All Purpose Trade / Roster Building Thread III - the thread where everyone signs somewhere else

[Svechhammer]

It’s all optics.

If you are confident you will “win” a trade, of course you’ll deal with people in the East. Long term, if you take more assets from a conference rival than you give them, you’d be happy to “wound” an opponent like that.

But when it’s a present for future value type of deal, and that stash of picks and prospects you get for Eichel isn’t going to come back and bite your conference rival for another 3-4 years, and your fans see your former franchise player scoring on you every game you play against him… sometimes it’s better just to get the same stash of picks from some team in the West and let any side narratives die.

An addendum: when you’re in a situation like this and a player is forcing himself out, there may be no “winning” the resulting trade. In that case, you’d absolutely rather “lose” the trade to a team in the West.

And this is why so many teams are run so badly. When its more about the optics than the results, you're f***ed before you even start.

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

And this is why so many teams are run so badly. When its more about the optics than the results, you're f***ed before you even start.

Given my addendum though, I don’t hate the notion of Buffalo looking primarily to the West.

 

[Svechhammer]

Given my addendum though, I don’t hate the notion of Buffalo looking primarily to the West.

Look, Buffalo likely isn't going to compete anytime soon. The worst thing they could do right now is handcuff themselves in trying to get fair or even premium value in trading their superstar forward by eliminating half the teams from consideration. They should be talking to everyone and leveraging all teams to find the absolute best deal they can get.

Just a stupid thing to be leaking out to the public right now.

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

I don’t think there’s a ton of difference between negotiating with 16 teams and negotiating with 31 teams, as far as driving up the value for your asset.

If I were in the GM chair I don’t think I’d care, but especially given their position of weakness I get it, and I don’t think the reduced pool will materially result in a significantly lower return.

 

[GoldiFox]

Look, Buffalo likely isn't going to compete anytime soon. The worst thing they could do right now is handcuff themselves in trying to get fair or even premium value in trading their superstar forward by eliminating half the teams from consideration. They should be talking to everyone and leveraging all teams to find the absolute best deal they can get.

Just a stupid thing to be leaking out to the public right now.

IMO the two best assets that Buffalo could get back for Eichel at their current stage would be either the #2 Overall+ (Seattle) or the #3 Overall+ (Anaheim). Which are out West anyway. It is a gamble but if they can hit on those picks they have 7 guaranteed, cost-controlled years of two new cornerstone players.

Sucks to rebuild after a rebuild but coming out of the Draft with Power and Bernier/Eklund charts a new timeline. Add another high pick or young player for Reinhart.

 

[Svechhammer]

IMO the two best assets that Buffalo could get back for Eichel at their current stage would be either the #2 Overall+ (Seattle) or the #3 Overall+ (Anaheim). Which are out West anyway. It is a gamble but if they can hit on those picks they have 7 guaranteed, cost-controlled years of two new cornerstone players.

Sucks to rebuild after a rebuild but coming out of the Draft with Power and Bernier/Eklund charts a new timeline. Add another high pick or young player for Reinhart.

See I kind of disagree. Buffalo needs a lot of help, not just top end talent. They'd do well to get a couple picks (1st and 2nd rounders), a high end prospect, and a midrange roster player. And I think that's probably a legit offer they could get from anyone. They'd be dumb to not listen to one just because the team happens to be from the east.

 

[bleedgreen]

If I were them I’d want nothing to do with playing him multiple times a year. I’d also want a better draft for the pick so I wouldn’t be overly focusing on a high pick this year.

I think they’re in position to properly rebuild right now. I wish they could keep Reinhart and Risto as rebuilds don’t take as long as they used to. I expect them to be better next season, not that it’s a huge accomplishment.

 

[hblueridgegal]

Another one off the books:

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

Another one off the books:

The older brother recommended he consider going to a European team. Looks like he took the advice to heart.

 

[Vagrant]

rumors have matthew tkachuk wanting out of calgary. one of the most underrated offensive players in the league in my opinion. we could *really* use that kind of player who plays close enough to the edge to cross it sometimes. especially if we lose brock.

 

[MinJaBen]

rumors have matthew tkachuk wanting out of calgary. one of the most underrated offensive players in the league in my opinion. we could *really* use that kind of player who plays close enough to the edge to cross it sometimes. especially if we lose brock.

His last year of his contract and qualifying offer for the next contract is $9M. Does that sound like something that this front office would want or handle well?

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

@hblueridgegal You have a SiriusXM subscription right? Can you confirm the wording of the "rumor", if they make a replay of the Powerplay available on-demand?

A random Twitter user recapping the spot of a non-insider (Shane O'Brien) doesn't inspire much confidence.

 

[MinJaBen]

@hblueridgegal You have a SiriusXM subscription right? Can you confirm the wording of the "rumor", if they make a replay of the Powerplay available on-demand?

A random Twitter user recapping the spot of a non-insider (Shane O'Brien) doesn't inspire much confidence.

I heard the segment live and I recall that it sounded like he had more than a hunch.

 

[hblueridgegal]

@hblueridgegal You have a SiriusXM subscription right? Can you confirm the wording of the "rumor", if they make a replay of the Powerplay available on-demand?

@Big Daddy Cane A random Twitter user recapping the spot of a non-insider (Shane O'Brien) doesn't inspire much confidence.

Yes, a caller phoned in asking if Seattle or some other team would take Tarasenko as he's not effective anymore and his attitude isn't the best. O'Brien replied that he was hearing "rumblings" and a rumor that Tkachuk wants to go home and play in STL and that a trade that includes Tarasenko + someone else is in the works. It was around 5:15 of the Powerplay today. Kouleas was almost speechless. O'Brien said he has heard it numerous times from other players..sounded confident.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

Perfect. As I posted on the trade board, you have good ears.

Recaps are not always trustworthy. Selective hearing occurs and selective reading of that is what ends up turning what was actually said into something totally different. Source audio or a good source providing the recaps is important, at least imo.

 

[hblueridgegal]

Perfect. As I posted on the trade board, you have good ears.

Recaps are not always trustworthy. Selective hearing occurs and selective reading of that is what ends up turning what was actually said into something totally different. Source audio or a good source providing the recaps is important, at least imo.

Kinda feel for Obie (O'Brien) now. It's almost like it slipped out while he was answering the caller's question. I don't think he intended to cause such a firestorm.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

No kidding. Tkachuk is trending nationally in the U.S. on Twitter this morning.

It's not only GMs that lust after the player type.

View media item 9477

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

No kidding. Tkachuk is trending nationally in the U.S. on Twitter this morning.

It's not only GMs that lust after the player type.

View media item 9477

Yes, very true. And with, by most accounts, the single most highly-coveted farm system in the entire contending half of the league, the Canes would be well-positioned to make a Matt Tkachuk splash in the trade market. With him, we'd finally have our Tom Wilson.

 

[A Star is Burns]

I'm not sure I see Calgary as a team that would want futures. I'd bet there are much better fits for them to trade with than us. I'd love to get him if we could though.

 

[Unsustainable]

I’d take Tkachuk easily here.

 

[GoldiFox]

I think it would take Necas or Svech to pull in Tkachuk. I'm not sure Jarvis+++ gets it done. I do think Calgary would 100% want to send him East.

IF Tkachuk actually did shake loose then I think a Tkachuk+ for Eichel swap makes a lot of sense.

Tkachuk's QO is $9 million but I would hope if the Canes acquired him that they could extend for closer to $8 million.

 

[Chrispy]

I think it would take Necas or Svech to pull in Tkachuk. I'm not sure Jarvis+++ gets it done. I do think Calgary would 100% want to send him East.

IF Tkachuk actually did shake loose then I think a Tkachuk+ for Eichel swap makes a lot of sense.

Tkachuk's QO is $9 million but I would hope if the Canes acquired him that they could extend for closer to $8 million.

Agreed, much like a Laine deal once PLD started having issues in Columbus, trading the two disgruntled young stars for each other makes sense. Calgary has been complaining about the lack of a 1C. It's a high price to pay, but Eichel solves that problem.

Buffalo would probably want a good chip in addition because Tkachuk could only have 2 years of control. But even if they flip him it should be a big return.

 

[bleedgreen]

Buffalo would have two really expensive wingers despite sucking, especially if Tkachuk makes use of the 9 mill qo. If I was in Buffalo I would. He’d be a good building block for them but that might not be the right trade for Eichel. If they really want him maybe Reinhart?

I want this guy or his brother pretty damn bad but didn’t know about the qo.

 

[NotOpie]

Yes, very true. And with, by most accounts, the single most highly-coveted farm system in the entire contending half of the league, the Canes would be well-positioned to make a Matt Tkachuk splash in the trade market. With him, we'd finally have our Tom Wilson.

So you keep talking about our great farm system, but calling it "most highly-coveted farm system in the entire contending half of the league" is just flat out hyperbole. And this coming from possibly the most optimistic Caniac on these boards.

I think we've got a great system and it certainly is one of the better ones and, as you say, better than nearly all the contending teams. But as fans, we are all "bright, shiny objects" kind of people. Note how Jarvis is our obsession rather than a guy like Jack Drury who has just finished a damn good season playing against men. Or guys like Honka or Tieksola, also putting up impressive seasons in another of the best leagues in the world.

After those 3 or 4 youngsters, the better phrase to describe our farm system would be highly touted but clearly unproven.

I'm not disagreeing with your alignment of the farm system with the positive analysis that it has received....just feeling like you, and maybe even the so called experts, need to pump the brakes on the overt praise. Guys like Gunler, Pashin, Nybeck, Seeley, and even one of my favorites, Ponomaryov, have proven nothing against the type of competition they will have to succeed against to truly be considered good NHLers, not even great ones.

We have no Trevor Zegras, no Ty Smith, no Anton Lundell, no Bowen Byram or Alex Newhook....and while some of those guys haven't proven themselves either, their ceilings appear to be somewhat higher. I guess we'll all see when guys start graduating.

Again, I think we're pretty stacked and love the boom or bust mentality of our recent drafts. I'm just more sanguine than most about the potential.

 

[GoldiFox]

Anton Lundell was picked one spot before Jarvis and both had impressive D+1 years. They are the same tier of prospect IMO. Which is a few tiers below the top tier with Trevor Zegras.

The Canes have exactly what they need. A large pool of forward talent - Jarvis, Suzuki, Drury, Rees, Bokk, Gunler, Ponomarev, Tieksola, etc. - of which they need one or two to hit during their Cup window. There isn't much room for more than that. And that is a talented group to hopefully pull 1-2 solid top-9 forwards from.

I don't see another currently contending team with that many legit darts. It isn't late round steals, that is what you'd expect from three 1st round picks and four 2nd round picks.