Rumor: All Purpose Trade Proposals, Speculation and Rumours - 2023/24

[Flair Hay]

Still wonder if Chevy didn't sign toffoli to replace vilardi and not perfetti... just in case he wasn't ready after surgery

Timelines fit better and we have just misread it as a perfetti upgrade...

I wouldn't agree with this.

It was a nice contingency.

But as I remember it Bowness was beginning to bump Perfetti down the lineup at times during games. Mentioning he didnt like him as much on his off wing. Then 4th line to start for a few games. Then scratched and back in after a couple games...

The writing was on the wall they wanted a RS winger to replace Perfetti. And they got one with a history of big goals who could put the puck in the net.

We just didn't have the second play driver or defensive forward on his line he needs to mitigate his flaws.

I am also against TD acquisitions but thought this year it was worth a chance. It didn't work out obviously but I won't criticize Chevy for trying. Having said this it sure tucked not having a 1st round draft pick this year so hopefully it doesn't become a habit. Winnipeg needs those picks to survive as a franchise.

Agreed, there was reason to take a shot and the result didn't work out. But we needed to know what this group would do after the regular season they put together and some proper injury depth.

 

[Flair Hay]

Well said. Perhaps if they do want to add they need to vet the players better before they do it. We've really only gotten it right once at the deadline with Stastny.

I think the players they got were fine, and did their jobs they were brought in to do.

I didn't sense any lack of effort from either.

Monahan gave the PP a big boost and took a lot of big faceoffs. Ate some PK minutes.

Toffoli did what he does - not much besides putting the puck in the net from spots a lot of guys can't.

Our D system got exposed and it was too late before we could adjust to the Avs plan.

Once you lose your confidence in playoffs it takes a real seasoned team to get it back. It's usually a slow choke hold the other team has they never let go of. Colorado maybe a quick re-apply of the choke hold each time we struggled is a good analogy, lol

 

[Flair Hay]

I don't know how I feel about this. Chevy has shown to be a masterful negotiator and not prone to do wild things to damage the org long term.

I would be open to making him President of Hockey Ops, be a key in negotiating but have a new GM to give unique input and push him out of his comfort zone a bit.

Yeah he seems like an amazing advisor and patient, methodical leader.

Sometimes it feels like it would be nice to have a fresh leader as GM who is not afraid to take calculated risks frequently.

The aggressive young GM and the experienced former GM as the gatekeeper to avoid those bone head mistake trades or signings the new guys can tend to make.

 

[surixon]

I think the players they got were fine, and did their jobs they were brought in to do.

I didn't sense any lack of effort from either.

Monahan gave the PP a big boost and took a lot of big faceoffs. Ate some PK minutes.

Toffoli did what he does - not much besides putting the puck in the net from spots a lot of guys can't.

Our D system got exposed and it was too late before we could adjust to the Avs plan.

Once you lose your confidence in playoffs it takes a real seasoned team to get it back. It's usually a slow choke hold the other team has they never let go of. Colorado maybe a quick re-apply of the choke hold each time we struggled is a good analogy, lol

The issue is both those players greatly impacted our team speed negatively. As we saw neither could keep up against the Avs.

Our PP got marginally better with Sean for a bit but it wasn't much better then it was with Perfetti was on pp1 earlier in the year.

It's not just about adding good players it's about adding the right fit. I was ok with Sean nut thought Toffoli was a terrible fit from day one. We didn't need a slow one dimensional scorer we either needed an all around top 6 player with pace to better fit the system or a good dmen.

 

[tbcwpg]

Am I crazy or is this not arguably the best way?

It feels like this is what CHI, LA, and more recently TB did.

Doesn't mean it's easy or that there isn't a lot of luck involved. I think it has been a successful blueprint in the past.

Maybe I'm oversimplifying it.

I think you're discounting that those teams you listed were able to draft hall of fame level talent at multiple positions during that time. Even then, those teams made moves to bring in other top to mid level talent to augment the core they had.

You might get lucky like the 2018 Jets and go on a run with that strategy but it's not building a multi-year contender.

 

[WolfHouse]

Vilardi was injured before TD ...

Vilardi was injured before TD ...

 

[WolfHouse]

I think you're discounting that those teams you listed were able to draft hall of fame level talent at multiple positions during that time. Even then, those teams made moves to bring in other top to mid level talent to augment the core they had.

You might get lucky like the 2018 Jets and go on a run with that strategy but it's not building a multi-year contender.

This brings up the topic of Mark Hillier's scouting team then... why are we not finding guys that break down the door...

 

[tbcwpg]

This brings up the topic of Mark Hillier's scouting team then... why are we not finding guys that break down the door...

Because the team is good enough to not do that. Also not every draft has that level of talent.

Chicago drafted Toews at 3 and Kane at 1. LA drafted Doughty at 2nd, Kopitar was 11. Stamkos and Hedman went 1 and 2. Vasilevskiy went high Edmonton got McDavid and Draisaitl within the top 5. Malkin and Crosby, Fleury. There's some luck in being bad during a draft year with players like this available AND finding the occasional nut in a later round.

 

[WolfHouse]

Because the team is good enough to not do that. Also not every draft has that level of talent.

Chicago drafted Toews at 3 and Kane at 1. LA drafted Doughty at 2nd, Kopitar was 11. Stamkos and Hedman went 1 and 2. Vasilevskiy went high Edmonton got McDavid and Draisaitl within the top 5. Malkin and Crosby, Fleury. There's some luck in being bad during a draft year with players like this available AND finding the occasional nut in a later round.

Except we are not good enough... if we were we wouldn't have added three guys at TD - and every TD actually... we are 'winnipeg good enough'

I'm not talking about those guys I'm talking about a roope hintz

 

[tbcwpg]

Except we are not good enough... if we were we wouldn't have added three guys at TD - and every TD actually... we are 'winnipeg good enough'

I'm not talking about those guys I'm talking about a roope hintz

Good enough as in not top 5 in the draft good enough.

Dallas has won 0 Cups with Roope Hintz. Also Dallas has been able to add players to their drafted pool of prospects that I don't believe Winnipeg would be able to do for the usual reasons. Also Flair Hay mentioned those 3 teams specifically so I responded to those.

 

[ps241]

Good enough as in not top 5 in the draft good enough.

Dallas has won 0 Cups with Roope Hintz. Also Dallas has been able to add players to their drafted pool of prospects that I don't believe Winnipeg would be able to do for the usual reasons. Also Flair Hay mentioned those 3 teams specifically so I responded to those.

Respectfully, whats the plan for the Jets? We are not a contender.

 

[bumblebeeman]

Respectfully, whats the plan for the Jets? We are not a contender.

Seems like the plan is to keep making the playoffs and hope Helle can carry the team to a cup. Imo as long as he's a top goalie the Jets are contenders

 

[tbcwpg]

Respectfully, whats the plan for the Jets? We are not a contender.

Seems like it's to make the playoffs each season and maybe make a run one or two of those times. I don't think they believe the fan support is there attendance wise for a longer term rebuild and I think last year kind of proved that.

 

[WolfHouse]

Respectfully, whats the plan for the Jets? We are not a contender.

Get a statue for Scheifele... then TNSE sells the Jets just before a rebuild - keep the Financials solid

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

You can question it but the question loses some bite when you're not willing to have paid the price to get the player. The additions definitely didn't help in the PO but I'm not sure they were actively hurting the team. Monahan was a great add during the season as well.

Monahan helped the PP. He did no better that Namestnikov at 2C. Jets winning % was higher before we got Monahan.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I am also against TD acquisitions but thought this year it was worth a chance. It didn't work out obviously but I won't criticize Chevy for trying. Having said this it sure sucked not having a 1st round draft pick this year so hopefully it doesn't become a habit. Winnipeg needs those picks to survive as a franchise.

I was on board with getting rentals this season too - for the 1st time ever.

I agree with not criticizing Chevy for trying. The specific players he got invite some criticism of him and/or the pro scouts. Scouts also rebound onto the GM. He hires them. Pro scouting has appeared to be a problem for years. Maybe it is Chevy.

 

[KingBogo]

Respectfully, whats the plan for the Jets? We are not a contender.

We were in the regular season finishing 4th overall in points, and leading the league in goals against. No doubt we shit the bed in the playoffs, but the organization is not going to just throw away last regular season's success. The organization has invested heavily in its current core and will ride them for a few years yet. Ideally we make room for our most promising prospects and see if they can be an upgrade over some of our more expensive bottom of the lineup players. This would also help free up cap space over the next couple years to hopefully add some talent. Chevy might have a move or 2 yet before the start of the season. Either way the plan will be to be as competitive as possible.

 

[Hank Chinaski]

Monahan helped the PP. He did no better that Namestnikov at 2C. Jets winning % was higher before we got Monahan.

You know… this lines up with my perception of Monahan as well (great in the PP bumper spot, mediocre at 5v5). It’s interesting to see that his PP production was negligible: 3G and 2A. So not that productive with the man advantage, and a lot of empty calorie point production at 5v5.

(Oh but those faceoffs. Those precious, precious FO wins he gave us…)

 

[KingBogo]

I was on board with getting rentals this season too - for the 1st time ever.

I agree with not criticizing Chevy for trying. The specific players he got invite some criticism of him and/or the pro scouts. Scouts also rebound onto the GM. He hires them. Pro scouting has appeared to be a problem for years. Maybe it is Chevy.

The problem is there is only so many players available, and the best of them usually have some sort of trade protection. You can scout players until the cows come home, but it is meaningless if the player says no thanks.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Because the team is good enough to not do that. Also not every draft has that level of talent.

Chicago drafted Toews at 3 and Kane at 1. LA drafted Doughty at 2nd, Kopitar was 11. Stamkos and Hedman went 1 and 2. Vasilevskiy went high Edmonton got McDavid and Draisaitl within the top 5. Malkin and Crosby, Fleury. There's some luck in being bad during a draft year with players like this available AND finding the occasional nut in a later round.

This is an argument for a tank.

(And yes, I know you don't intend it to be)

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Except we are not good enough... if we were we wouldn't have added three guys at TD - and every TD actually... we are 'winnipeg good enough'

I'm not talking about those guys I'm talking about a roope hintz

Getting those kind of players later in the draft is wayyyy more luck than good drafting. If you knew they would be that good, you would not risk losing them by not taking them as soon as you could. Dallas has either been phenomenally good at development or they have been very lucky.

 

[KingBogo]

This is an argument for a tank.

(And yes, I know you don't intend it to be)

Those teams that were able to successfully tank also had the advantage of being in desirable markets, so they were able to add good complimentary pieces through free agency and the players wanted to stay after their initial 7 year team control when a player can choose where they wanted to play. Look at the teams that tanked in less desirable markets. They haven't faired quite as well.

 

[surixon]

Those teams that were able to successfully tank also had the advantage of being in desirable markets, so they were able to add good complimentary pieces through free agency and the players wanted to stay after their initial 7 year team control when a player can choose where they wanted to play. Look at the teams that tanked in less desirable markets. They haven't faired quite as well.

What you need is the storm of bad events such as an extreme injury year to tank and get that elite player ala the Avs when they got Makar. You then rebound back but have that franchise alternating talent. But that can't be planned for.

 

[tbcwpg]

This is an argument for a tank.

(And yes, I know you don't intend it to be)

It's not an argument for a tank, because the point was the show how lucky you have to be to tank and do what those teams did.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

The problem is there is only so many players available, and the best of them usually have some sort of trade protection. You can scout players until the cows come home, but it is meaningless if the player says no thanks.

Sure. But you don't necessarily then take whatever is out there. If they are not good, you pass.

It is hindsight but once Lindholm was gone should we have acquired a C at all? Was there one available who would make a difference on the Jets? I had reservations about Monahan but I was on board with it at the time in spite of them. Lindholm had been priced too high. I would not have wanted to outbid Canucks. Monahan was the next best. Maybe there was some other player who might have been a better fit. If not, doing nothing would have been acceptable.

Maybe Monahan would have been more successful if we had not added a second slow player in Toffoli.

Hindsight and speculation at this point. I was in favour of going for it at the time. Unfortunately it didn't work out. Reinforced my dislike of higher end TD rentals for the future.

It's not an argument for a tank, because the point was the show how lucky you have to be to tank and do what those teams did.

Except it also suggested that it was a necessary step to winning.

(and no, I am not arguing for a tank so don't bother telling me what a bad idea it would be)