Rumor: All Purpose Trade Proposals, Speculation and Rumours - 2023/24

[Buffdog]

Trying to think if perfetti played during arniels head coaching run last season

I wanna say he did, and Arniel even had him out late in a game while they were up

That's just via memory though

 

[surixon]

Trying to think if perfetti played during arniels head coaching run last season

He played more under Arniel then under Bones. As mentioned Arniel had no issue deploying him late in games and with the EN.

I think he'll have a much better relationship with Scott then Bones.

He also was a ppg player with 13 points in 13 games.

 

[Hunter368]

He played more under Arniel then under Bones. As mentioned Arniel had no issue deploying him late in games and with the EN.

I think he'll have a much better relationship with Scott then Bones.

He also was a ppg player with 13 points in 13 games.

Yup, Cole even referenced that when Scott was named how well he played for him and how he looked forward to him as the HC.

 

[ps241]

He played more under Arniel then under Bones. As mentioned Arniel had no issue deploying him late in games and with the EN.

I think he'll have a much better relationship with Scott then Bones.

He also was a ppg player with 13 points in 13 games.

Our team needs its top prospects to grow into key contributors if we want to keep the trains running on time. That is the harsh reality for an NHL team in Winnipeg. If a kid like Alfie can grow into an impact defenseman….if a kid like Lambert can be a “good” 2nd line centre (or better), if a player like Cole can take over the scoring lead for the Jets in the next 2-3 seasons…..If Barlow can eventually become a 30 goal scorer……..These are all possibilities and of course there are a lower range of way less awesome outcomes.

Will some or any of this happen, I don’t know, but without some replacement push from below we will wither.

 

[surixon]

Our team needs its top prospects to grow into key contributors if we want to keep the trains running on time. That is the harsh reality for an NHL team in Winnipeg. If a kid like Alphie can grow into an impact defenseman….if a kid like Lambert can be a “good” 2nd line centre (or better), if a player like Cole can take over the scoring lead for the Jets in the next 2-3 seasons…..If Barlow can eventually become a 30 goal scorer……..These are all possibilities and of course there is a lower range of way less awesome outcomes.

Will some or any of this happen, I don’t know but without some replacement push from below we will wither.

I 100% agree which is why I've been dissapointed by how the team has integrated its younget players. You need to reward performance with increased roles and that hasn't happened since the KC group. We have kept the kids we have integrated in sheltered roles with limited minutes. For them to grow you need to stretch them out and that was really slow to happen under Moe and Bones. Both opted to keep trotting out vets.

 

[LowLefty]

I 100% agree which is why I've been dissapointed by how the team has integrated its younget players. You need to reward performance with increased roles and that hasn't happened since the KC group. We have kept the kids we have integrated in sheltered roles with limited minutes. For them to grow you need to stretch them out and that was really slow to happen under Moe and Bones. Both opted to keep trotting out vets.

IMO, It's not coaching that has held back prospects - it's the org's want and need to be a playoff team with a chance to win - so they add what they think will be difference makers at the deadline.
It's easy to second guess the results after the fact - but most were in full support of the orgs recent deadline moves and most thought the adds made us better.
That being said, I agree they need to integrate youth and show patience - but this org will likely continue to add when they see an opportunity and the young guys may sit in those situations. But it isn't coaching that is making those decisions - and I'm speaking primarily about our top 6.

What really needs to happen is our young guys need to play well and make those moves unnecessary - and the good news is, there appears to be a spot or two available - up front and on the blueline. I look forward to seeing how that hashes out - and I hope they play well enough to avoid those late moves.

 

[surixon]

IMO, It's not coaching that has held back prospects - it's the org's want and need to be a playoff team with a chance to win - so they add what they think will be difference makers at the deadline.
It's easy to second guess the results after the fact - but most were in full support of the orgs recent deadline moves and most thought the adds made us better.
That being said, I agree they need to integrate youth and show patience - but this org will likely continue to add when they see an opportunity and the young guys may sit in those situations. But it isn't coaching that is making those decisions - and I'm speaking primarily about our top 6.

What really needs to happen is our young guys need to play well and make those moves unnecessary - and the good news is, there appears to be a spot or two available - up front and on the blueline. I look forward to seeing how that hashes out - and I hope they play well enough to avoid those late moves.

Oh I'm sure pressure from ownership hasn't helped matters. I'd argue the youth on the team have earned much better with their play but haven't been advanced due to a preference of vet players. I'm sure some is org and some is coaching preference.

Anyhow the vets the org tried to retain/brong in rebuffed the org this summer which will force them to give bigger opportunities to youngsters even if they don't want to.

 

[LowLefty]

Oh I'm sure pressure from ownership hasn't helped matters. I'd argue the youth on the team have earned much better with their play but haven't been advanced due to a preference of vet players. I'm sure some is org and some is coaching preference.

Anyhow the vets the org tried to retain/brong in rebuffed the org this summer which will force them to give bigger opportunities to youngsters even if they don't want to.

And who signed the vet players?
This is all about the org and how they intend to make the PO's at any cost -
Do you think Bones was going to sit the guys his GM went out and grabbed at the deadline?

 

[surixon]

And who signed the vet players?
This is all about the org and how they intend to make the PO's at any cost -
Do you think Bones was going to sit the guys his GM went out and grabbed at the deadline?

I mean sure he brought them in but I doubt Chevy is making all these calls in a vacuum. I'm sure Bones and Maurice had input. Hence players the coaching staff were familiar with like Namestnikov, Toffoli etc were brought in. Guys like Kulikov, and Schmidt signing in Florida. I'm sure both signings were influenced by Maurice.

This isn't just about Perfetti this is about and probably more so about Snerg. Snerg has been used exclusively as the 6th dmen since breaking in 2 and a half years ago. Despite arguably having outplayed all dmen sans the top pairing he's never been given a legit look in the top 4. Heck it seems like the prg was trying to bring back Dillon hence freezing him put of the top 4 for another year atleast. At which point Snerg is a year towards UFA and has no incentive to stay. What is the plan here? You have a prospect you invest all this time and resources in and never see if they can carry the load on the second pairing until forced to due to a vet choosing to move on. Just seems like the planning is in shambles here.

I agree almost everything has been about very short term results and it will catch up to the org at some point. The vets will fall off and the kids that haven't asked out due to lack of opportunity won't be ready for increased roles.

 

[LowLefty]

I mean sure he brought them in but I doubt Chevy is making all these calls in a vacuum. I'm sure Bones and Maurice had input. Hence players the coaching staff were familiar with like Namestnikov, Toffoli etc were brought in. Guys like Kulikov, and Schmidt signing in Florida. I'm sure both signings were influenced by Maurice.

This isn't just about Perfetti this is about and probably more so about Snerg. Snerg has been used exclusively as the 6th dmen since breaking in 2 and a half years ago. Despite arguably having outplayed all dmen sans the top pairing he's never been given a legit look in the top 4. Heck it seems like the prg was trying to bring back Dillon hence freezing him put of the top 4 for another year atleast. At which point Snerg is a year towards UFA and has no incentive to stay. What is the plan here? You have a prospect you invest all this time and resources in and never see if they can carry the load on the second pairing until forced to due to a vet choosing to move on. Just seems like the planning is in shambles here.

I agree almost everything has been about very short term results and it will catch up to the org at some point. The vets will fall off and the kids that haven't asked out due to lack of opportunity won't be ready for increased roles.

OK - maybe they had input - but you're calling out coaching with no mention of the guy that is responsible for making the moves - at least that was what the original post left me thinking.
Snerg is the same story - who brought in Dillon and Smitty?
I get that someone has to be blamed for our beloved youth not getting a fair shake - but it ain't the coach you should be pointing at.
I also want to see the young guys getting more of a shot - but chevy's the guy behind the roster and blaming the coach for playing the guys his boss signed, is a stretch.

 

[ps241]

And who signed the vet players?
This is all about the org and how they intend to make the PO's at any cost -
Do you think Bones was going to sit the guys his GM went out and grabbed at the deadline?

I look at last season as potentially the high water mark this core will achieve as far as regular season record and I think the org might begin to plan/expend assets accordingly. Everything went right last regular season. Do I think they want to make the playoffs every season….hell yes. Do I think they need to go all in at the TD like last year giving up the better part of a draft class, hell no. They were going all in on a team that finished 4th in the regular season and they gave it their shot which is why most fans seemed ok at that time. That was this cores shot at the cup.

I am expecting the team to find the balance between net seller and net buyer moving forward. We need to land more draft picks to keep building the pipeline if we want to fuel the plan.

 

[surixon]

OK - maybe they had input - but you're calling out coaching with no mention of the guy that is responsible for making the moves - at least that was what the original post left me thinking.
Snerg is the same story - who brought in Dillon and Smitty?
I get that someone has to be blamed for our beloved youth not getting a fair shake - but it ain't the coach you should be pointing at.
I also want to see the young guys getting more of a shot - but chevy's the guy behind the roster and blaming the coach for playing the guys his boss signed, is a stretch.

I blame the coach mostly because from most of what we've heard the coach has a great deal of autonomy to set his lineup.

While yes Chevy traded for those vets he also drafted and signed those kids. So he used assets to acquire both, more valuable assets for say Perfetti (top 10 pick for instance). So why should the coach rate one group acquired by the GM higher then an other? The GM provided the coach with both and the coach used the pieces as he saw fit.

I think it's lazy to say a GM needs to not bring in certain pieces for the coach to use other pieces appropriately. A coach who has autonomy should be able to make efficient lineup decisions.

 

[BobTheSolarsystem]

You could say the enstrom for Suzuki pick was the turning point from draft and develop... we have never really gotten back to it

 

[Buffdog]

And who signed the vet players?
This is all about the org and how they intend to make the PO's at any cost -
Do you think Bones was going to sit the guys his GM went out and grabbed at the deadline?

FWIW, I had the chance to sit and have a very candid chat with Jamie Kompon over beers in April 2017

The convo came around to the season the Jets had just finished (out of the playoffs), but it was the year they demoted Pavelec and gave the reigns to Helle. He mentionned that the order came for Chevy down to Maurice to "play the kids", with the idea that any losses wouldn't be held against PoMo because the whole point of the season was to get the younger players reps

My point is that ultimately, the coach will take direction (for the most part) from the GM, who takes his direction from whomever.

 

[Weezeric]

I look at last season as potentially the high water mark this core will achieve as far as regular season record and I think the org might begin to plan/expend assets accordingly. Everything went right last regular season. Do I think they want to make the playoffs every season….hell yes. Do I think they need to go all in at the TD like last year giving up the better part of a draft class, hell no. They were going all in on a team that finished 4th in the regular season and they gave it their shot which is why most fans seemed ok at that time. That was this cores shot at the cup.

I am expecting the team to find the balance between net seller and net buyer moving forward. We need to land more draft picks to keep building the pipeline if we want to fuel the plan.

If by everything went right you mean that the Jets had two top line players have major knee injuries and their best young player slumped for half a season, then sure…

 

[ps241]

If by everything went right you mean that the Jets had two top line players have major knee injuries and their best young player slumped for half a season, then sure…

Gabe always misses lots of games to injury so that is a given. Some Injuries are going to happen but our D core was shockingly healthy.

I meant lowest goals against in the NHL, two goalies having the best team save %. Didn’t we have a 30 game stretch where we didn’t give up more than 3 goals. Over 82 games there will be some negative variables but for that team to finish 4th OA then yes I would say they squeezed every ounce of juice out of the orange in the regular season at least. Probably the second best regular season in 2.0 history.

 

[LowLefty]

I blame the coach mostly because from most of what we've heard the coach has a great deal of autonomy to set his lineup.

While yes Chevy traded for those vets he also drafted and signed those kids. So he used assets to acquire both, more valuable assets for say Perfetti (top 10 pick for instance). So why should the coach rate one group acquired by the GM higher then an other? The GM provided the coach with both and the coach used the pieces as he saw fit.

I think it's lazy to say a GM needs to not bring in certain pieces for the coach to use other pieces appropriately. A coach who has autonomy should be able to make efficient lineup decisions.

And I think it's even lazier to assume the coach is not going to play deadline deals, who were obviously picked up to improve the team going into the PO's, because there are entry level deals in play.
If I was following this logic, I'd have to ask, why bother making any deals at the deadline? If your opinion is that they should not have made the deals, you should look no further than the guy who made the deals - there's nothing lazy about that logic.

 

[Weezeric]

Gabe always misses lots of games to injury so that is a given. Some Injuries are going to happen but our D core was shockingly healthy.

I meant lowest goals against in the NHL, two goalies having the best team save %. Didn’t we have a 30 game stretch where we didn’t give up more than 3 goals. Over 82 games there will be some negative variables but for that team to finish 4th OA then yes I would say they squeezed every ounce of juice out of the orange in the regular season at least. Probably the second best regular season in 2.0 history.

Don’t tell Ville Heinola how healthy the D core was, but I guess Pionk played all 82, so that’s great

Very good regular season of course, but it’s not like everything went perfectly. The Jets just played great, especially defensively.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

And who signed the vet players?
This is all about the org and how they intend to make the PO's at any cost -
Do you think Bones was going to sit the guys his GM went out and grabbed at the deadline?

You mean guys like Miller?

I think it was a combination of coaching and management.

 

[ps241]

Don’t tell Ville Heinola how healthy the D core was, but I guess Pionk played all 82, so that’s great

Very good regular season of course, but it’s not like everything went perfectly. The Jets just played great, especially defensively.

Bones would have found a way to bench Ville for half the season so we just front loaded the event . Everything didn’t go 100% perfectly of course, it never does, but I can’t believe Bones got that level of buy in for that length of time. Having our back up have a career year and a .927 save %, Helle with a run away mic drop Vezina season at the same time. The Jets with our flawed D core, and “usually” chance swapping, offense only first line, somehow managed to give up the least goals in the NHL over an 82 game schedule???

This older core isn’t getting this lucky/fortunate again in a regular season is my main point.

 

[LowLefty]

You mean guys like Miller?

I think it was a combination of coaching and management.

As per my earlier post, I was referring to top 6

 

[Flair Hay]

IMO, It's not coaching that has held back prospects - it's the org's want and need to be a playoff team with a chance to win - so they add what they think will be difference makers at the deadline.
It's easy to second guess the results after the fact - but most were in full support of the orgs recent deadline moves and most thought the adds made us better.
That being said, I agree they need to integrate youth and show patience - but this org will likely continue to add when they see an opportunity and the young guys may sit in those situations. But it isn't coaching that is making those decisions - and I'm speaking primarily about our top 6.

What really needs to happen is our young guys need to play well and make those moves unnecessary - and the good news is, there appears to be a spot or two available - up front and on the blueline. I look forward to seeing how that hashes out - and I hope they play well enough to avoid those late moves.

I think a lot of these are true. I don't think it's just 20/20 hindsight stuff though.

I think people were on board with the Jets making adds. If I had to go off memory I'd say our board would have given Monahan deal a C, and Toffoli deal a B+. They probably turned out opposite of that.

I think the most impact full guy we could have added was Tanev and thought it made no sense a team didn't want to trade a first for him.

I'm sure Chevy did what a good GM should do and told Bones to tell him what he needs and he can go get them.

I think the trouble is we replaced two guys providing us with probably $4M in value (Namestnikov and Perfetti) and traded capital to get guys in Monahan and Toffoli that were different styles but probably similar player value.

So the team didn't necessarily get better, it just became different. We had two more finishers but less play driving and defense.

If we had put those same resources (1st + 2nd + 3rd) into a Pionk upgrade maybe things could have been different.

 

[surixon]

As per my earlier post, I was referring to top 6

Maurice used Hayes as the 4C after Chevy spent a first to get him. I'm sure that is how Chevy wanted him to use him....

 

[LowLefty]

Maurice used Hayes as the 4C after Chevy spent a first to get him. I'm sure that is how Chevy wanted him to use him....

So you're basing this on Hayes, who didn't want to be here and put in next to no effort - probably the worst deadline deal Chevy ever made.
Thankfully, Mo moved him to the 4th and I would be very comfortable in knowing Chevy had no issue with that - it was a bad signing.
Regardless, I'm now a bit confused - you were the one that stated Bones and Maurice made bad coaching decisions that held back our youth - is this an example of this?

 

[Cnile]

I'd say one point in 26 games was a bit of a red flag but he did recover alright

He wasn’t the only one