All Purpose Trade / Roster Building Thread III - the thread where everyone signs somewhere else

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Hence why the Canes gave Barry permission to speak with the rest of the league.

Yes, it’s been well documented.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Which is why I think a short-term deal is likely if he stays.

More likely he takes a short deal, then tries his hand on a market with more cap space.

Maybe. But he’s 28 now and if he takes a 3 year deal, he’ll be on the wrong side of 30 when the cap goes up. Might be a risk he’s not willing to take. I have no idea though.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

Are there any examples of big time UFAs that bridged like that in lieu of chasing term?

If a player is hurt or badly underperformed recently, I would understand the motivation. Neither applies to him, though.

 

[Chrispy]

Maybe. But he’s 28 now and if he takes a 3 year deal, he’ll be on the wrong side of 30 when the cap goes up. Might be a risk he’s not willing to take. I have no idea though.

I was thinking 1 year, maybe 2. Agreed he might lose a chance at the big long-term deal if he goes 3. But if he gets a good 3 year deal and a good 4 year deal, that could still be worth it.

Are there any examples of big time UFAs that bridged like that in lieu of chasing term?

If a player is hurt or badly underperformed recently, I would understand the motivation. Neither applies to him, though.

Taylor Hall last year? I realize he wasn't still at his MVP peak, but it was a 1 year deal to wait out the pandemic. Is the cap situation much better this year, or does it make sense to push a year?

 

[Buenos Necas]

Not sure on a 2-3 year bridge in their prime, but Hossa signing the 1-year deal with the Red Wings comes to mind. Obviously he was cup chasing, but can't remember many other examples of the top free agent passing a long-term deal.

On one hand I'd be very surprised if Dougie signed for anything less than 6 years, even in the flat-cap period...but Dougie's the kinda cat who might just sign a short deal at of the blue, so who knows.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

I thought of Hall as soon as I hit Post Reply. However, the flat cap is catching no team by surprise this year. Plus, Seattle is adding up to $81.5 mil to the system. Different environment.

The other one that I just remembered was Hossa in Detroit. That was a pure cup chase, IIRC.

EDIT: Beaten to it.

 

[Buenos Necas]

And I just did the same thing with not adding Hall, we got there eventually

 

[hblueridgegal]

Perhaps if a few of the Cane's players were a little more vocal and evangelistic about the perks of playing here, some of the intangibles could occasionally become tipping points? Recently, on SiriusNHL, when talking about Dougie and a few others, Obie talked about how many visiting players don't even like coming to Raleigh for games as it's "boring"; however, he also said players who join the team really like it and speak favorably re: living in the area. He felt like there's still a disconnect in the perception of what the experience is like within the league.

 

[NotOpie]

I do wonder about Drury.

I find it a little odd he’s not signed yet. I suppose if he’s not signed going into August or if he doesn’t come to prospects camp, then it’d be time to worry.

My sense is that they are having conversations with Drury, but until they know where they stand post ED and opening of free agency, I think it will be difficult. I'm sure the team feels they are better with Brock and Warren in the fold. That then limits the need and the opportunity for Drury next season. Although a 4th line of Drury/Lorentz/UFA or Geekie probably would be pretty interesting.

I think Carolina is specifically building a roster that does not rely on ELC players contributing before they're NHL-ready. This is why they've been working the Boston or Tampa strategy on UFAs, aka. take a bit less to compete for cups.

Carolina, going forward as a cap team or a near cap team will have to rely on one or two ELCs annually....and introducing a philosophy of integrating a home grown rookie or two each year does wonders for youngsters (and convincing guys like Drury there really is an opportunity here).

Perhaps if a few of the Cane's players were a little more vocal and evangelistic about the perks of playing here, some of the intangibles could occasionally become tipping points? Recently, on SiriusNHL, when talking about Dougie and a few others, Obie talked about how many visiting players don't even like coming to Raleigh for games as it's "boring"; however, he also said players who join the team really like it and speak favorably re: living in the area. He felt like there's still a disconnect in the perception of what the experience is like within the league.

I never understood the "boring" comments. Sure we ain't Miami, Chicago, New York or LA. But with the "college town" trifecta or even quartet, there's always a ton of shit to do...it just isn't publicized. Plus, many of the good UFAs are really looking for that "family friendly" atmosphere.

Still, I get the point.....

 

[Vagrant]

Perhaps if a few of the Cane's players were a little more vocal and evangelistic about the perks of playing here, some of the intangibles could occasionally become tipping points? Recently, on SiriusNHL, when talking about Dougie and a few others, Obie talked about how many visiting players don't even like coming to Raleigh for games as it's "boring"; however, he also said players who join the team really like it and speak favorably re: living in the area. He felt like there's still a disconnect in the perception of what the experience is like within the league.

.
it's interesting, but i think this is already working for us in its inverse. the more rural canadian (finland?) kids take to this place like a fish to water because it's so much like home. friendly people, lake life and ocean life nearby, less glitz and temptation for the married guys or guys who may have gotten into some personal trouble due to the pace of the lifestyle in the bigger cities. enough attention in the area that it's quaint but nothing overbearing. raleigh has always been really good for players that needed to step back their off ice issues to focus on fixing their game. countless stories of players turning it around here or getting it back on track because of the lack of distractions. the evergreen bachelors have a little less fun here unless they're veterans of the area and know where to be, but all that extra nonsense isn't part of the fabric of this team the way it is with the rangers or vegas for example. it's a wholesome almost milquetoast departure that carries a heavy emphasis on character and winning. some guys don't actively realize that's what they need until they go somewhere else and get overwhelmed. i honestly think that personality element is part of what we look for when we get serious about the fit and trying to identify players that might thrive here. it's like adam fox. some kids want broadway. but for every one of those, there's usually some sod farmer's sons that like the pace around here just fine. it's tough to market to both audiences.

 

[LakeLivin]

I don't think there is any more room for not considering underestimating the importance of beginning to start the process of mulling over the conceptualization of starting to worry about Jack Drury leaving. The time to do it is very soon.

Aw man, now my head hurts!

 

[hblueridgegal]

Speaking of qualifications and good matches...


It would be interesting to see how many get crossed off the list for failing the culture test with RBA. From his presser the other day, he sounded very protective of the current situation.

 

[Unsustainable]

Speaking of qualifications and good matches...


It would be interesting to see how many get crossed off the list for failing the culture test with RBA. From his presser the other day, he sounded very protective of the current situation.

that is probably him lobbying to keep Martinook and McGinn

 

[Unsustainable]

My thoughts on Dougie, I think an 8yx7m is where the team is at offering. I think the question is he chasing a 9m per contract, but where does he want to end up also. 9m in Canada isn’t the same as 7m in Carolina, but it’s better in Florida, Nashville, Texas and Vegas in terms of taxes.

also, how much does he love it here, how much is he connected to Slavin being partners on ice, where he goes, would he have a Slavin partner again.

quiet life here, he can escape the hustle of big market teams here, go to the grocery store, museum or where ever and not be hounded.

 

[mikeyfan]

What would you think about this. A sign and trade of Hamilton at 8 X 8 for Tkachuk at 8x 8.5.

To me this would be a deal that would benefit both teams.

would the Canes also have to add one of the forward prospects?

 

[CanesFanBudMan]

What would you think about this. A sign and trade of Hamilton at 8 X 8 for Tkachuk at 8x 8.5.

To me this would be a deal that would benefit both teams.

would the Canes also have to add one of the forward prospects?

Dougie is not going back to Calgary so moot point

 

[Unsustainable]

Dougie is not going back to Calgary so moot point

and I don’t think Tkachuk can be extended till next year

 

[spockBokk]

What would you think about this. A sign and trade of Hamilton at 8 X 8 for Tkachuk at 8x 8.5.

To me this would be a deal that would benefit both teams.

would the Canes also have to add one of the forward prospects?

A sign and trade if Hamilton returns no where near that if he’s traded by CAR.

 

[spockBokk]

My thoughts on Dougie, I think an 8yx7m is where the team is at offering. I think the question is he chasing a 9m per contract, but where does he want to end up also. 9m in Canada isn’t the same as 7m in Carolina, but it’s better in Florida, Nashville, Texas and Vegas in terms of taxes.

also, how much does he love it here, how much is he connected to Slavin being partners on ice, where he goes, would he have a Slavin partner again.

quiet life here, he can escape the hustle of big market teams here, go to the grocery store, museum or where ever and not be hounded.

I think they’d go up to $7.5-7.75M easily, for 4-5 years. I don’t think for a second they’d go that high for the max term. It seems like term is the issue more than aav.

 

[Vagrant]

i don't think we're still in the dougie hamilton business. i think we are pretending to be for very good reasons. if the supposition is that we're letting dougie price the market to potentially match it, it's an entirely different trade dynamic than if we've made an assertion that he isn't going to be here regardless. it's a lot easier to take the "wait until july 1" line if you're certain his rights will make it there. lowballing dougie in this stage from another team could conceivably improve our situation with him. that helps dougie and his agent a lot, too. if you get a team hot after him because you've constructed a winning bid, they might be so drunk on that agreement that they pony up a little more than they were initially comfortable offering to eliminate the last threatening alternative to a huge free agent score. if they were sincere about keeping him, letting him hear pitches from other teams would border on foolish. this is one of those cases to me where the bidding war has a logical ceiling and floor and most teams are going to meet the salary in about the same place. if it makes sense, it feels less like a "he wants $11 million a season." situation and more like just a personal preference for where he would like to sign effectively the same deal that most interested teams are offering.

 

[cptjeff]

I wonder if a 7x9 gets it done for Tkachuk as an extension offer. I know he has a $9M QO, but I do think that as a true contender, a negotiation with Tkachuk and Carolina is likely to be much less contentious than the current Calgary situation.

I love the idea of Tkachuk, but that price truly makes me wince. Maybe it's worth swallowing if you can trade for him after the date formerly known as July 1 (it's the 22nd or something this year, right?) and you can go ahead and negotiate the extension. And ultimately, if a deal is there, and we've already lost Hamilton, the cap room would be there to do it. Would probably have to send somebody like Nino the other way to clear enough cap to get our new top 4 D, but ultimately, that's a move that could put us over the top.

 

[Derailed75]

Are there any examples of big time UFAs that bridged like that in lieu of chasing term?

If a player is hurt or badly underperformed recently, I would understand the motivation. Neither applies to him, though.

But we have also never dealt with top players hitting their prime contract during a pandemic induced flat cap era.

 

[spockBokk]

Foegele on the new “trade bait, but not really since it’s no longer a TSN thing” Seravalli list:

 

[Derailed75]

My thoughts on Dougie, I think an 8yx7m is where the team is at offering. I think the question is he chasing a 9m per contract, but where does he want to end up also. 9m in Canada isn’t the same as 7m in Carolina, but it’s better in Florida, Nashville, Texas and Vegas in terms of taxes.

also, how much does he love it here, how much is he connected to Slavin being partners on ice, where he goes, would he have a Slavin partner again.

quiet life here, he can escape the hustle of big market teams here, go to the grocery store, museum or where ever and not be hounded.

True but cost of living in South Beach, Tampa, Dallas, and Vegas is much higher. Does it wash taxes? IDK. I also dont know if Nashville COL is comparable to Raleigh or not. You would need about 8.5 million from a team in Canada to match 7 million from a US team. I would imagine COL being higher in Toronto and Montreal. Dont know about Van, Ednm, and Winn but I would think Calgary and Ontario would be comparable or less than Raleigh.

 

[Buenos Necas]

I love the idea of Tkachuk, but that price truly makes me wince. Maybe it's worth swallowing if you can trade for him after the date formerly known as July 1 (it's the 22nd or something this year, right?) and you can go ahead and negotiate the extension. And ultimately, if a deal is there, and we've already lost Hamilton, the cap room would be there to do it. Would probably have to send somebody like Nino the other way to clear enough cap to get our new top 4 D, but ultimately, that's a move that could put us over the top.

Yeah I agree, would love to make the move but the contract aspect is more worrisome to me than the trade acquisition cost. We'd need to be able to talk to his agent beforehand and be sure Dougie is gone. Like you said we would probably move Nino and I'd move Jarvis in the deal if need be, though I know that wouldn't be popular. But overall I won't be too upset if we end up going cheaper for our 4th D and allocate a bit more money to a top 6 upgrade.