All Purpose Mitch Marner Talk II

[Dekes For Days]

I think he still has all primary assists to this point too

Yep, all 12 of Marner's points so far are primary points. 2nd is McDavid with 10. Then Draisaitl, Mackinnon, and Marchand with 8.

 

[Bigmarycombo]

Will you guys stop posting facts
You are completely blindsiding the bias agenda people

Fact marner has a great game Posters remarks from the
Known retractors =crickets

Fact marner has a good game but does something that is perceived to be a grevious error = 3 pages of
Overpaid bum
Not good enough
Selfish
Trade him get something good

I can name the dozen or so nylander fanboys who do this but I won’t. They always start the post by saying I like marner but

You have to look no farther than the posts title on this board

The John Tavares appreciation posts
The sweet sexy will y posts

The Mitch marner thread

Lol

Mitch is the real deal

 

[Wafflewhipper]

The charismatic Marner having fun is back. Last year i look at him and think, he’s not himself,he needs to get this stinkin year over and get back to having fun and the team needs to add some grit.
He’s having fun alongside all the veteran grit we added. That said, it was nice to get a look at the taxi squad depth last night in Anderson and Boyd. They looked good. A little tentative on Anderson part i thought. That line played really good.

There is a good team vibe going on.

 

[ZEBROA]

I hope he keep this up all season. I dont expect it, but i hope.

 

[Notsince67]

Oh you know there are a few posters angry he is doing so well just waiting for him to go into a slump

They arent real leaf fans.

 

[Notsince67]

Yep, all 12 of Marner's points so far are primary points. 2nd is McDavid with 10. Then Draisaitl, Mackinnon, and Marchand with 8.

I thought 1 assist was a secondary

 

[Bigmarycombo]

I hope he keep this up all season. I dont expect it, but i hope.

This is exactly my point

The vibe your giving off is he is doing good great but he won’t keep it up.

Giving a backhanded compliment then adding a but is sad.

 

[Bigmarycombo]

I thought 1 assist was a secondary

Why all of a sudden is primary assist more important than any other assist. I can’t understand this measurement of skill.

Marner starts in his own zone skates through all the team goes behind the net passes it back to Reilly and he shoots goalie makes the save but Matthews buries it. Marner gets a secondary assist
But he made the whole play.

Matthews does the same thing carries the puck through the whole team passes it back to marner who puts a shot on net Hyman buries the rebound. Marner gets the primary assist even though matthews Did all the work the work.

Primary and secondary assists are like plus minus. They are a convenient stat to back up your agenda but is the farthest from the truth.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Will you guys stop posting facts
You are completely blindsiding the bias agenda people

Fact marner has a great game Posters remarks from the
Known retractors =crickets

Fact marner has a good game but does something that is perceived to be a grevious error = 3 pages of
Overpaid bum
Not good enough
Selfish
Trade him get something good

I can name the dozen or so nylander fanboys who do this but I won’t. They always start the post by saying I like marner but

You have to look no farther than the posts title on this board

The John Tavares appreciation posts
The sweet sexy will y posts

The Mitch marner thread

Lol

Mitch is the real deal

Holy exaggerations batman. Cool thread title analysis though.

I hope Marner isn't as sensitive as you are (I'm 99.99% certain he's not).

So far this season Marner been great, if he plays this way in the playoffs and we win a minimum of two rounds, complaining about his contract will be a thing of the past.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Why all of a sudden is primary assist more important than any other assist.

There's nothing "all of a sudden" about it. On average, goals and primary assists represent a much higher individual contribution to offensive production than secondary assists. Marner having 12 primary points in 8 games is very impressive.

 

[Notsince67]

Why all of a sudden is primary assist more important than any other assist. I can’t understand this measurement of skill.

Marner starts in his own zone skates through all the team goes behind the net passes it back to Reilly and he shoots goalie makes the save but Matthews buries it. Marner gets a secondary assist
But he made the whole play.

Matthews does the same thing carries the puck through the whole team passes it back to marner who puts a shot on net Hyman buries the rebound. Marner gets the primary assist even though matthews Did all the work the work.

Primary and secondary assists are like plus minus. They are a convenient stat to back up your agenda but is the farthest from the truth.

Not true.
Secondary assists have value but they are often a random attribution that aren’t reflective of a player’s true offensive impact. Nothing is conclusive but I am human and love to verify my own biases when they suit my needs

 

[cookie]

I will admit Mitch has looked MUCH better and seems to be playing stronger overall.

I still think he is overpaid by 1-1.5 million, but I am happy with him.

I was down on him heavily at first this year but will take my plate of crow and admit I was wrong.

I call that the Babcock tax to rationalize that contract amount. You would want your money's worth if you knew that you were going to be playing for an abusive coach that is signed on for the 5 years (and that has the pedigree and success to indicate that he won't be gone any time soon).

 

[Notsince67]

I call that the Babcock tax to rationalize that contract amount. You would want your money's worth if you knew that you were going to be playing for an abusive coach that is signed on for the 5 years (and that has the pedigree and success to indicate that he won't be gone any time soon).

One can justify a fair contract as being close to what it is.
As an example, Nylander has logged less than 71% of Marners ice time so far this season.
At that rate, were the two equal in skill and the assignments equally onerous, Nylander would make 7.6MM.
Decide for yourself the skill differences and the deployment differences.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Why all of a sudden is primary assist more important than any other assist. I can’t understand this measurement of skill.

Marner starts in his own zone skates through all the team goes behind the net passes it back to Reilly and he shoots goalie makes the save but Matthews buries it. Marner gets a secondary assist
But he made the whole play.

Matthews does the same thing carries the puck through the whole team passes it back to marner who puts a shot on net Hyman buries the rebound. Marner gets the primary assist even though matthews Did all the work the work.

Primary and secondary assists are like plus minus. They are a convenient stat to back up your agenda but is the farthest from the truth.

You examples are great but your sample size makes them irrelevant. Over the long run, primary assists are more meaningful then secondary and goals are more meaningful than assists. But if you don't agree you should be happy because they're all good for one point in the scoring race.

Me, I couldn't care less. I just want the team to win in the playoffs. Winning an Art Ross is cool, winning a Hart even cooler but both are nothing more than cherries on top that are useless if there's no cake for them to sit on top of. And they're both 1000 times less important to me than team success.

 

[Bigmarycombo]

Holy exaggerations batman. Cool thread title analysis though.

I hope Marner isn't as sensitive as you are (I'm 99.99% certain he's not).

So far this season Marner been great, if he plays this way in the playoffs and we win a minimum of two rounds, complaining about his contract will be a thing of the past.

Marner has become the whipping boy for some on here. It won’t matter to some what he does. These hiding posters will all come out as soon as he is perceived to have a bad game. See it’s posters like you that hedge their bets.

Now because he’s having a great year it now has to continue into the playoffs or he isn’t worth his contract.

The nhl is full of elite stars that get shut down in the playoffs because the refs put their whistle away and let them play. Some
Players excel in this bush league officiating style but some don’t.

Why can’t you just admit Mitch is an elite player and leave it at that instead of putting conditions on his play.

 

[Bigmarycombo]

You examples are great but your sample size makes them irrelevant. Over the long run, primary assists are more meaningful then secondary and goals are more meaningful than assists. But if you don't agree you should be happy because they're all good for one point in the scoring race.

Me, I couldn't care less. I just want the team to win in the playoffs. Winning an Art Ross is cool, winning a Hart even cooler but both are nothing more than cherries on top that are useless if there's no cake for them to sit on top of. And they're both 1000 times less important to me than team success.

I do too want to win the playoffs but I hope that nylander Tavares Matthews are held up to the same standard.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Marner has become the whipping boy for some on here. It won’t matter to some what he does. These hiding posters will all come out as soon as he is perceived to have a bad game. See it’s posters like you that hedge their bets.

Now because he’s having a great year it now has to continue into the playoffs or he isn’t worth his contract.

The nhl is full of elite stars that get shut down in the playoffs because the refs put their whistle away and let them play. Some
Players excel in this bush league officiating style but some don’t.

Why can’t you just admit Mitch is an elite player and leave it at that instead of putting conditions on his play.

Mitch isn't a whipping boy, you're being ridiculous. He gets some criticism but there isn't a single player on the team who doesn't get criticized from time time. Dion Phaneuf, now there was a whipping boy. Larry Murphy was another one. Mitch a whipping boy, don't make me laugh. You seem to be insanely overprotective of him, are you his mother or something? Are you this protective of all our players? Are you all over the Rielly discussions and if not then why not? Rielly been getting a ton of criticism this season, much more so then Marner.

Elite is a subjective term. I've already said that I think the stats Zeke posted from the Athletic that show Mitch as the 11th best forward in the NHL look reasonable to me. If that's elite then fine, I really don't care but if that's accurate then yes he is overpaid no matter how well he's played last 8 regular season games. No team has gone longer then us without winning a playoff series, change that and start winning and believe me, people won't care about contracts but as long as we keep losing, people will analyze the payroll that's just the way it is and when you're at the top of the pay heap you will be under the microscope.

I've said since before the 2019-2020 season started that playoff success is what this fan base wants and needs and is what matters most. Losing to CLB in the playins and thus not even the making playoffs hasn't changed that one bit. Playoff hockey is different of course. Are you bringing that up and making excuses in advance because you don't think Mitch can excel in the playoffs? If that's true then yes, he will never be worth his contract.

I think you're underestimating him though if that's the case as I absolutely believe he can excel in the playoffs, I hope he does so this year and as I said earlier, if we have playoff success then people won't care about his contract.

I do too want to win the playoffs but I hope that nylander Tavares Matthews are held up to the same standard.

Not just them but every player on this team. Playoff success is what it's all about and I will judge this team and all of it's players mostly on how they perform in the playoffs, period. I said so before the 2019-2020 season started and I see no reason to think differently today.

 

[Jojalu]

I have never understood the Mitch vs. Nylander debate.

I love Nylander, but Mitch is just more productive. I don't understand how any Leaf fan wouldn't want both of them producing at a high rate. The better they are both playing probably means the more success the team will have.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I have never understood the Mitch vs. Nylander debate.

I love Nylander, but Mitch is just more productive. I don't understand how any Leaf fan wouldn't want both of them producing at a high rate. The better they are both playing probably means the more success the team will have.

All Leaf vs Leaf debates are stupid. Kadri vs Bozak, Reimer vs Bernier, whatever. People are ... strange.

 

[Maple Leaf]

Great time to trade Marner

 

[Stephen]

I have never understood the Mitch vs. Nylander debate.

I love Nylander, but Mitch is just more productive. I don't understand how any Leaf fan wouldn't want both of them producing at a high rate. The better they are both playing probably means the more success the team will have.

I think the genesis of this Marner vs Nylander debate has to do with the early Toronto rebuild looking a bit like Chicago's. They had Toews and Kane and we were looking for some equivalency of Matthews and Marner/Nylander, so obviously we couldn't have 2 homegrown star wingers... and the post-ELC contract situation just made it worse because ultimately we may still need to balance out the team and add an elite defenseman, probably at the cost of one of them.

If Marner continues to play like this and can take big steps in the playoffs of course will be happy to have him. If he's like last year's Marner with the inconsistent effort and sloppiness in the game, then we have more of an issue, with some disagreement among fans as to how big of a problem. Nylander has been quiet since Game 1, but he's obviously much cheaper so the bar is lower. However, we've seen his play last year, and $7 million for 30+ goals is fine. But again, their long prospect of staying with the Leafs will obviously be tied to how much success this team can have in the post-season.

 

[Leafs at Knight]

Great time to trade Marner

Great time for you to stop posting.

 

[LeafsNation75]

I thought 1 assist was a secondary

Here is Marner's scoring log for all of his goals and assists this season, which show all of his 7 assists so far have been primary assists.

Mitch Marner 2020-21 Scoring Log | Hockey-Reference.com

 

[TheGreatOne11]

Manner is my boy, always has been, always will be. I thought he lost a step last year, the fire was gone, the diving in front of pucks, the fantastic plays only he can see on the ice, he was forcing it a bit last year.

Then I found out about the injury and I think the weight of his contract mentally he has let go of it in the off-season and he's just playing with fun and passion again.

I don't harp on bad streaks, I don't glorify good streaks, it's season by season for me and he looks good and looks happy with a jump in his step again.

I hope he keeps it up. Because when Marner is on, he's by far my favourite player in the league. My second is Crosby. Not that anyone asked I just love that dude.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Mitch isn't a whipping boy, you're being ridiculous. He gets some criticism but there isn't a single player on the team who doesn't get criticized from time time. Dion Phaneuf, now there was a whipping boy. Larry Murphy was another one. Mitch a whipping boy, don't make me laugh. You seem to be insanely overprotective of him, are you his mother or something? Are you this protective of all our players? Are you all over the Rielly discussions and if not then why not? Rielly been getting a ton of criticism this season, much more so then Marner.

Elite is a subjective term. I've already said that I think the stats Zeke posted from the Athletic that show Mitch as the 11th best forward in the NHL look reasonable to me. If that's elite then fine, I really don't care but if that's accurate then yes he is overpaid no matter how well he's played last 8 regular season games. No team has gone longer then us without winning a playoff series, change that and start winning and believe me, people won't care about contracts but as long as we keep losing, people will analyze the payroll that's just the way it is and when you're at the top of the pay heap you will be under the microscope.

I've said since before the 2019-2020 season started that playoff success is what this fan base wants and needs and is what matters most. Losing to CLB in the playins and thus not even the making playoffs hasn't changed that one bit. Playoff hockey is different of course. Are you bringing that up and making excuses in advance because you don't think Mitch can excel in the playoffs? If that's true then yes, he will never be worth his contract.

I think you're underestimating him though if that's the case as I absolutely believe he can excel in the playoffs, I hope he does so this year and as I said earlier, if we have playoff success then people won't care about his contract.

This was before Marner signed his current 6 year/$10.893 million contract because at the time he was in the 2nd year of his ELC. However I do remember him being the Maple Leafs best player in their 2018 playoff series against Boston, when he had 9 points in the seven games.

Also the Florida Panthers have not won a playoff series since 1996 when they defeated Pittsburgh in the Eastern Conference Final. Toronto has not won a playoff series since the 2004 Eastern Conference Quarter-Finals against Ottawa, so there is one team who has gone longer without winning a playoff series.