All Purpose Trade / Roster Building Thread Part 5: The Jerk Store Called - It's Time to Restock

[Big Daddy Cane]

I'm missing the logic of keeping all RHD. We need more scoring and depth down the middle and we have NHL ready prospects who will be much more cap friendly. Do we not expect to resign Hamilton? I'm not a Faulk hater and recognize he had a nice rebound year, but I don't care to see him extended either.

It's one of two things, imo:

1. The FO likes what it has with the Top 4 and wants to keep it together. Brind'Amour shuffled the pairs after the atrocious performance at home against Ottawa in mid-January, putting Pesce and Faulk together and Hamilton back with Slavin for the game in Edmonton. From January 20th to the end of the regular season, the Canes scored ~3.37 GF/G and allowed just ~2.37 GA/G, winning at a ~117 point pace. Slavin, Hamilton, Pesce and Faulk combined for a whopping +64 rating in those 35 games. That group proceeded to play a significant role in the team winning two rounds in the postseason.

2. The FO is weary of giving Hamilton a big contract and wants some protection. He's just 2 years away from being an $8 mil a year player with term. That's a big commitment to make to a player that got demoted to the 3rd pairing in a crucial Game 7 against Washington.

I don’t see this as a prelude to a major trade. The player other teams would want for their desirable forward in a hockey deal is the same one Carolina needs to hold on to the most (Pesce).

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

Well there is still Nylander and Kadri....we won't get off that easy.

Toronto media generally thinks too highly of Nylander to suggest a trade for any of the three Top 4 RHD.

LeBrun's reasoning prior to someone better informing him of Carolina's situation was that the Canes were probably going to move one of the three and being the small-market franchise they are, would want a young and cheap forward in return. Kadri is cheap, but he's not young.

LeBrun has been the sole driver of the speculation after the Nylander signing should have killed it. He's actually made mention that the two teams haven't talked in a long time. Now that there is a hole in his reasoning, I think there's a real chance we don't hear about it again moving forward.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

It should be noted that Faulk makes $6M / year right now in real money. I get that his hit is $4.83, but he's made $5.5M, $5.5M, $6M for the last 3 years in real money (and will get $6M again this year). I can't see any way he signs an extension for less than $6M.

 

[A Star is Burns]

It should be noted that Faulk makes $6M / year right now in real money. I get that his hit is $4.83, but he's made $5.5M, $5.5M, $6M for the last 3 years in real money (and will get $6M again this year). I can't see any way he signs an extension for less than $6M.

Yup. He's making that money, he's gonna be UFA, and he's a few years after Pesce and Slavin signed. That's his bar. And he'd get it as a UFA easily I'd imagine.

 

[MinJaBen]

I don't have a problem keeping all of the RHD in theory if we are going to be a cap team. But since Dundon doesn't seem like he's ready to spend to the cap, I'd rather move one of them so we can spend more on the forward group.

 

[My Special Purpose]

One of the benefits of having all our guys play well into the spring is that teams have seen our players. There are no secrets in Carolina/Charlotte. And frankly, all this exposure can only help. With very rare exception, every player in our organization is more valuable today than they were last summer. It's one of the benefits to winning. Plus, we've shown that we don't *need* to do much. We don't *have* to trade a RD. We don't *need* a No. 2 center.

Now, I think we'll look for some things this summer, but being in position where we don't *have* to do anything, and with teams coming to us for players they got to see that maybe they wouldn't normally, puts us in the drivers' seat.

Having said all that, I hope we still find a way to be bold this summer, because it's starting to look like it may be a slow off-season, consisting mostly of re-signing our own guys.

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

I don't have a problem keeping all three RHD if there are no trade opportunities that make sense...

...I just think that if there are no trade opportunities that make sense for like 3 or 4 offseasons in a row it's because we haven't tried hard enough to find or create them.

 

[Unsustainable]

Faulk is not worth more that Slavin or Pesce

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

Faulk is not worth more that Slavin or Pesce

Slavin and Pesce are worth more than we are paying for Slavin and Pesce, so it's not really about that.

 

[My Special Purpose]

Faulk is not worth more that Slavin or Pesce

Unfortunately, that's not how any of this works.

BUT ... does anyone get the feeling they might be setting Faulk up for the Skinner treatment? It doesn't *feel* like it, to me. But there are some similarities, though I'll admit, I don't recall the exact play-by-play of the Skinner situation. Did we ever claim to try to sign Skinner to an extension?

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

Unfortunately, that's not how any of this works.

BUT ... does anyone get the feeling they might be setting Faulk up for the Skinner treatment? It doesn't *feel* like it, to me. But there are some similarities, though I'll admit, I don't recall the exact play-by-play of the Skinner situation. Did we ever claim to try to sign Skinner to an extension?

That's a good point.

Not sure if Skinner's followed the same thing but... maybe a Kaiton situation? "Here's how much we think you're worth" and insult the shit out of him. Then spin it as him walking away from the offer lol.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I don't recall them ever talking about an extension with Skinner, but maybe I missed it.

 

[Chrispy]

Unfortunately, that's not how any of this works.

BUT ... does anyone get the feeling they might be setting Faulk up for the Skinner treatment? It doesn't *feel* like it, to me. But there are some similarities, though I'll admit, I don't recall the exact play-by-play of the Skinner situation. Did we ever claim to try to sign Skinner to an extension?

I found this article where Waddell said:

“We have him for another year and that’s the way it remains,” Don Waddell, the Canes’ president and general manager, said Tuesday. “Jeff’s been a great player for our franchise. Certainly if there’s another fit someplace that makes sense for all of us we might explore it, but if not we know he’ll be a part of this group going forward.”

But I don't recall the same leaks on negotiations that came out about Hanifin or Lindholm.

I think it's more likely they want to talk to Faulk and see what the numbers are. It could end up like Hanifin and Lindholm where Faulk's request is fair for market value, but above what Carolina considers his value.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

I don't have a problem keeping all three RHD if there are no trade opportunities that make sense...

...I just think that if there are no trade opportunities that make sense for like 3 or 4 offseasons in a row it's because we haven't tried hard enough to find or create them.

Hockey trades develop. Look at Edmonton to see what happens when a team creates a trade opportunity (Hall for Larsson).

It's hard to assemble NHL Top 6/Top 4 depth. It's harder to do at the same time another team has a similar excess and deficiency in reverse. It's even harder to find a match where ages and contractual situations (team control) are in alignment. We don't see D for F, player for player trades that often.

 

[jiitu]

But since Dundon doesn't seem like he's ready to spend to the cap

I think it's too early to say this. Yes, he didn't spend any extra during the winter and yes, there's not much done after. But it does not mean that he's not ready to spend when there is a reason. Instead, there were reasons to make other kind of trades...trades that went great.

For sure there is long-term thinking. There are many guys to be signed, which they ant to sign, with higher money. There's Aho of course, 2 goalies, captain etc. And just bit later, #37. It's nice to spend here and there, when you can, but afterward, when you have real spendings waiting and your credit card is full...ok I don't know the feeling but I'm sure it sucks. I always like to calculate, then use when necessary. Always be sure that when needed, I can. I think Dundon is the same. He's a businessman who thinks in long-term. After knowing the contracts of Aho, goalies and captain, it's much clearer view how much can be still spent.

Playoff run for sure made this season real good money season and there's now more space to also spend...but do it vicely.

 

[cptjeff]

I think it's too early to say this. Yes, he didn't spend any extra during the winter and yes, there's not much done after. But it does not mean that he's not ready to spend when there is a reason. Instead, there were reasons to make other kind of trades...trades that went great.

For sure there is long-term thinking. There are many guys to be signed, which they ant to sign, with higher money. There's Aho of course, 2 goalies, captain etc. And just bit later, #37. It's nice to spend here and there, when you can, but afterward, when you have real spendings waiting and your credit card is full...ok I don't know the feeling but I'm sure it sucks. I always like to calculate, then use when necessary. Always be sure that when needed, I can. I think Dundon is the same. He's a businessman who thinks in long-term. After knowing the contracts of Aho, goalies and captain, it's much clearer view how much can be still spent.

Playoff run for sure made this season real good money season and there's now more space to also spend...but do it vicely.

Yep. Dundon (or maybe it was Waddell) addressed this in one of his end of season interviews. He doesn't have any cap on spending, per se, but he does want value with the players they sign. He wants to find players who are worth the money or are getting paid less than they're really worth, but he doesn't want to throw money at guys just to prove he's willing to spend.

I think we'll see the Canes go after at least one big free agent this season, they're going to want to put a conference finals team over the top. We were the youngest team in the playoffs and one of the cheapest- and by a very long measure the cheapest team to make the conference finals. I think Dundon's eyes are bulging a little bit at the value proposition there- invest in a guy or two more that you believe in, via free agency or trade, and you become a cup contender, which brings in a lot more money than being a bottom feeder.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

While we all have our desires to get guys like Karlsson (W), Duchene, Zucker, Kapanen/Nylander/Johnsson, etc.. it wouldn't surprise me if the Canes are looking are some lower tier guys / bargain guys, particularly if they don't trade a D man and re-sign Williams. Guys like Cody Eakins or Eric Haula. Both only under contract for 1 year, both are relatively inexpensive, and both are guys VGN probably wants to move before Karlsson.

While this management team is more unpredictable, I see them going after Eakins, Haula, Kapanen long before these other guys. All 3 of those guys would help the team and if Svech takes another step up and Necas (or some other checker) can contribute in the top 9, that might be enough.

 

[GoldiFox]

While we all have our desires to get guys like Karlsson (W), Duchene, Zucker, Kapanen/Nylander/Johnsson, etc.. it wouldn't surprise me if the Canes are looking are some lower tier guys / bargain guys, particularly if they don't trade a D man and re-sign Williams. Guys like Cody Eakins or Eric Haula. Both only under contract for 1 year, both are relatively inexpensive, and both are guys VGN probably wants to move before Karlsson.

While this management team is more unpredictable, I see them going after Eakins, Haula, Kapanen long before these other guys. All 3 of those guys would help the team and if Svech takes another step up and Necas (or some other checker) can contribute in the top 9, that might be enough.

We have some hint if the reports of the Canes wanting to acquire and sign Ryan Dzingle were true. I'd put his UFA contract in the $4-5 million range which lands more in the middle of your comparisons (close to Kapanen).

 

[GoldiFox]

While we all have our desires to get guys like Karlsson (W), Duchene, Zucker, Kapanen/Nylander/Johnsson, etc.. it wouldn't surprise me if the Canes are looking are some lower tier guys / bargain guys, particularly if they don't trade a D man and re-sign Williams. Guys like Cody Eakins or Eric Haula. Both only under contract for 1 year, both are relatively inexpensive, and both are guys VGN probably wants to move before Karlsson.

While this management team is more unpredictable, I see them going after Eakins, Haula, Kapanen long before these other guys. All 3 of those guys would help the team and if Svech takes another step up and Necas (or some other checker) can contribute in the top 9, that might be enough.

Just to double back on Eakin/Haula, I think you probably hit a nail on the head with those. Out of conference, Vegas has to move one or both, trade history with Waddell, and both of these guys are known as 3 zone competitors. Both seem like very unsexy options but both would have great utility on the Canes and cost almost nothing.

Eakin's 17 5v5 goals last year are more than Aho (14), Hamilton (14), Svechnikov (12), and any other Canes player. Looks like he also played Center all year with a 51% FO clip. Eakin has never been a PP contributor.
Haula was injured most of last year but he scored 14 5v5 goals in 2017-18 on top of 12 PP goals. Haula's 12 PP goals that season were tied for #14 among the league tied with the likes of 1) Phil Kessel, 2) Mikko Rantanen, 3) Nathan MacKinnon, 4) John Tavares, 5) Sam Reinhart, and 6) Nazem Kadri. Not bad company. Looking at his highlights from that year they weren't fluky either.

 

[emptyNedder]

Just to double back on Eakin/Haula, I think you probably hit a nail on the head with those.

Haula would be a great fit. Hockey-Reference lists him as LW the past two seasons. That might be as valuable as his ability to play center. The Canes have 2 LW in Svechnikov and Niederreiter. I presume Necas is the third RW behind Teravainen and Williams. A third line of Haula/Wallmark/Necas would be able to score. If Williams can continue to produce then Svech/Aho/Williams and NN/Staal/TT are decent combinations.

 

[FreshSeabass]

Penciling in Wallmark at 3C is risky. He played great but if staal goes down with an injury hes playing 2C again which is just not good. Really hope they acquire another middle 6 center/wing type player. Eakin being mentioned above sounds perfect.

 

[DougieSmash]

Dzingel sucks. Give me Haula over him. Easily.

 

[emptyNedder]

Penciling in Wallmark at 3C is risky. He played great but if staal goes down with an injury hes playing 2C again which is just not good. Really hope they acquire another middle 6 center/wing type player. Eakin being mentioned above sounds perfect.

Wallmark is solid defensively. I think he is at least equivalent to Eakin. For instance Eakin scored 8 points in 30 games his first NHL season. That is a touch lower than Wallmark last season. Eakin's best point production was last season at 41--unless Wallmark is one of the few rookies who doesn't progress that number seems well within reach.

Remember the winning streak started last season with Staal injured and Wallmark at 2C. He isn't an ideal 2C, but I stand by my argument that he is trending to be somewhere between Mikael Backlund and Tomas Plekanec.

 

[DaveG]

Dzingel sucks. Give me Haula over him. Easily.

Well, wouldn't say he sucks but him being scratched by Columbus and not really producing for them was concerning for me. Would rather have Nyquist, Eakin, or Haula

 

[My Special Purpose]

Hockey trades develop. Look at Edmonton to see what happens when a team creates a trade opportunity (Hall for Larsson).

It's hard to assemble NHL Top 6/Top 4 depth. It's harder to do at the same time another team has a similar excess and deficiency in reverse. It's even harder to find a match where ages and contractual situations (team control) are in alignment. We don't see D for F, player for player trades that often.

It's a little early, still. There are a few teams counting on Erik Karlsson and other big names in free agency that are going to miss out.