Rumor: All Purpose Trade Proposals, Speculation and Rumours - 2023/24

[Buffdog]

I'd say PLD fell into that category... so when you look at the collection of first round bargains we have traded for - its not small... if you include Armia, Stafford, Myers, Lemieux...

I'd hold off on this strategy until we see what Lambert, Chib, Salomondsson have... roster is basically set anyway - unless an Ehlers trade materializes which seems unlikely but Chevy does like to be off the radar until he's not

I was talking specifically about high-end first rounders.. like top 5 picks. I used KK, Kappo, Drysdale and Dach as examples. PLD certainly qualifies

Hopefully those young guys get a chance to show something soon and we can build around them

 

[surixon]

This is all an interesting discussion. As frustrating as it can be at times we really aren't operating all that differently from comparable markets. Teams like Minny, the Preds, Islanders etc are continuing to make moves to stay in the playoff picture and get in. Heck even many big markets like Philly are refusing to scortch earth tank.

I wonder if we might be seeing a bit of a paradigm shift. The scorched earth tanks haven't really been working out lately. Maybe most of the league is moving towards trying to compete but if your bad your bad and let the chips fall where they will system.

 

[Romang67]

I think there is a balance to be had between trading high picks for bad players year after year, and trading all our good players for picks and going full tank.

Hell of a lot easier to stumble upon diamonds in the rough when you don't average two draft picks fewer than the league average over a 7 year period.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

So what do you suggest to turn the roster turn-over? From Chipman's comments, full tank isn't an option. Trades are often limited by NTCs. UFAs won't come here, and that's probably a blessing

IDK. Our chance was last year with Scheif and Helle. Rumour was that there were no good offers for those 2. A little hard to believe but last year was unusual. Coming out of Covid and with the cap still restricted no one seemed interested in big trades so Chevy pivoted to competing with them.

But now we are locked in to the current core which I don't think is good enough. Maybe we get some of that draft luck if Lambert and Salomonsson fill our holes at 2C and 1/2RHD. If they can do that while Scheif and Helle are still performing at a high level we might have enough to get a shot. Maybe we get another good prospect for McGroarty. IDK about Ehlers. I will sure be pissed if we use him as an own rental and he walks.

 

[surixon]

If we want to retain Ehlers that Koecny deal is probably pretty close to what it will cost.

Their career ppg are pretty damn close a .75 for fly to .73 for Travis.

 

[snowkiddin]

I think there is a balance to be had between trading high picks for bad players year after year, and trading all our good players for picks and going full tank.

Hell of a lot easier to stumble upon diamonds in the rough when you don't average two draft picks fewer than the league average over a 7 year period.

This is where I’m at. Feels like the cupboards have been bare and in recent years we’ve had drafts where we’ve only brought in like, four new prospects.

 

[tbcwpg]

You make some good points. Certainly trying to beat the odds in the draft doesn't hold up to analysis - except for one thing. You don't need to beat it consistently. You just need that luck on your side a couple of times within a short period to equip you for 1 cycle. Then you get a turn of rising above mediocrity and going on a deep run or two and maybe, just maybe even win a Cup.

I question the assumption that the market can't/won't support a team trying to rebuild. Corporate ticket sales need to improve. Those are much less dependent on winning.

But I think another very big factor is expectations. There were several factors contributing to the recent weaker attendance, Covid, inflation, being taken for granted by management. But I think unmet expectations were also a large part of it. When expectations are high, even good results can be disappointing. When they are low, they can be exceeded and even poor results can be perceived as good.

Corporate sales do need to improve, yes, but I think the city wants to watch a winner, or at least a team that wins more often than not. I don't necessarily agree it's in relation to expectations. Certainly the economy plays a big factor but we saw at the end of the year that attendance improved when the playoffs were approaching and the team was involved.

This is all an interesting discussion. As frustrating as it can be at times we really aren't operating all that differently from comparable markets. Teams like Minny, the Preds, Islanders etc are continuing to make moves to stay in the playoff picture and get in. Heck even many big markets like Philly are refusing to scortch earth tank.

I wonder if we might be seeing a bit of a paradigm shift. The scorched earth tanks haven't really been working out lately. Maybe most of the league is moving towards trying to compete but if your bad your bad and let the chips fall where they will system.

I think there are maybe 4 or 5 teams that are purposely bad and the rest are trying to be as competitive as possible. I agree the tank method is too risky for most markets to bear. In the end, a lot of these markets have multiple sports teams competing for fans and they want to seem relevant.

My feeling on the league right now is that you either need to be a big/desirable market, or draft a superstar player to he consistently competitive at a "this team could go all the way" kind of level, and since we know Winnipeg isn't going to be the former, they need to get extremely lucky with a superstar. Otherwise you might see the occasional trip to the WCF but getting there consistently is going to be almost impossible. Seems negative, I know, but it feels like that's the way of the league right now.

 

[NA Hockey]

Corporate sales do need to improve, yes, but I think the city wants to watch a winner, or at least a team that wins more often than not. I don't necessarily agree it's in relation to expectations. Certainly the economy plays a big factor but we saw at the end of the year that attendance improved when the playoffs were approaching and the team was involved.



I think there are maybe 4 or 5 teams that are purposely bad and the rest are trying to be as competitive as possible. I agree the tank method is too risky for most markets to bear. In the end, a lot of these markets have multiple sports teams competing for fans and they want to seem relevant.

My feeling on the league right now is that you either need to be a big/desirable market, or draft a superstar player to he consistently competitive at a "this team could go all the way" kind of level, and since we know Winnipeg isn't going to be the former, they need to get extremely lucky with a superstar. Otherwise you might see the occasional trip to the WCF but getting there consistently is going to be almost impossible. Seems negative, I know, but it feels like that's the way of the league right now.

Only 4 teams make the CF's each year and in the era of parity it is unrealistic to set the bar at getting there regularly.

The occasional trip to the WCF would be fantastic given there 32 teams in the league. If theJets consistently make the playoffs and spend to the cap, I am not sure there is much more you can ask of them.

Drafting wisely, developing properly and spending to the cap are the tools that the Jets have at their disposal. A coaching change when need is another lever.

 

[Huffer]

So what do you suggest to turn the roster turn-over? From Chipman's comments, full tank isn't an option. Trades are often limited by NTCs. UFAs won't come here, and that's probably a blessing

If we want to retain Ehlers that Koecny deal is probably pretty close to what it will cost.

Their career ppg are pretty damn close a .75 for fly to .73 for Travis.

I'm not saying anything new here, but it's possible an option that the Jets might have to lean into (based on factors already discussed here like getting FA's, not looking to bottom out for multiple years, etc.), is that they might really have to embrace the Billicek / Buono school of moving on from players a year early to recoup assets, and using the resulting cap space and hopefully lesser assets to backfill. Basically a sell/buy type approach.

Using Ehlers as the example here, but it could easily be Connor as well in the future, the Jets could look to move him for one or two really good assets, including a 1st from a team you're thinking is on the bubble next year. You then look to backfill for cheaper than what you just got back for Ehlers. Like a Bjorkstrand situation from a few years ago, or the rumors that the Flyers could be interested in dealing Frost or Farabee. Just as an example, if you got the Sabres 2025 1st for Ehlers, and if you sent the Jets 2025 1st for Farabee, you have a chance to still compete (even if Farabee is a little less than Ehlers), and you have the chance to come out ahead on the trade aspect and draft a better player than you would have. And with some real luck (like the Avs had when the Sens traded their pick for Duchene and the Avs got 4th overall), you might get something impactful.

That's obviously not a fool proof plan because of all the moving parts so it's not something you can always bank on. And there are NTC's, etc as well to deal with. But it's a potential option IMO.

 

[KingBogo]

You make some good points. Certainly trying to beat the odds in the draft doesn't hold up to analysis - except for one thing. You don't need to beat it consistently. You just need that luck on your side a couple of times within a short period to equip you for 1 cycle. Then you get a turn of rising above mediocrity and going on a deep run or two and maybe, just maybe even win a Cup.

I question the assumption that the market can't/won't support a team trying to rebuild. Corporate ticket sales need to improve. Those are much less dependent on winning.

But I think another very big factor is expectations. There were several factors contributing to the recent weaker attendance, Covid, inflation, being taken for granted by management. But I think unmet expectations were also a large part of it. When expectations are high, even good results can be disappointing. When they are low, they can be exceeded and even poor results can be perceived as good.

The market will never support a deep rebuild? Who is going to go to games season after season of losing and out of the playoffs by Christmas? We will never have a quick bottom out and back to the top as that requires the ability to quickly add talent to your young stars through UFAs and trades to make up the high end complimentary pieces. Desirable markets like Chicago, LA, Florida and Tampa can do things like that. A team like Buffalo spends an eternity at the bottom and moves out their first generation of young stars then works on rebuild 2.0 and will soon start moving out those young stars for rebuild 3.0. Unless you get a generational player who drastically changes the the equation, your young stars won't stick around long enough to draft the complimentary pieces necessary.

 

[KingBogo]

If we want to retain Ehlers that Koecny deal is probably pretty close to what it will cost.

Their career ppg are pretty damn close a .75 for fly to .73 for Travis.

The Jets will never go 8 X $8.75 M for Ehlers. Helly and Schiefele will be the internal ceiling. Also way too risky to give that type of money and term to a player so dependent on his speed to be a zone entry machine. Once the speed goes Ehlers game takes a drastic hit.

 

[surixon]

The Jets will never go 8 X $8.75 M for Ehlers. Helly and Schiefele will be the internal ceiling. Also way too risky to give that type of money and term to a player so dependent on his speed to be a zone entry machine. Once the speed goes Ehlers game takes a drastic hit.

I wouldn't do it either as I think you can only have so many long term big money deals to players at the end of their prime years. As mentioned we already have two. I'm not really keen to add ones to both KC and Fly for their decline years as well.

But his agent will want that deal and has a good case.

 

[KingBogo]

I wouldn't do it either as I think you can only have so many long term big money deals to players at the end of their prime years. As mentioned we already have two. I'm not really keen to add ones to both KC and Fly for their decline years as well.

But his agent will want that deal and has a good case.

Agreed, that why I think Ehlers ultimately gets moved. It just gets riskier once the season gets started.

 

[WolfHouse]

I was talking specifically about high-end first rounders.. like top 5 picks. I used KK, Kappo, Drysdale and Dach as examples. PLD certainly qualifies

Hopefully those young guys get a chance to show something soon and we can build around them

Seems like you're limiting yourself... a realistic cutoff for talent in a draft is usually top 12-15... if a team is trading a top 5 project it probably means he's beyond project

 

[JetsFan815]

If we want to retain Ehlers that Koecny deal is probably pretty close to what it will cost.

Their career ppg are pretty damn close a .75 for fly to .73 for Travis.

I have been comfortable offering that to Ehlers and been saying he should get matching deals to 55 and 37. Ehlers is a better player than Konecny anyways. I'd much rather offer than to Ehlers than offer 10million+ to Connor which the org will more likely to do if Ehlers is not here.

 

[MardyBum]

The Jets will never go 8 X $8.75 M for Ehlers. Helly and Schiefele will be the internal ceiling. Also way too risky to give that type of money and term to a player so dependent on his speed to be a zone entry machine. Once the speed goes Ehlers game takes a drastic hit.

Ignoring Ehlers, that's an insane internal ceiling in the NHL, unless you meant specifically for Ehlers and specifically for this year(which I disagree with but I can understand why).

Scheif already isn't worth his contract, maybe he gets back to being a very good 1C.

The Jets will be competing for zero cups for the next 7 years with that ceiling. That means no one is worth breaking it

 

[KingBogo]

Ignoring Ehlers, that's an insane internal ceiling in the NHL, unless you meant specifically for Ehlers and specifically for this year(which I disagree with but I can understand why).

Scheif already isn't worth his contract, maybe he gets back to being a very good 1C.

The Jets will be competing for zero cups for the next 7 years with that ceiling. That means no one is worth breaking it

It is the internal ceiling for anyone that is currently part of our core. Of course it doesn’t include anyone not part of the team. That part should be obvious but I guess it wasn’t.

 

[surixon]

It is the internal ceiling for anyone that is currently part of our core. Of course it doesn’t include anyone not part of the team. That part should be obvious but I guess it wasn’t.

What if say Perfetti signs a bridge and then goes off for a couple ppg years. Is that still the ceiling when ppg players coming off bridge deals are getting 9.5 plus million?

If the Jets operate like that and one or two of their young players go off they won't be able to retain them if they are that rigid. Retirement deals to aging players should never be seen as the ceiling imo.

 

[DRW204]

What if say Perfetti signs a bridge and then goes off for a couple ppg years. Is that still the ceiling when ppg players coming off bridge deals are getting 9.5 plus million?

If the Jets operate like that and one or two of their young players go off they won't be able to retain them if they are that rigid. Retirement deals to aging players should never be seen as the ceiling imo.

Ignoring Ehlers, that's an insane internal ceiling in the NHL, unless you meant specifically for Ehlers and specifically for this year(which I disagree with but I can understand why).

Scheif already isn't worth his contract, maybe he gets back to being a very good 1C.

The Jets will be competing for zero cups for the next 7 years with that ceiling. That means no one is worth breaking it

It is the internal ceiling for anyone that is currently part of our core. Of course it doesn’t include anyone not part of the team. That part should be obvious but I guess it wasn’t.

70+ pt players just signed above 8.5M.

Everyone wants a top quality RHD those guys may be above 8.5m.

You artificially limit yourself with that thinking.

 

[Jet]

A lot of interesting opinions here but I'd say, and I'm not putting this all on 37, if Hellebuyck played at a Vezina level in the playoffs I think we'd already be a cup winner (in 18).

 

[voyageur]

I think there is a balance to be had between trading high picks for bad players year after year, and trading all our good players for picks and going full tank.

Hell of a lot easier to stumble upon diamonds in the rough when you don't average two draft picks fewer than the league average over a 7 year period.

I'd say trading late 1sts 3 times has had mixed results...Stastny was great, absolutely made a difference...Trading for Hayes not so much, but I wonder if Chevy already knew Trouba's play and that at least got him a draft pick back...Monahan definitely helped the team on the PP, but I think fans would have been equally mad if he ended up in Edmonton and Chevy did nothing with a team playing with confidence.

Then you consider that picks traded for Morrow, Beaulieu, De Melo, Stastny (2nd time), Nino, Miller were all players that re-signed and it's hard to say if any of these guys would have considered the Jets if they hadn't got into the dressing room and felt like they wanted to be here...

Dillon trade brought toughness that was badly needed after losing Buff, so that's a tough one to argue...

Schmidt was endorsed by a player who re-signed we'll never know as fans what he brought to the team, but again with a team that was too serious maybe his presence was needed...

Toffoli trade and the 7th for a guy who never played a game are the only 2 trades that you wonder about, and Toffoli had a lot to do with Vilardi's health.

The big thing is hitting on picks...you get guys like Appleton with a 6th, personally I think he has been better than Roslovic (1st) as a checking line winger.

Hellebuyck is the coup...

I'm excited about Milic and Julien...

The cupboards aren't bare with prospects...But the development angle is fundamental...Going with 3 rookie centers on the Moose last year was a testament that winning at the farm level was not the ultimate goal...carving out roles was.

 

[MardyBum]

It is the internal ceiling for anyone that is currently part of our core. Of course it doesn’t include anyone not part of the team. That part should be obvious but I guess it wasn’t.

They're not signing a FA who is worth anywhere near that, ever, so that means nothing. So it's an internal ceiling where no one can make more than 8.25 because a goalie and a good 1C make that? If Vilardi goes off for 90 points, time to grind him down to 8 because Shark Meifele?

I get it for arguing against Ehlers or Connor with their ages on re-signing (though they just did it with Scheifele), but 8.25 is nothing for young top line talent now, let alone in a year or two.

 

[Buffdog]

It is the internal ceiling for anyone that is currently part of our core. Of course it doesn’t include anyone not part of the team. That part should be obvious but I guess it wasn’t.

I think Schief and Helle would both be thrilled oif someone like vilardi or perfetti earned themselves a contract bigger than theirs.

They want to win, and that would mean that the team improved that much

 

[DRW204]

They're not signing a FA who is worth anywhere near that, ever, so that means nothing. So it's an internal ceiling where no one can make more than 8.25 because a goalie and a good 1C make that? If Vilardi goes off for 90 points, time to grind him down to 8 because Shark Meifele?

I get it for arguing against Ehlers or Connor with their ages on re-signing (though they just did it with Scheifele), but 8.25 is nothing for young top line talent now, let alone in a year or two.

 

[Bob E]

Still need a 2C.

Wash. Rinse. Repeat.