All Purpose Morgan Rielly Discussion

[Fogelhund]

I really doubt this thread is going to age well.

We all would hope, and love to see Rielly's game turn around. If it does, that still does not negate the periods of time, when he wasn't very good.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

I actually agree that Rielly should be in the 20 minute area. I'd like to see them move around the D pairings to give Rielly the big D partner that he needs. In the least, it may average out the Defense TOI

For whatever reason he is getting exposed or exposing his weaknesses more than allowing his strength (skating the puck) to his advantage and as result the team’s advantage. He needs to add some pep to his game maybe.

 

[Joey Hoser]

Ya, it's always a risk to make a thread like this, especially when it targets a guy everyone loves.

I don't think people are looking at his play objectively, though.

"Looking at it objectively" means looking at his body of work and not just focusing on a "meh" 10-game start of a season, right?

 

[Critical13]

"Looking at it objectively" means looking at his body of work and not just focusing on a "meh" 10-game start of a season, right?

I wouldn't have made this thread if it was only 10 games. His play last year was problematic as well, although I wrote most of it off to injury/weird year. He still had some promising numbers last year though, so I expected a rebound.

Remember, a big part of this thread is that he is due for a new deal in 2 years, and must be protected a year from now. If we don't believe he will be a reliable key player for this team in 5 years, I think we need to start to confront the possibility that we may need to move him.

It's not just about the now.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

I guess it shouldn't come as a surprise anymore that a ridiculous thread like this made it this far.

It’s not ridiculous. Keefe needs to green light this guy to not do drop passes and skate the puck in to the offensive zone like he can. Morgs needs the puck on his stick and his wheels turning. Thats what he is best at. He needs to do it more. I’m goung to leave it at that and say it is the way a rushing defenseman simplifies his game.
Skate it up,shoot or pass and jump back on the defensive side of the puck as fast as he can and get shots through from the point. He’s actually being to defensive minded right now .

 

[Critical13]

It’s not ridiculous. Keefe needs to green light this guy to not do drop passes and skate the puck in to the offensive zone like he can. Morgs needs the puck on his stick and his wheels turning. Thats what he is best at. He needs to do it more. I’m goung to leave it at that and say it is the way a rushing defenseman simplifies his game.
Skate it up,shoot or pass and jump back on the defensive side of the puck as fast as he can and get shots through from the point. He’s actually being to defensive minded right now .

Yes, peak Mo was someone who put up great numbers (traditional and non) because he created so much. I like that he trying to defend better, but he's not making good offensive decisions anymore.

 

[Fogelhund]

"Looking at it objectively" means looking at his body of work and not just focusing on a "meh" 10-game start of a season, right?

If you'd read through the thread, you would see that this is a discussion of his body of work. He's never been good defensively.

 

[Notsince67]

"Looking at it objectively" means looking at his body of work and not just focusing on a "meh" 10-game start of a season, right?

8th year on the team isnt enough time to know what they have in him I guess.

 

[meefer]

On a team introducing 10 new players into the line-up, a team yet to ‘jell’, Mo is displaying who he is quite faithfully. His best defence was offered with Hainsey, a fairly 1 dimensional player that complimented the skills Reilly has. Brodie is a better player tha Ron, offers more options, and for all the love I have for Mo as a player, thinking the game is not his forte. Give them another 10-15 games playing together and I’m confident Mo and Bro will develop some confidence in each other, how to best work together, and things will improve. Reilly has had years of training ‘covering space’ his partner couldn’t reach. It’ll get better.

 

[meefer]

If you'd read through the thread, you would see that this is a discussion of his body of work. He's never been good defensively.

he’s always assumed the dominant responsibilities with partners less capable. Give Brodie and Mo time. He’s not used to playing with a competent partner.

 

[bansheebeat]

As someone who agrees that Mo's best games were with Hainsey as his partner, I don't remember how long they took to gel. Could it be that they took 20 or games to figure it out as well?

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Yes, peak Mo was someone who put up great numbers (traditional and non) because he created so much. I like that he trying to defend better, but he's not making good offensive decisions anymore.

That’s another part of the crux Keefer mentioned too possibly. He said they need to play defense without dropping offensively. That nice medium comes from everyone reading plays and reacting.
Marner is the outgoing one on the team. He can get away with saying lets go boys we are sitting back to much agian. Maybe he’s the voice that needs to come out.A team needs that. Quiet bench sometimes. Chatter on the bench is good.

 

[Critical13]

It's incredible how many are willing to give Rielly unlimited rope, but will toss Nylander, Marner, Tavares, etc all under the bus if they play a bad 20 minutes being top 5 on the team in endless categories.

Many are ready to jettison Holl after a single bad shift, but Rielly plays 6 of his 8 years as a very subpar defender and he "just needs more time".

I thought we were past the country club days where fan favourites were held to lower standards.

 

[IPS]

It's incredible how many are willing to give Rielly unlimited rope

No kidding.

I've always been a Rielly fan, and his 18/19 season he was a beast, but this current iteration of Rielly is just plain awful to watch.

I am more than willing to give him more time to get his defensive game up to par, but not much more. We have other guys who are waiting for a shot at a bigger role. I just don't think Keefe's system is a fit for him.

 

[ShaneFalco]

No kidding.

I've always been a Rielly fan, and his 18/19 season he was a beast, but this current iteration of Rielly is just plain awful to watch.

I am more than willing to give him more time to get his defensive game up to par, but not much more. We have other guys who are waiting for a shot at a bigger role. I just don't think Keefe's system is a fit for him.

Yeah don't fall in love with the player, think of the bigger picture, the team. And we can't keep everyone

 

[BertCorbeau]

It's incredible how many are willing to give Rielly unlimited rope, but will toss Nylander, Marner, Tavares, etc all under the bus if they play a bad 20 minutes being top 5 on the team in endless categories.

Many are ready to jettison Holl after a single bad shift, but Rielly plays 6 of his 8 years as a very subpar defender and he "just needs more time".

I thought we were past the country club days where fan favourites were held to lower standards.

To be fair, judging defensemen (good or bad) has never really been a forte of the fanbase.

 

[Notsince67]

To be fair, judging defensemen (good or bad) has never really been a forte of the fanbase.

1000%

 

[Critical13]

1000%

I respect your opinion, but you have called me out multiple times about my criticism of Rielly. What am I missing?

The eye test doesn't bode well, and the advanced statistics aren't not good. Including last year, he's in the bottom 1% defensively in the NHL for guys getting top pair minutes.

We all want the team to show more compete, more attention to detail, more physicality. I would say these are Mo's 3 biggest flaws.

So what am I missing? Why am I being called a clown and people calling me out as a non-fan or a bad fan if I am asking for more accountability from a player who hasn't improved in any of the areas where others on the team have?

Even on the PP, most of his points are secondary assists and I am not sold that Lehtonen/Brodie/Sandin couldn't produce evenly on that PP if given 10 games to settle in. With his contract ending and expansion looming, I think we need to take a hard look at situations like this.

 

[mclaren55]

I respect your opinion, but you have called me out multiple times about my criticism of Rielly. What am I missing?

The eye test doesn't bode well, and the advanced statistics aren't not good. Including last year, he's in the bottom 1% defensively in the NHL for guys getting top pair minutes.

We all want the team to show more compete, more attention to detail, more physicality. I would say these are Mo's 3 biggest flaws.

So what am I missing? Why am I being called a clown and people calling me out as a non-fan or a bad fan if I am asking for more accountability from a player who hasn't improved in any of the areas where others on the team have?

Even on the PP, most of his points are secondary assists and I am not sold that Lehtonen/Brodie/Sandin couldn't produce on evenly on that PP if given 10 games to settle in. With his contract ending and expansion looming, I think we need to take a hard look at situations like this.

Because we are 10 games into a season in which all the of the divisions and competition is skewed? Maybe wait until the 20 game mark to move on from the best defenseman the leafs have drafted and developed in 2 decades?

 

[Critical13]

Because we are 10 games into a season in which all the of the divisions and competition is skewed? Maybe wait until the 20 game mark to move on from the best defenseman the leafs have drafted and developed in 2 decades?

Why do people keep saying this? Read the damn thread, most of the analysis posted includes 2-3 years of play. Rielly's struggles defensively aren't a "10 game problem". 4 years ago he could outscore his defensive woes, but he can't anymore.

He certainly can't be asked to be a rock solid defender, in which case he's definitely not a #1 and that is something that should be taken into account with his contract looming. How much are we willing to pay for that?

 

[Fogelhund]

I respect your opinion, but you have called me out multiple times about my criticism of Rielly. What am I missing?

The eye test doesn't bode well, and the advanced statistics aren't not good. Including last year, he's in the bottom 1% defensively in the NHL for guys getting top pair minutes.

We all want the team to show more compete, more attention to detail, more physicality. I would say these are Mo's 3 biggest flaws.

So what am I missing? Why am I being called a clown and people calling me out as a non-fan or a bad fan if I am asking for more accountability from a player who hasn't improved in any of the areas where others on the team have?

Even on the PP, most of his points are secondary assists and I am not sold that Lehtonen/Brodie/Sandin couldn't produce on evenly on that PP if given 10 games to settle in. With his contract ending and expansion looming, I think we need to take a hard look at situations like this.

I believe this to be a pretty accurate post, and look forward to the responses.

We don't need to make a move now, that much is for sure... but, we've got decisions to make. A flat cap for 3-4 more years, Rielly needs a new contract and likely a raise, and we risk losing players to the expansion draft. Our depth is in question already, so to sign Rielly for $7 mil, $ 8 mil is a huge commitment, with that flat cap. It's got to be the right decision, and we need to look objectively at such a decision. Is he the guy you commit that much to, in this environment? Is he the guy we lose a Dermott or a Holl over, in expansion? If he continues to play in the manner he has so far this year, I'd say it's time to move on (and he's played poorly defensively for years). If somehow Brodie and Rielly find great chemistry, then we have to resign him. Constructive discussion is important.

 

[Fogelhund]

Speaking of Tanev.... Interesting article. Yost: Calgary Flames might have found another dominant defensive pairing - TSN.ca

 

[Wafflewhipper]

I respect your opinion, but you have called me out multiple times about my criticism of Rielly. What am I missing?

The eye test doesn't bode well, and the advanced statistics aren't not good. Including last year, he's in the bottom 1% defensively in the NHL for guys getting top pair minutes.

We all want the team to show more compete, more attention to detail, more physicality. I would say these are Mo's 3 biggest flaws.

So what am I missing? Why am I being called a clown and people calling me out as a non-fan or a bad fan if I am asking for more accountability from a player who hasn't improved in any of the areas where others on the team have?

Even on the PP, most of his points are secondary assists and I am not sold that Lehtonen/Brodie/Sandin couldn't produce evenly on that PP if given 10 games to settle in. With his contract ending and expansion looming, I think we need to take a hard look at situations like this.

He’s not playing good enough. That is there to see. I don’t even know why you would get a argumentative response from anyone on it.
He’s out to F***** lunch in his own zone from the beginning here. Brodie isn’t figuring it out because he doesn’t have a clue what he’s going to do next. He’s running around like a lunatic.
On top of that he’s not carrying the puck nearly enough either. Last year he put it out there he was playing with nagging injuries all season. What’s the deal this year, same thing..... thats not good if it is because any player not coming in healthy after that lay off is a serious red flag no.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

I already said in this thread we should play Lehtonen more,Reilly less. Good guy sure. Fine but good guy doesn’t help the defense. His entire game is shambles

 

[Notsince67]

I respect your opinion, but you have called me out multiple times about my criticism of Rielly. What am I missing?

The eye test doesn't bode well, and the advanced statistics aren't not good. Including last year, he's in the bottom 1% defensively in the NHL for guys getting top pair minutes.

We all want the team to show more compete, more attention to detail, more physicality. I would say these are Mo's 3 biggest flaws.

So what am I missing? Why am I being called a clown and people calling me out as a non-fan or a bad fan if I am asking for more accountability from a player who hasn't improved in any of the areas where others on the team have?

I havent said that about you at all. You are entitled to your opinion as I am. I just believe that your theory of regression can be easily be disproven with some good games. As far as we know, he doesnt have any big health problems and he is 26 year old. That is the time when defensemen really start to peak. His speed is still there and he is just having a bad start. Lets see him cost us a few games before we throw him under the bus. He was one of the better dmen in the second game against the oilers and was fine in the jets game. The issue this year for the team has not been defense. It has been consistent offensive output at 5x5. This is where the team as a whole needs to understand the balance of offensive and defensive effort. As one of the best scoring teams in the nhl last year, I have few worries that it can be turned around. When it does, we will see who costs us the games. Until this team stabilizes will all the new faces, I am not going to advocate big core changes.
Lets be clear now...there are some troubling stats defensively from some forwards and I believe that is why they are not generating offense. We're getting stuck in the dzone.