All Purpose Mitch Marner Talk II

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man, imagine if someone sat outside your office and screamed that you weren't worth your salary. What a preposterous argument to be having. It's not like he's David Clarkson or Dion Phaneuf.
If he didn't want such pressure, then he shouldn't have taken the team hostage and refused to play until he received an outrageous overpayment.

Outrageous contracts come with outrageous expectations. If he wanted reasonable expectations, he should have signed a reasonable contract.

I do want to clarify that he is almost earning his contract so far this season.
 
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man, imagine if someone sat outside your office and screamed that you weren't worth your salary. What a preposterous argument to be having. It's not like he's David Clarkson or Dion Phaneuf.
I see it all the time. People ask for the moon in salary negotiations, inflate their worth as a result and underproduce. They don't stick around long after.
 
20 goal/90 point players shouldn't get 11x6 that is front loaded and in signing bonuses at cba limits.

Everybody knew he was a proven 20 goal/90 point player when he signed that contract, but he is still universally considered overpaid by quite literally everyone that follows hockey, other than 2 or 3 posters on hfboards.

So 20 goals/90 points isn't earning his contract. But pacing for 54/109 points is closer to earning his contract. If he keeps putting up such numbers, he'll stop getting so much heat in T.O.

Oh he definitely got overpaid.

But he was overpaid based on the 20ish goal / 70 assist type upside that we can reasonably expect from Marner.
 
He's hardly been noticeable this season and he still leads the league in points :laugh:

He's going to win an Art Ross at some point in his career
Skill players are always noticeable. Thats why when they give away a puck you hear about it. The eyes are always on them. Nylander for instance really had a light go off in his head and started skating the puck again last night second half of the game. We need more of that from him. Marner controls the game wether people see it or not. I see it. Tavares has been our best player game in game out to this point. He looks good.
 
Oh he definitely got overpaid.

But he was overpaid based on the 20ish goal / 70 assist type upside that we can reasonably expect from Marner.
What I'm saying is that 20 goals/90 points is still "overpaid". You agree. What he's done so far this year is actually "properly paid" and close to earning his contract.
 
The psychological term is called ingroup-outgroup bias. It used to be that it was limited to one team fans vs another team fans. The deprecation was driven by arbitrary distinctions between the teams. In this age of celebrity, it has morphed into player by player homerism.
Liking x player means disparaging y player.
Criticizing a player is normal to sport but basking in the reflected glory of a singular player relative to another on the same team (in a team sport) is not what being a sports fan is. If degrees were handed out for leaf fandom, I would fail them.
LERPS lol
 
20 goal/90 point players shouldn't get 11x6 that is front loaded and in signing bonuses at cba limits.

Everybody knew he was a proven 20 goal/90 point player when he signed that contract, but he is still universally considered overpaid by quite literally everyone that follows hockey, other than 2 or 3 posters on hfboards.

So 20 goals/90 points isn't earning his contract. But pacing for 54/109 points is closer to earning his contract. If he keeps putting up such numbers, he'll stop getting so much heat in T.O.
Don’t ever let your expectations be known to your kids bro. I’m not even kidding. Assuming you are fertile ha :)
 
Complaints about 11 million aside, how is front-loading a bad thing?
Signing bonuses and front-loading are perks that players desperately want and are offered by (rich) gm's at the payoff of lowering the aav.

Marner received an outrageously player friendly contract. Every perk went to the player (unless you argue, lol, that Marner was signed for the purpose of trading in 2 years)... and not only did we not get any aav relief... he still has an overpaid aav. It's insane.
 
Sure but a 50 goal Marner ain't gonna happen.

I doubt we'll even see 40.
Yep, undoubtedly true. And then posters like me will go back to bashing his contract. As of right now though, he's been pretty close to earning his contract so far very early in this season. Just being consistent in saying, "Kudos Marner". As long as our players are earning their contracts, I'll cheer them on. Are my expectations outrageous? Yes. But outrageous contracts come with outrageous expectations.
 
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Signing bonuses and front-loading are perks that players desperately want and are offered by (rich) gm's at the payoff of lowering the aav.
No they aren't. They're most often used to offset tax disadvantages, and they are mutually beneficial to teams like Toronto as well.
Marner received an outrageously player friendly contract.
Marner's contract was reasonable and within his comparables, as you have been shown countless times.
 
LINO.
Leafs in name only.
Check out the discrepancy in opponents penalties per game against us in minutes per here. 2020-21 NHL Summary | Hockey-Reference.com

Its listed (o/pim)far right side. Opponents penalty minutes.

****Leafs -3 minutes****

Montreal +.8 minutes

Ottawa +1 minute

Winnipeg + 4 minutes really they are saints aren’t they

Calgary + 2.6 minutes

Edmonton + 1.6 minutes per

****Vancouver - 2.6 minutes per****

So we are running the largest discrepancy of all Canadian teams.
 
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Signing bonuses and front-loading are perks that players desperately want and are offered by (rich) gm's at the payoff of lowering the aav.

Marner received an outrageously player friendly contract. Every perk went to the player (unless you argue, lol, that Marner was signed for the purpose of trading in 2 years)... and not only did we not get any aav relief... he still has an overpaid aav. It's insane.
You didn't put the 11m aside, or really answer how it's a bad thing. All you gave me was histrionics.
 
No they aren't. They're most often used to offset tax disadvantages, and they are mutually beneficial to teams like Toronto as well.

They're only mutually beneficial if the end goal is to trade Marner after two years. There was nothing mutually beneficial when giving Tavares all that front-loading/siging bonuses while also giving him a nmc. And Marner was clearly not signed to be traded. There was nothing mutually beneficial in Toronto giving those players signing bonuses. They are a PLAYER ONLY perk.

Marner's contract was reasonable and within his comparables, as you have been shown countless times.

You are quite literally the only person I've ever... ever seen that makes that argument.
 
You didn't put the 11m aside, or really answer how it's a bad thing. All you gave me was histrionics.
A "bad" thing? I don't think signing bonuses/front loading are bad things. They are perks used to get the aav down. They are part of the equation when comparing player contracts and comparables.

For example, Marner made almost 50% of his 6 year contract 8 months after signing his contract. It will take Rantanen more than 2 years before he gets half of his contract. That's part of the equation, especially when (at the time) a lockout/strike was possible in the near future. When it comes to investments and stuff, having all that money up front is a HUGE deal. And I believe in many places signing bonus money is taxed less.

So the criticism here is that Marner was given all those signing bonuses/front loading (no problem so far), but WITHOUT the aav relief that is supposed to be the counter weight. THAT'S the problem.
 
Marner leading the league in scoring today..... That pumps him up guaranteed. He’s ultra competitive and you know he wants a scoring title. Who knows, these things go right to the legs
 
I know Marners cap hit will always be a point of contention for some throughout his contract and that’s fine. However at this point I am personally much more interested in seeing Marner be the best player he can be. His shot does look better this year so good on him for working on that. Where I may be in the minority is I dont think Marner has looked all that good this season so far. I’ve seen quite a few defensive lapses and his decision making at times has still been very off. The fact that he’s leading the league in points 6 games into the season where leafs have played more games then most teams means little to me. While I certainly believe he can be a perineal Art Ross threat, his overall game needs to be better. He’s still young and I think/hope he’ll get there
 
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Check out the discrepancy in opponents penalties per game against us in minutes per here. 2020-21 NHL Summary | Hockey-Reference.com

Its listed (o/pim)far right side. Opponents penalty minutes.

****Leafs -3 minutes****

Montreal +.8 minutes

Ottawa +1 minute

Winnipeg + 4 minutes really they are saints aren’t they

Calgary + 2.6 minutes

Edmonton + 1.6 minutes per

****Vancouver - 2.6 minutes per****

So we are running the largest discrepancy of all Canadian teams.
Not surprised. Penalties cost the leafs at least 1 game. At this rate it will be 9 at the end of the season
 
The horror of Marner finishing 11th in scoring with 94 points during the 2018-19 Season. I guess Dubas needs to trade him right away because of that.
Got a taste of how well the leafs win when Marner was injured. Seems ok to some people as long as they get rid of "Money Mitch"
 
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