All Purpose Trade/Roster Building Thread XII - The UFA frenzy aftermath

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A Star is Burns

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They better have a condition on that pick
Yeah, that was my first thought as well. Because even with Horvat, there is no guarantee they make it at all.

I didn't think we would land him and I'm glad he has gone to a team that I don't worry about. What does everyone think of the return? Not as much as I thought he would get.


As I said in the other thread, I think it's roughly what JR said he wanted. A young guy that hasn't fully worked out but still has good potential and a guy in Raty that's close. Not bad with no extension (from what I've seen). Looks like the pick is top 12 protected.
 

Sigurd

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Yes, but they got something back for Nedeljkovic. It may not have been what we thought was value, but they got something. Same with Skinner.

If they see a deal that returns positive value in their eyes for Kotkaniemi I don’t think they will hesitate to move him. But they aren’t going to pay someone to unload him when the buyout cost would be $850K a year.
I wanted to say that regardless of what potential Kotkaniemi might have as he possibly develops into a better player, if we can trade him for a player that's better now, and isn't a rental, we should do it. Even if you believe he will get better (debatable), my view is that we need to improve our odds of winning the cup without rolling the dice on a prospect that might or might not grow into the top draft pick he was.

Meier, and even Horvat (because there's some Canes fans who are sour on him) would be worthy IMO of trading KK for. The other thing too is his contract. Even if we all want to give him a chance to grow as a player, if we're gonna get a high tier goal scorer, ideally we trade some cap space for not this upcoming summer, but for 2024's summer with so many expiring contracts of BIG players on this team. Trading KK's $5 million helps a lot. Then you throw in the possibility of Bally going under from Sinclair's (iirc that's the parent company's name) bankruptcy, and we're looking at the real chance of the cap ceiling going down and not up as we all assumed. The potential loss of TV revenue changes things for different teams.
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The reason Kotkaniemi won’t be moved isn’t because Carolina refuses to give up on him; it’s because they won’t get value for him right now.
Very possible being the case.

Finally, I don't see Staal being demoted to 4C as some have discussed; at least not next season/any time soon. So, if we do get a 2C, that means KK, a roughly $5 million dollar player, is stuck on the 4th line even longer. That's such an inefficient and even outright dumb use of cap space. He's already been on our 4th line a lot; do we really want most of his contract there after we get a 2C (either at the deadline or during free agency)? Especially when we can get other good 4th liners for way less money? People have complained about Staal at 3C as a $6 million dollar player (rightfully so), but does KK get a pass as a $5 million dollar 4C? The latter is a way worse situation since it's a 4C, and not to mention Staal is a defensive juggernaut and good at faceoffs despite historically not being great offensively.

If we get a 2C, we should trade KK and let Drury break into the line up finally (assuming we don't trade him either). That will help develop him into a better player. If not, Stastny or some other player takes the 4C spot.

*Edit* So, scratch Horvat's name off the list.
 

Boom Boom Apathy

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As I said in the other thread, I think it's roughly what JR said he wanted. A young guy that hasn't fully worked out but still has good potential and a guy in Raty that's close. Not bad with no extension (from what I've seen). Looks like the pick is top 12 protected.

Beauvillier is a UFA after next season so they essentially get him for 1 season (as this season is shot for them). Of course, there's a chance they can extend him this off-season, but seems like a bit underwhelming part of the deal. On the flip side, the pick is likely much better than they'd get from a contender so that's a plus.
 

ndp

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User13452

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So my guess canes would have had to offer KK a first and then a top prospect maybe morrow.
 

Sigurd

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So my guess canes would have had to offer KK a first and then a top prospect maybe morrow.
Which is exactly what I brought up as a possible package in the Horvat topic.

I'd do it for Meier. Then try to get a 2C. I'd be thrilled with those moves, and honestly getting a 3rd pairing D-man just feels like gravy. So,

Meier

Henrique/Bennett/maybe ROR

Meier-Aho-TT
Svech-Henrique/Bennett-Necas
Jarvis-Staal-Fast
Martinook-Stastny-Noesen

Looks like a fantastic forward group to me.


*Edit* So, did the NY Islanders over pay, or got Horvat for a little less than expected/should have? I'm assuming the Isles will have an extension with him. It is surprising he went to a non-contender, but maybe the higher draft pick was a big deal to Vancouver's front office.
 
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User13452

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Which is exactly what I brought up as a possible package in the Horvat topic.

I'd do it for Meier. Then try to get a 2C. I'd be thrilled with those moves, and honestly getting a 3rd pairing D-man just feels like gravy. So,

Meier

Henrique/Bennett/maybe ROR

Meier-Aho-TT
Svech-Henrique/Bennett-Necas
Jarvis-Staal-Fast
Martinook-Stastny-Noesen

Looks like a fantastic forward group to me.


*Edit* So, did the NY Islanders over pay, or got Horvat for a little less than expected/should have? I'm assuming the Isles will have an extension with him. It is surprising he went to a non-contender, but maybe the higher draft pick was a big deal to Vancouver's front office.
Depends how high people are on Raty’s potential. Beauvillier is meh wouldn’t be surprised if the Canucks flipped him at the deadline
 
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TheReelChuckFletcher

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The most Canes move for Vancouver was IMO always Boeser, not Horvat.
Which is exactly what I brought up as a possible package in the Horvat topic.

I'd do it for Meier. Then try to get a 2C. I'd be thrilled with those moves, and honestly getting a 3rd pairing D-man just feels like gravy. So,

Meier

Henrique/Bennett/maybe ROR

Meier-Aho-TT
Svech-Henrique/Bennett-Necas
Jarvis-Staal-Fast
Martinook-Stastny-Noesen

Looks like a fantastic forward group to me.


*Edit* So, did the NY Islanders over pay, or got Horvat for a little less than expected/should have? I'm assuming the Isles will have an extension with him. It is surprising he went to a non-contender, but maybe the higher draft pick was a big deal to Vancouver's front office.

I would say that NY way overpaid considering that Beauvillier is an NHL-quality winger and still has some untapped potential and the pick will likely be of good quality, unless there's an extension in place. If there's an extension in place, it's a fair trade.
 

hblueridgegal

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Not all too surprising but a caller on Sirius asked about Meier and the Devils and Kouleas strongly hinted the guy was on to something...lots of rumblings...said his deal could be announced by the All-Star break - rather imminent.
 

TheReelChuckFletcher

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Not all too surprising but a caller on Sirius asked about Meier and the Devils and Kouleas strongly hinted the guy was on to something...lots of rumblings...said his deal could be announced by the All-Star break - rather imminent.

Hopefully the trade discussions are not insular and teams like the Canes have a chance to up-bid for Meier. If NJ is ultimately the team that acquires Meier, I want the return to be as short-term painful as it was for Florida and Tkachuk rather than just a slop of prospects.
 
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Sigurd

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Not all too surprising but a caller on Sirius asked about Meier and the Devils and Kouleas strongly hinted the guy was on to something...lots of rumblings...said his deal could be announced by the All-Star break - rather imminent.
I wouldn't rule it out, but some of the "insiders" seemed to have favored Boston getting Horvat. Nobody was discussing the Islanders being a serious player for Horvat. They came out of nowhere.

Which reminds me of last year when probably nobody saw Florida being so serious with getting Tkachuk. They also came out of nowhere it seemed like. Then again, that was a while ago now, so maybe I either missed some info or forgot. I doubt anyone would've predicted such a heavy price they'd give though.
 
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MadeUpName

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Kotkaniemi for Garland

JR gets his U23 reclamation and Carolina shifts money around to spend on 2C
 

MadeUpName

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Or at least certainly for a better trade target.

Garland drops down the winger list IMO. Crouse and Konecny should be the winger back up plans after Meier IMO. I'd take Boeser from Vancouver before Garland.

Complete list of Vancouver and Carolina players that have more 5v5 points than Garland since the start of last season (64 points):



He'd be a firecracker in Brind'Amour's system.
 

Sigurd

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Complete list of Vancouver and Carolina players that have more 5v5 points than Garland since the start of last season (64 points):



He'd be a firecracker in Brind'Amour's system.
I don't value him as highly because Garland is 5'9. We have enough smaller forwards in our top 6.

At least Boeser brings some size to his skill (not that I want him as much as other wingers).
 

TheReelChuckFletcher

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Complete list of Vancouver and Carolina players that have more 5v5 points than Garland since the start of last season (64 points):



He'd be a firecracker in Brind'Amour's system.

I think Garland would be a great offseason move to upgrade Jesper Fast, but I agree with BDC that the Canes are looking for size up front at the deadline.
 

Boom Boom Apathy

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Well, at least Boston didn't get Horvat (yet). I do think Meier goes to NJ though. They have the best assets to get it done and given where they are in their "rebuild", it's a good team to sign an extension with.
 
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