Rumor: All Purpose Trade Proposals, Speculation and Rumours - 2023/24

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surixon

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We didn’t have allot to lose in 16-17 and the owner had a sold out building. We also had a really good prospect pool and that plan made allot of sense at the time.

You are right we were on the way up with that core who are now either in, or entering their 30’s. I agree we would be at the beginning of the backside notwithstanding replacements.

The more I look at what Chimpman is promoting (make the playoffs and anything can happen) the more I think our best case scenario will be the Minnesota Wild. Before people roll their eyes remember the Wild have been about as good as any team in the NHL at making the playoffs. I believe it’s been 9 times in the last 10 seasons up until they missed last year. The only reason they are missing now is they have a $14 million dollar dead cap hit.

Wild are the gold standard in the tier of good enough to make the playoffs but not good enough to win it all.

It seems to be what many mid markets are aiming for. Nashville isn't any different, they actually have an older core then us but aren't willing to rebuild. They keep making moves to compete. The Islanders are a lot like us, good goalie and a few core pieces but keep trying to sneak in. My guess is a lot of the botched rebuilds of mid to small markets has scared people.

Anaheim is going into year 7 of theirs and look nowhere close to competing.

Detroit is in year 9 of there's and due to shit lottery luck are only juat now a bubble team.

Buffalo is what 15 years out of the playoffs now.....

Columbus is a cluster f***.

Utah same as Columbus due to ownership.

The only mid market rebuild that has worked is Edmonton and imo that's only due to McJesus.
 

WolfHouse

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It seems to be what many mid markets are aiming for. Nashville isn't any different, they actually have an older core then us but aren't willing to rebuild. They keep making moves to compete. The Islanders are a lot like us, good goalie and a few core pieces but keep trying to sneak in. My guess is a lot of the botched rebuilds of mid to small markets has scared people.

Anaheim is going into year 7 of theirs and look nowhere close to competing.

Detroit is in year 9 of there's and due to shit lottery luck are only juat now a bubble team.

Buffalo is what 15 years out of the playoffs now.....

Columbus is a cluster f***.

Utah same as Columbus due to ownership.

The only mid market rebuild that has worked is Edmonton and imo that's only due to McJesus.
Not sure I would write Utah off
 

Heldig

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It seems to be what many mid markets are aiming for. Nashville isn't any different, they actually have an older core then us but aren't willing to rebuild. They keep making moves to compete. The Islanders are a lot like us, good goalie and a few core pieces but keep trying to sneak in. My guess is a lot of the botched rebuilds of mid to small markets has scared people.

Anaheim is going into year 7 of theirs and look nowhere close to competing.

Detroit is in year 9 of there's and due to shit lottery luck are only juat now a bubble team.

Buffalo is what 15 years out of the playoffs now.....

Columbus is a cluster f***.

Utah same as Columbus due to ownership.

The only mid market rebuild that has worked is Edmonton and imo that's only due to McJesus.
Utah is the next Avalanche to Colorado IMO. They are going to take off the next 2 seasons.
 
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Mortimer Snerd

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I think that if Chevy can get a really good return on McGroarty that fills an important gap, and Lambert and Salomonsson continue on their trajectory well above their draft positions, the Jets will be in a stronger position. I also think that Barlow has a chance to really "pop" as a prospect if he has a good summer of training and has an injury-free season. He's the type of forceful and rugged winger with v good scoring ability that can really complement a top-6 and juice a PP.

I would also reiterate how much additional value the Jets could probably get just by flipping Connor and Ehlers as Scheifele's LW. That one switch would likely compensate for a bit of a dip in goaltending.

The downside of a rebuild is that so many of them go off the rails because it's very tough to thread the needle in terms of optimizing competitive windows and a miss on a top-end draft pick basically torpedoes the entire plan. I don't think it's a more probable way to the top than the sort of strategy that Chevy has pursued, banking on some unexpected leaps by prospects and a good trade or two.

A lot of 'ifs' in that 1st paragraph. But yes, there is potential.

The way the McGro thing has gone so far I'm really dialing down my expectations for the return, though I am still hopeful.

The problem I see with Lambert, Salo and Barlow, etc, is that they are probably a year or two too late for the Scheifele/Helle window. Lambert finally gives us the 2C we have been needing just as Scheifele slides below 1C level. Salo replaces Pionk at 2RD but DeMelo can no longer manage 1RD. We are just marking time. The nice new players we have coming up just replace expiring assets.

We need to distinguish between a rebuild and a tank. A tank is scorched earth. The main point of failure is lack of veterans to lead the newly drafted young players. Or at least that is one key weakness. Timing is another. Collecting a bunch of 1st rd picks in a weak or shallow draft doesn't work very well. Ask Buffalo. The 23 draft would have been a good one to have a lot of picks in. 24 not so much, though it might turn out to have at least been fairly deep.

A rebuild can be a little less drastic. You retain enough vets to help the kids adapt to the NHL. You can still finish low enough to acquire a few very high level picks and you might get some lottery luck. We didn't tank in 16 but managed to finish in 6th draft spot and upgrade to 2nd in the lottery. Unfortunately 16 wasn't the best of draft classes. We had 2, 22 and 36. What would those picks have netted us in 23? In 23 those picks were Leo Carlsson, Oliver Bonk and Kasper Halttunen.

I'm interested in seeing how Chi does. They went the tank route but they have been acquiring a lot of formerly good vets to shelter/protect and mentor their young players. These were mid level players in their primes who should still command some respect from the kids. They are available to pretty much anyone in FA or trade. The plan appears to be to have them fill the roles that would otherwise have belonged to the in house vets after those guys were traded for picks.

It remains to be seen if Chevy can make the good trades needed. I like the strategy of rebuilding on the fly but I think that requires dropping down briefly to add a top player or two. Either that or some outstanding luck in the draft.
 

Mortimer Snerd

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I think there's a high level excitement and interest in seeing a future star develop but on a night in, night out basis that interest wanes pretty quick.

The difference now compared to 16 and 17 is it feels like the team is going down the slope of the mountain instead of climbing to the top.

Yes. That is a variation on my idea about expectations. It is an emotional thing rather than simply winning vs losing. Even though you may be winning more than losing the feeling is negative when you have that feeling of sliding downhill.

Personally, I didn't have any trouble maintaining interest while we built up to the 18 PO. The 2012 season was just getting to know the new team. In 13 it was, next year we add Scheifele. Then it was next year we add Ehlers. And we added Perreault. Then it was next year we add Morrissey and next year we add Connor. And so on. The thing that was hard to take in that period was Pavelec year after year but that itch eventually got scratched. And meantime he was the tank commander who kept getting us decent draft position.

What I'm getting at is that being a sports fan is an emotional thing, not a rational one. Even when your team is bad and everyone knows it there is an emotional reaction that keeps you buying tickets and watching games. There is an element of showing the world what kind of fans your team has. You will support them through thick and thin. You are still part of the tribe of Jets fans and we never quit. Of course, that does not apply to everyone but look at how Bomber fans supported their team through, what was it, 20, 30 years of crap.

OTOH, the reaction to some of the marketing mistakes TNSE has made is also emotional. People felt they were being taken for granted. Rightly or wrongly doesn't matter. Some quit buying season tickets as a result. That is another emotional response.
 
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Adam da bomb

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Using the other sport analogy, Ehlers is more of a run first QB whereas Patrik Laine can sit in the pocket and throw it down the field for a large gain is how I view him.
And using football I always found Vick more electrifying than manning. I love how the scramble quarterback makes something out of nothing. The pocket quarterback just looks effective.
 

Mortimer Snerd

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who cares. the fact anyone is talking about this turd and wanting him back on the Jets is shocking.

he's 100% a bust
emotionally unstable, entitled, and locker room cancer
physically he's a disaster , hasn't played a full season in the last 6 years in a row.
oh yeah, he hated it here and demanded a trade.


fuzzy warm memories of year one and year two belong in some nostalgia"remebering Pate" thread..., not "lets bring him back" discussion.

I never never never never never never never never never never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever want to see him anywhere NEAR the jets locker room again. and anyone who does? Isn't thinking about anything but thier own feelings of nostalgia.....and therefore aren't worth having a grownup discussion with.

You may be right that he is nearly finished, but you are overstating things.
"emotionally unstable, entitled, and locker room cancer", may be fair.
It is 5 seasons without playing a full season, not 6. 2 of those were shortened by Covid. He missed just 3 games in 20. Close enough to a full season, so it is 4 not 6. He missed 11 games in 21 so still 4 but missing 11 games is not that bad.
He didn't hate it here. He was dissatisfied with his usage. That dissatisfaction was unjustified. See entitled above. His agent hinted at a trade request so Chevy moved him when the opportunity came along. At the time, he seemed surprised and hurt by the trade. He has since spoken favourably about Wpg.

I'm not on the 'bring him back bus'. I would have him if the deal was right. No nostalgia involved.
 

Buffdog

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Yes. That is a variation on my idea about expectations. It is an emotional thing rather than simply winning vs losing. Even though you may be winning more than losing the feeling is negative when you have that feeling of sliding downhill.

Personally, I didn't have any trouble maintaining interest while we built up to the 18 PO. The 2012 season was just getting to know the new team. In 13 it was, next year we add Scheifele. Then it was next year we add Ehlers. And we added Perreault. Then it was next year we add Morrissey and next year we add Connor. And so on. The thing that was hard to take in that period was Pavelec year after year but that itch eventually got scratched. And meantime he was the tank commander who kept getting us decent draft position.

What I'm getting at is that being a sports fan is an emotional thing, not a rational one. Even when your team is bad and everyone knows it there is an emotional reaction that keeps you buying tickets and watching games. There is an element of showing the world what kind of fans your team has. You will support them through thick and thin. You are still part of the tribe of Jets fans and we never quit. Of course, that does not apply to everyone but look at how Bomber fans supported their team through, what was it, 20, 30 years of crap.

OTOH, the reaction to some of the marketing mistakes TNSE has made is also emotional. People felt they were being taken for granted. Rightly or wrongly doesn't matter. Some quit buying season tickets as a result. That is another emotional response.
Not all sports fans will share the same reactions

I don't react emotionally when the Jets lose. Why would I? The outcome of a hockey game is outside of my control, so there's no sense in letting it affect me

This sort of dovetails with a post of mine that you replied to regarding journey/destination. I believe you referred to roster building as the journey, which you're entitled to have as your opinion. I meant more the journey of just watching and enjoying whatever roster is assembled, win or lose
 

raideralex99

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Dec 18, 2015
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You may be right that he is nearly finished, but you are overstating things.
"emotionally unstable, entitled, and locker room cancer", may be fair.
It is 5 seasons without playing a full season, not 6. 2 of those were shortened by Covid. He missed just 3 games in 20. Close enough to a full season, so it is 4 not 6. He missed 11 games in 21 so still 4 but missing 11 games is not that bad.
He didn't hate it here. He was dissatisfied with his usage. That dissatisfaction was unjustified. See entitled above. His agent hinted at a trade request so Chevy moved him when the opportunity came along. At the time, he seemed surprised and hurt by the trade. He has since spoken favourably about Wpg.

I'm not on the 'bring him back bus'. I would have him if the deal was right. No nostalgia involved.
Isn't that the same problem the Jets are having with McGroarty right now?
His playing time ... wants to play right away and be on the PP .. right?
Seriously this wanting back Laine thing is insane.
The Jets top 6 is not the problem its their top 4 defensemen ... end of story.
Lets use the Bombers for analogue since its football season ... they can have the best WRs, RBs but if the QB can't get them the ball because the OL is bad ... getting another WR or RB is not going to solve the problem.
Jets need toughness on defense and at least another puck mover like Morrissey and then the Jets top 6 scoring will improve.
 

DRW204

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Dec 26, 2010
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The point was, that injury history has no bearing on the player itself. Rick Tocchet was injured frequently throughout his career and still played in over 1100 games through 18 seasons.

He stated that Patrik Laine publicly demanded a trade to the media. Patrik Laine never demanded a trade through the media. There is a difference between the player making the demands publicly and the agent.

I personally want a salary retained Patrik Laine knowing that he has a reputation for defensive deficiences which I don't even know if they have improved since leaving Winnipeg. I do remember Patrik Laine as the most electifying player offensively in 2.0 history.

I wish Patrik Laine started his career with Rick Bowness behind the bench and not Paul Maurice.
the comparison is stupid. laine isn't putting up 100+ pts in 50-60 gp like Mario Lemieux. there is no have a basis for comparison b/w those two. if he was putting up 100+ pts in 50-60 gp & one of the GOATs, sure everyone would be all over it & the injuries would be less of a talking point since he's one of the best in the NHL. but he isn't. & he's making nearly 9M on top of that, while currently recovering from (another) injury.

i dont care if it comes from the agent or the player. the agent speaks on the behalf of the player, and seldom would an NHL player adamantly request a trade in a public interview from their current respective team.

sure id want a retained laine as well. idk what the appetite is from CBJ retaining XXM dollars on Laine.
 
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ps241

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It seems to be what many mid markets are aiming for. Nashville isn't any different, they actually have an older core then us but aren't willing to rebuild. They keep making moves to compete. The Islanders are a lot like us, good goalie and a few core pieces but keep trying to sneak in. My guess is a lot of the botched rebuilds of mid to small markets has scared people.

Anaheim is going into year 7 of theirs and look nowhere close to competing.

Detroit is in year 9 of there's and due to shit lottery luck are only juat now a bubble team.

Buffalo is what 15 years out of the playoffs now.....

Columbus is a cluster f***.

Utah same as Columbus due to ownership.

The only mid market rebuild that has worked is Edmonton and imo that's only due to McJesus.

Yup Nashville is interesting because they have a nice stockpile of draft picks too from selling off assets. They have picked 6 times in the 1st round in the last 4 drafts. They should have some prospects on the way and in the meantime they are loading up with free agents to compete this year while they have prospects developing.

I also have respect for how Carolina has built what they have. I might come back to single them out as what I think the Jets could aspire to be more like but it’s a longer post and should probably stand on its own.

Detroit didn’t really bottom out quite enough (you’re right it was shit lottery luck) and their high water mark was only a 4th OA. At this point I am not sold their plan is working. The next few seasons there are pretty big and we’ll see if their prospect pool begins to bare enough fruit?

Buffalo is a right off. They are exhibit A of why you should be terrified of a full rebuild. Then ended up with two 1st OA’s and also two 2nd OA’s ……..plus five more top 10 picks. How the hell can you not build a monster out of that.
 
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Mortimer Snerd

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Not all sports fans will share the same reactions

I don't react emotionally when the Jets lose. Why would I? The outcome of a hockey game is outside of my control, so there's no sense in letting it affect me

This sort of dovetails with a post of mine that you replied to regarding journey/destination. I believe you referred to roster building as the journey, which you're entitled to have as your opinion. I meant more the journey of just watching and enjoying whatever roster is assembled, win or lose

:laugh: To each his own.
To me, your journey is more like riding a horse on a carousel. You travel, but you never go anywhere.

Do you react emotionally when they win?

Without the emotion, I just don't get it at all. It is just watching and appreciating other people's talent. But we can all enjoy it in our own ways. :thumbu:
 

Mortimer Snerd

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Isn't that the same problem the Jets are having with McGroarty right now?
His playing time ... wants to play right away and be on the PP .. right?
Seriously this wanting back Laine thing is insane.
The Jets top 6 is not the problem its their top 4 defensemen ... end of story.
Lets use the Bombers for analogue since its football season ... they can have the best WRs, RBs but if the QB can't get them the ball because the OL is bad ... getting another WR or RB is not going to solve the problem.
Jets need toughness on defense and at least another puck mover like Morrissey and then the Jets top 6 scoring will improve.

Yes and no. The top 6 also needs to improve their team D. (It was pretty good last year - with Vezinabuyck behind them.) But better Dmen behind them will lead to that too.

But I will come back to the same 2 fundamental needs, a 1/2RHD and a 1/2C. The top 6 is not going to be very good until we have 2 legit top 6 Cs.

And - you seem to be suggesting that the F corps is responsible for offense and the D corps is responsible for defence. I don't agree with that. It is an artifact of having named the back pair defencemen. Better they were just called backs or something. I think they should be a 5 man unit with everyone playing both O and D.
 
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VictoriaJetsFan

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I have to say Detroit and Buffalo are right there. If the Sabres don't make early mistakes in their rebuild they are in the playoffs.

Once one of Danielson, Edvinsson or Cossa becomes a regular for Detroit they will go on a long stretch of playoffs every year.

Imagine if they don't make the mistake of taking Zadina instead of Quinn Hughes.
 

voyageur

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I have to say Detroit and Buffalo are right there. If the Sabres don't make early mistakes in their rebuild they are in the playoffs.

Once one of Danielson, Edvinsson or Cossa becomes a regular for Detroit they will go on a long stretch of playoffs every year.

Imagine if they don't make the mistake of taking Zadina instead of Quinn Hughes.
I'd say goaltending for both teams is what has prevented their rise more than anything....Buffalo might have the edge there going forward, but that's where the puck stops, and you can't emphasize enough how much goaltending is often the difference between playoffs and golf.
 

FlappyGiraffe

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From a poster on the main boards:

"Article in Ilta-Sanomat (Finland) suggested a return to Winnipeg is in the works. Also discussed his friendship with Anton Lundell but no idea how Zito would pull that off cap wise."

Bit more smoke to the Laine stuff
 
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Potrzebie

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That finish reporter was probably listening to the Winnipeg media...
I went and read the article. Their source is a podcast with McIntyre and Paterson. 😀

christoph-waltz.gif
 

bumblebeeman

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Mar 16, 2016
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Isn't that the same problem the Jets are having with McGroarty right now?
His playing time ... wants to play right away and be on the PP .. right?
Seriously this wanting back Laine thing is insane.
The Jets top 6 is not the problem its their top 4 defensemen ... end of story.
Lets use the Bombers for analogue since its football season ... they can have the best WRs, RBs but if the QB can't get them the ball because the OL is bad ... getting another WR or RB is not going to solve the problem.
Jets need toughness on defense and at least another puck mover like Morrissey and then the Jets top 6 scoring will improve.

I mean they did just get 2 top 6 forwards as rentals, not defensemen
 
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