All Purpose Trade / Roster Building Thread III - the thread where everyone signs somewhere else

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

When it comes to the farm, I'm talking in terms of trade assets. I don't know which ones pan out as NHLers, though this organization has been known for a high hit rate since the Francis era. Even though the only true potential star is Jarvis, no contending club has as many potential role-player prospects, the kind of players that amplify returns in packages to get top players.

 

[bleedgreen]

When it comes to the farm, I'm talking in terms of trade assets. I don't know which ones pan out as NHLers, though this organization has been known for a high hit rate since the Francis era. Even though the only true potential star is Jarvis, no contending club has as many potential role-player prospects, the kind of players that amplify returns in packages to get top players.

Do they amplify? Usually in packages for really good players you're getting at least one legit prospect - not a guy who may someday be a solid third liner only in our optimistic eyes. We've got Jarvis, Drury, Rees, the goalies, arguably Suzuki. Gunler and Pono are probably stretches for trade value at this point as they're still very raw. We probably over value Rees and Suzuki's ceiling is now in question. Drury is at least a valued role player who seems likely to at least be an every day player in a lower role. To me that's it for good looking prospects anyone is going to see as adding value to a trade. Everyone else is a throw in without more development. Bokk has dropped imo. Will Honka play under Rod? Maybe Keane has some value but we need defense.

This era hasn't transitioned into a successful one from the Francis era yet when it comes to drafting/developing, still early in that game. One aspect I've been following is how they view prospects as assets. I may be wrong but the only Waddell acquired prospect that's been traded is Priskie. Every other young guy moved has been a Francis one. At times it felt like they viewed those guys as found money and have been at times maybe a little loose with them. It'll be curious to see how they treat their own drafted guys. Feels like we may find out this summer.

 

[Chrispy]

Do they amplify? Usually in packages for really good players you're getting at least one legit prospect - not a guy who may someday be a solid third liner only in our optimistic eyes. We've got Jarvis, Drury, Rees, the goalies, arguably Suzuki. Gunler and Pono are probably stretches for trade value at this point as they're still very raw. We probably over value Rees and Suzuki's ceiling is now in question. Drury is at least a valued role player who seems likely to at least be an every day player in a lower role. To me that's it for good looking prospects anyone is going to see as adding value to a trade. Everyone else is a throw in without more development. Bokk has dropped imo. Will Honka play under Rod? Maybe Keane has some value but we need defense.

This era hasn't transitioned into a successful one from the Francis era yet when it comes to drafting/developing, still early in that game. One aspect I've been following is how they view prospects as assets. I may be wrong but the only Waddell acquired prospect that's been traded is Priskie. Every other young guy moved has been a Francis one. At times it felt like they viewed those guys as found money and have been at times maybe a little loose with them. It'll be curious to see how they treat their own drafted guys. Feels like we may find out this summer.

I think @TheRillestPaulFenton is looking for the next Paul Fenton or Dale Tallon. Because Priskie and Eetu do not qualify as "at least one good prospect" as you stated.

But those types of deals often fall into your lap. Not something you can plan to build your team around.

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

I think @TheRillestPaulFenton is looking for the next Paul Fenton or Dale Tallon. Because Priskie and Eetu do not qualify as "at least one good prospect" as you stated.

But those types of deals often fall into your lap. Not something you can plan to build your team around.

Yes. There's always a GM out there that way undervalues a player like Trocheck and is basically willing to deal him for scraps (though Eetu looks like he is developing into a potential 3C). But when it comes to Tkachuk, it would be a Jarvis + Role Player Group package.

 

[NotOpie]

Anton Lundell was picked one spot before Jarvis and both had impressive D+1 years. They are the same tier of prospect IMO. Which is a few tiers below the top tier with Trevor Zegras.

The Canes have exactly what they need. A large pool of forward talent - Jarvis, Suzuki, Drury, Rees, Bokk, Gunler, Ponomarev, Tieksola, etc. - of which they need one or two to hit during their Cup window. There isn't much room for more than that. And that is a talented group to hopefully pull 1-2 solid top-9 forwards from.

I don't see another currently contending team with that many legit darts. It isn't late round steals, that is what you'd expect from three 1st round picks and four 2nd round picks.

My point wasn't that our prospect pool wasn't rich in possibility. It is. All of it significantly more unproven against "men" that I'd think is more of a real barometer. Hence my comments about Honka and Tieksola.

As I said, I love our approach. I love our current crop of prospects. I'm just more in a "wait and see" mode over the next year or two before I'm willing to be as outwardly excited.....after all, just ask @Boom Boom Apathy about my enthusiasm for one Chris Terry - a world class AHL player; not so much in the NHL.

When it comes to the farm, I'm talking in terms of trade assets. I don't know which ones pan out as NHLers, though this organization has been known for a high hit rate since the Francis era. Even though the only true potential star is Jarvis, no contending club has as many potential role-player prospects, the kind of players that amplify returns in packages to get top players.

Unless it is a top 10 or 15 1st round pick, the assets we have in the farm will be discounted in trades. You know the typical construction: pick, prospect, and a B roster player. I do believe you overvalue our guys in that regard. Again, once they prove themselves at the higher levels, their value may/will increase....but right now they are more like $5 chips in the poker game, not $100 chips.

 

[CanesFanBudMan]

Tkachuk would be a great addition I think, but with his QO situation he’s in a similar situation to someone who is 1 year from UFA.

Value wise he makes sense as the main piece for Eichel, but he’d be leaving Buffalo in 2 years max so that does not make since for them.

 

[Buenos Necas]

QO offer certainly makes it tricky, would have to be able to negotiate ahead of time to make sure an extension could get done. But man...I'd give them just about anything they wanted to get him on this team, would be a great addition.

 

[Unsustainable]

I don’t like the idea of trading Jarvis or Rees.

 

[NotOpie]

I don’t like the idea of trading Jarvis or Rees.

Me either....I think that if a forward is added, it will be in the mold of Trocheck or Niederreiter....40-60 point guys who make around $4.5 million to $5.5 million.

We're going to need all of the Jarvis, Drury, Rees, Bokk, etc. ELCs we can get.

 

[Unsustainable]

I’m probably wrong, but I’m not big on Drury from a standpoint of what happened with Fox.

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

I’m probably wrong, but I’m not big on Drury from a standpoint of what happened with Fox.

It'd be a weird dynamic with the Rangers. Would Jack be ok with his uncle sending him to the AHL? Or cracking down during contract negotiations?

 

[spockBokk]

I do wonder about Drury.

I find it a little odd he’s not signed yet. I suppose if he’s not signed going into August or if he doesn’t come to prospects camp, then it’d be time to worry.

 

[Buenos Necas]

I'm not too worried about Drury, yet. We've got a ton to sell him on as a contending team with a great coach who's perfect for his game and spots open in the bottom 6. Maybe he really does have rangers-only tunnel vision, but like Dubinchuk said, he may not want to rush into that family dynamic. It could just as easily be a negative if he's the type that would prefer to chart his own course.

 

[GoldiFox]

I don't think there is any more room for not considering underestimating the importance of beginning to start the process of mulling over the conceptualization of starting to worry about Jack Drury leaving. The time to do it is very soon.

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

QO offer certainly makes it tricky, would have to be able to negotiate ahead of time to make sure an extension could get done. But man...I'd give them just about anything they wanted to get him on this team, would be a great addition.

I wonder if a 7x9 gets it done for Tkachuk as an extension offer. I know he has a $9M QO, but I do think that as a true contender, a negotiation with Tkachuk and Carolina is likely to be much less contentious than the current Calgary situation.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

This team successfully negotiating a long-term, big money contract is firmly in believe it, when I see it territory at the moment.

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

Me either....I think that if a forward is added, it will be in the mold of Trocheck or Niederreiter....40-60 point guys who make around $4.5 million to $5.5 million.

We're going to need all of the Jarvis, Drury, Rees, Bokk, etc. ELCs we can get.

I think Carolina is specifically building a roster that does not rely on ELC players contributing before they're NHL-ready. This is why they've been working the Boston or Tampa strategy on UFAs, aka. take a bit less to compete for cups.

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

This team successfully negotiating a long-term, big money contract is firmly in believe it, when I see it territory at the moment.

A part of me just wonders, however, if said difficulties with contract negotiations start getting easier now that the club has wrung out three-straight playoff appearances and is clearly an upstart contender.

 

[MinJaBen]

I wonder if a 7x9 gets it done for Tkachuk as an extension offer. I know he has a $9M QO, but I do think that as a true contender, a negotiation with Tkachuk and Carolina is likely to be much less contentious than the current Calgary situation.

A part of me just wonders, however, if said difficulties with contract negotiations start getting easier now that the club has wrung out three-straight playoff appearances and is clearly an upstart contender.

Your ability to ignore all available evidence about this front offices' negotiating tactics is amazing.

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

Your ability to ignore all available evidence about this front offices' negotiating tactics is amazing.

"Ignore" is not the right word. I'm well aware of their tactics. I'm simply stating that as the club gets better, that tactic may begin to actually start bearing more fruit, as more players view the club as their shot to get hardware.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

Hamilton may walk in a month, despite all of those accoutrements.

So, probably not.

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

Hamilton may walk in a month, despite all of those accoutrements.

So, probably not.

"May" is the key word. We'll see. I agree with you that a danger with being too hard on top-end salaries is that you can be penny-wise, pound-foolish. Hopefully this front office learned from the Aho offer sheet and handles Hamilton accordingly.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

If Dougie stays, it’s likely because the offers on the open market aren’t as high as he and his agent thought they would be.

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

If Dougie stays, it’s likely because the offers on the open market aren’t as high as he and his agent thought they would be.

Hence why the Canes gave Barry permission to speak with the rest of the league.

 

[Chrispy]

If Dougie stays, it’s likely because the offers on the open market aren’t as high as he and his agent thought they would be.

Which is why I think a short-term deal is likely if he stays.

More likely he takes a short deal, then tries his hand on a market with more cap space.