put my bottom dollar on we told him he could learn to play defense and our system for the Wolves. He chose the likely better accommodations of UMASS hockey instead of the AHL. College, chance to play in Europe for 2 games, increase his first contract value and signing bonuses, and likely shorten his time from college to the NHL.

 

[bleedgreen]

I don't think Morrow will sign with us, frankly. He had a great freshman season and was offered a contract to play when we had a legitimate opening on the 3rd pair right side the next season. He decided not to sign. Now, we have four RHD under contract for next year, and the top three of them have all played great. I think the kid is smart enough to see that his chances of supplanting any of them in Rod's eyes are less than the chances of a snowball on the 4th of July. I see no reason he doesn't Fox us. I'd move him now in any opportunity to get a difference maker.

I still have concerns that Nikishin will come over, but at least as far as KHL prospects go, we hold the rights forever, so we have time to burn.

Well it’s possible he…. like our coach surely would’ve….. realized there was no way in hell that kid was getting a third pair gig on our team this year and didn’t sign because of that while thinking it was better being the most popular kid in the world at Umass rather than toiling away in the minor leagues.

sorry... @Gocanes0506 already said it.

 

[spockBokk]

I don’t think there’s any reason to worry about Morrow pulling an “Adam Fox” at this point. If he doesn’t sign after his season is up in a month or 2, then yes, I’ll worry. But, until then, he’s given no indication otherwise and conceivably, he could be in the NHL next year.

If he can hold his own defensively, I see so reason why he couldn’t play on the 3rd pair with Chatfield shifting to the left. That would actually work out well as that 3rd pair would cost less than $2M against the cap.

I don’t think it’s likely he starts next season in the NHL, but you never know. He likely already is aware he’ll need some time in the minors learning how to defend against men. He’d be in a good spot I’d say signing this year, get a few AHL games in, maybe even an NHL game or 2, be a black ace for the playoff run. True, there are 3 NHL RD signed for next year, but Pesce and Chatfield only have 1 more year left and Burns will inevitably start to decline. There’s a spot for Morrow if he earns it.

 

[bleedgreen]

Eh. I'd rather have Lindholm still. Hanafin IDC about. Ferland was a rental. he 2 second rounders were the most valueable assets from that trade. The only one thats played NHL is Kochetkov and IDK if that was the NYR pick or not.

When we made the trade I was pretty upset about the Lindy aspect, but understood it was what we needed to do so the defense could be a contenders group. Seeing how keeping Dougie beyond his contract wasn’t a priority and that we generally feel we can replace that spot one way or another (”you can always buy d…”) year to year I do wish that trade had been consummated without Lindy. Maybe Hanifin plus for Dougie alone. Having a long term two way 2C in the same age group as the rest who can win draws as a righty would be really helpful right now, and we could’ve had Tony/Burns anyways.

 

[Borsig]

When we made the trade I was pretty upset about the Lindy aspect, but understood it was what we needed to do so the defense could be a contenders group. Seeing how keeping Dougie beyond his contract wasn’t a priority and that we generally feel we can replace that spot one way or another (”you can always buy d…”) year to year I do wish that trade had been consummated without Lindy. Maybe Hanifin plus for Dougie alone. Having a long term two way 2C in the same age group as the rest who can win draws as a righty would be really helpful right now, and we could’ve had Tony/Burns anyways.

We would not be having these center conversations if we hadn't given Lindholm away. That trade has ALWAYS chapped my ass. Dougie was soft, and over priced. I know how many here worshipped him but -

 

[bleedgreen]

I don’t think there’s any reason to worry about Morrow pulling an “Adam Fox” at this point. If he doesn’t sign after his season is up in a month or 2, then yes, I’ll worry. But, until then, he’s given no indication otherwise and conceivably, he could be in the NHL next year.

If he can hold his own defensively, I see so reason why he couldn’t play on the 3rd pair with Chatfield shifting to the left. That would actually work out well as that 3rd pair would cost less than $2M against the cap.

I don’t think it’s likely he starts next season in the NHL, but you never know. He likely already is aware he’ll need some time in the minors learning how to defend against men. He’d be in a good spot I’d say signing this year, get a few AHL games in, maybe even an NHL game or 2, be a black ace for the playoff run. True, there are 3 NHL RD signed for next year, but Pesce and Chatfield only have 1 more year left and Burns will inevitably start to decline. There’s a spot for Morrow if he earns it.

I’d be fall off my seat surprised if Morrow passed Rod’s test for a third pair spot next year. I’ve been assuming the whole time he’s doing a year or two in the minors. Morrow is a top 4 guy or bust imo for Rod, which will be tough to do right? Maybe Waddell can pressure Rod or something but a rookie, offense first type who is immature defensively (even at the NCAA level at times) is not Rod‘s MO for the third pair…. or the team in general imo.

 

[spockBokk]

I’d be fall off my seat surprised if Morrow passed Rod’s test for a third pair spot next year. I’ve been assuming the whole time he’s doing a year or two in the minors. Morrow is a top 4 guy or bust imo for Rod, which will be tough to do right? Maybe Waddell can pressure Rod or something but a rookie, offense first type who is immature defensively (even at the NCAA level at times) is not Rod‘s MO for the third pair…. or the team in general imo.

Right, which is why I’m not going to discount the possibility of Morrow playing in the bigs next year (assuming he signs) but think it far more likely he spends a good amount if not all of his first pro season in the AHL.

I think he has the ability to run an NHL PP today. Question is how many goals get scored against him the 10 or so mins of 5-5 he’d get if he made the team next year.

 

[bleedgreen]

We would not be having these center conversations if we hadn't given Lindholm away. That trade has ALWAYS chapped my ass. Dougie was soft, and over priced. I know how many here worshipped him but -

Yeah I liked Dougie, but not because he was without flaws. Of course he’s flawed, he just had really good chemistry with the group and he came out of his shell a bit with us. Sometimes having guys that are clearly a good group pulling in the same direction is just more fun to root for. I have to be honest I enjoyed that version of the current team the most, when we had Tro, Skjei, Nino and Dougie. In the end there’s no arguing against winning and we’re still winning without them….and of course winning is also fun.

Agreed about Lindy, and how you feel about Tro. That guy was a perfect fit and I don’t mind his contract in what the league is becoming. They’re gone though, we just have to find the next pieces that fit. Years from now if this group fails to make it far and eventually fades away it’ll be an interesting topic on where it went sideways. I think you and I will be of similar minds on some topics if we get there.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

Morrow also has a nice bargaining chip to get his next contract going sooner. He can get the credit of using up one of his ELC years this year if he signs after UMASS is done. He can play ~15 games in Chicago, be a black ace for the playoffs, and then be 2 years from his next deal. He is a pre January birthday and already 20, so his contract would run as soon as he signs it.

Morrow can have the contractual benefit of playing this season in the AHL while enjoying all the wonders of college. eating his own cake.

 

[WreckingCrew]

I don't think Morrow will sign with us, frankly. He had a great freshman season and was offered a contract to play when we had a legitimate opening on the 3rd pair right side the next season. He decided not to sign. Now, we have four RHD under contract for next year, and the top three of them have all played great. I think the kid is smart enough to see that his chances of supplanting any of them in Rod's eyes are less than the chances of a snowball on the 4th of July. I see no reason he doesn't Fox us. I'd move him now in any opportunity to get a difference maker.

I still have concerns that Nikishin will come over, but at least as far as KHL prospects go, we hold the rights forever, so we have time to burn.

Burns & Pesce are the only RHD under contract after this year...though I'd happily resign Chatfield.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

Burns & Pesce are the only RHD under contract after this year...though I'd happily resign Chatfield

chatfield's deal runs out the same time as Pesce's.

 

[spockBokk]

Burns & Pesce are the only RHD under contract after this year...though I'd happily resign Chatfield

Doesn’t Chatfield have more year on his deal (1-way)?

 

[WreckingCrew]

chatfield's deal runs out the same time as Pesce's.

Doesn’t Chatfield have more year on his deal (1-way)?

AH FUDGE...Yup, somehow missed him on capfriendly and was thinking this year was his last year on that deal he got. But still, if he can't beat out Chatfield he probably doesn't belong in the NHL yet. And after that Chat/Pesce expire, year after Burns is 100% gone...so there's plenty of upward mobility on the right side