Player Discussion All Purpose Goaltending Thread

[TehDoak]

He gets credit for not waiving Tage Thompson.

He actively tried to trade Tage Thompson and couldn't get any takers.

He is lucky that he was still here when he broke out.

He gets credit for not selling Rasmus Dahlin for cash.

I'm not sure that was ever on the table. Once Krueger was gone it was clear Dahlin was going to be fine. Nobody was trading Dahlin.

 

[Irie]

What about these guys? Most of them have been available in the last two years.

Demko - 93.6%
Hart - 92.4%
Swayman - 95.7%
Vejmelka - 92.6%
Reimer - 93.9%
Thompson - 93.3%
Hill - 91,5%
Jarry - 91%+ always
Georgiev - 91.8%
Saros - 91%

Gibson and Markstrom experienced starters.

A guy like Gustavsson had a very decent season last season and could be had cheaply.

There are always options and there is no way to justify Adams here. My complaints aren't even about Comrie. He was a wild card for a backup role and that's fine, but UPL is bad and Levi just came out of college at the end of last season.

UPL - trade
Comrie - backup
Levi - at least one season in Rochester

That's what Adams should have done, but he didn't do anything.

If you think that half the guys on your list are better than .900% behind this team the way they are playing D, I do not know what to tell you. I suggest you watch the goal highlights from the end of the season in Arizona where Vejmelka was giving up really ugly softies when his team stopped collapsing into a protective shell around him every game.

Demko was a goalie with two surgically rebuilt hips who was having major hip trouble and made one eyed Carter Hutton look good the way he was playing when he was on the block. The moment he was healthy and playing ok, Vancouver publicly announced he was not on the block.

No one is giving up what Philly wants for Hart until the Hockey Canada scandal is resolved, and nor should they.

When was Jarry available? Dubas gave him a 5x5.35M deal on July 1. You wanted Adams to go 5x6+?!? (likely what it would have taken). Does that really make sense to you with Levi in the system?

Saros is not signed long term and I'm asking you to go peruse the Saros to Buffalo thread to see the cost there.

The ask was usually something like Benson+Kulich+Peterka, or Savoie+Benson+Mitts. And for the record, I do not believe Saros was actually ever really available. In a press conference after Trotz was announced as the upcoming GM, Trotz said, and I quote, "Saros wants to be here. If he wants to be here, I want him to be here"

You can keep throwing out names and saying, "The GM blew it!!", but lets try to be a little realistic here. You constantly state points with 20-20 hindsight behind them without ever taking into account the facts of the situation at the time. It's like looking back at drafts from decades ago and saying, "WTF... why didn't our GM draft Alfredsson, Pavelski and Zetterberg?!?"

 

[Zman5778]

You can keep throwing out names and saying, "The GM blew it!!", but lets try to be a little realistic here. You constantly state points with 20-20 hindsight behind them without ever taking into account the facts of the situation at the time. It's like looking back at drafts from decades ago and saying, "WTF... why didn't our GM draft Alfredsson, Pavelski and Zetterberg?!?"

IMO, the only goalie that's moved recently that has/had a chance of putting up decent numbers behind our defense is/was Kuemper.

The goalies that are largely system-independent as far as putting up consistent numbers just don't move anymore (not that they ever consistently did).

 

[HogtownSabresfan]

And now we're crowning JJ as a good goalie cause he's on a nice run, hilarious.

But I learned again this summer that this place is full of goalie whisperers who know exactly how 90% of the leagues non-elite goalies will do year to year, changing teams, systems, opportunities.

I'm not.

 

[Old Navy Goat]

Kuemper would be just as atrocious as he looks done in DC

 

[Fjordy]

If you think that half the guys on your list are better than .900% behind this team the way they are playing D, I do not know what to tell you. I suggest you watch the goal highlights from the end of the season in Arizona where Vejmelka was giving up really ugly softies when his team stopped collapsing into a protective shell around him every game.

Demko was a goalie with two surgically rebuilt hips who was having major hip trouble and made one eyed Carter Hutton look good the way he was playing when he was on the block. The moment he was healthy and playing ok, Vancouver publicly announced he was not on the block.

No one is giving up what Philly wants for Hart until the Hockey Canada scandal is resolved, and nor should they.

When was Jarry available? Dubas gave him a 5x5.35M deal on July 1. You wanted Adams to go 5x6+?!? (likely what it would have taken). Does that really make sense to you with Levi in the system?

Saros is not signed long term and I'm asking you to go peruse the Saros to Buffalo thread to see the cost there.

The ask was usually something like Benson+Kulich+Peterka, or Savoie+Benson+Mitts. And for the record, I do not believe Saros was actually ever really available. In a press conference after Trotz was announced as the upcoming GM, Trotz said, and I quote, "Saros wants to be here. If he wants to be here, I want him to be here"

You can keep throwing out names and saying, "The GM blew it!!", but lets try to be a little realistic here. You constantly state points with 20-20 hindsight behind them without ever taking into account the facts of the situation at the time. It's like looking back at drafts from decades ago and saying, "WTF... why didn't our GM draft Alfredsson, Pavelski and Zetterberg?!?"

Well, of course, another excuse for the GM. This is nonsense dude, you don’t know what they would look like here. Anderson, 40, was average last season with garbage defense, Comrie has looked good this season. They are not great goalies and are no better than those, and probably worse than those guys on my list. Over the course of three years, there were many options for Adams to correct this situation, but he screwed up, period.

 

[Old Navy Goat]

No smart goalie unless on their final contract would want to play behind that shit show defense. Even prime Hasek would have terrible stats with the chances they're giving up. I swear it's like most don't watch the game but just want to rail against the sky

 

[Irie]

Well, of course, another excuse for the GM. This is nonsense dude, you don’t know what they would look like here. Anderson, 40, was average last season with garbage defense, Comrie has looked good this season. They are not great goalies and are no better than those, and probably worse than those guys on my list. Over the course of three years, there were many options for Adams to correct this situation, but he screwed up, period.

Honestly, this is not really about Adams. It's not excuses for a GM, but just plain reality.

I've been watching this league for over 40 years and the one constant is that average goalies will have below average stats behind sub-par defensive teams. You say I don't know what they would look like, and that is not true. Watching all these average goalies play games when their teams don't show up defensively, they all struggle. There are only a handful of goalies playing currently who are difference makers in those situations, and none of them were ever likely available... at least not at a price anyone on these boards would have been comfortable paying.

I do not think you have the footing to stand on to come in here and say Adams "screwed up, period" when he did not tie the franchise into any bad UFA boat anchor goalie contracts after some of the takes you have had during the timeframe.

"Campbell for 2-3 years would be a great signing" - Fjordy May 16th 2022

 

[Fjordy]

Honestly, this is not really about Adams. It's not excuses for a GM, but just plain reality.

I've been watching this league for over 40 years and the one constant is that average goalies will have below average stats behind sub-par defensive teams. You say I don't know what they would look like, and that is not true. Watching all these average goalies play games when their teams don't show up defensively, they all struggle. There are only a handful of goalies playing currently who are difference makers in those situations, and none of them were ever likely available... at least not at a price anyone on these boards would have been comfortable paying.

I do not think you have the footing to stand on to come in here and say Adams "screwed up, period" when he did not tie the franchise into any bad UFA boat anchor goalie contracts after some of the takes you have had during the timeframe.

"Campbell for 2-3 years would be a great signing" - Fjordy May 16th 2022

Again the same thing, but there are facts and this is on Adams.

1. Adams did not re-sign our best goalie Ullmark, who, with a garbage defense where Risto was in the first pair and Dahlin looked bad under Krueger, kept the percentage above 91%+.

2. Three seasons have passed since then and we still have a problem with goalies. Adams hasn't replaced Ullmark in three seasons, which is plenty of time to fix the problem or at least try to sign someone, and like Campbell or another goalie, it's a risk, but GMs are taking risks to make the playoffs. Adams risks just as much or more by simply ignoring the problem.

3. I gave you an example that even the veteran Anderson wasn't that terrible last season with bad defense, same with Comrie earlier this season. So some average goalie could handle this quite well. I am sure that in three seasons it was quite possible to find the optimal option; there were dozens of different goalies both in trade and in the UFA. But Adams simply didn’t do anything, it’s on him that the team could miss the playoffs again and goalies will be one of the team’s problems.

 

[Old Navy Goat]

Um you seem to confidently forget that Ulmark walked. He wouldn't resign, it wasn't like Adams didn't try to resign him.

Campbell and Kuemper who both are boat anchors for their teams signed with potential contenders and are now sinking their teams. Adams tried trading for a goalie, who used their NTC and then went and signed Comrie. So it's not like he didn't make an effort, even though you don't like the outcome

 

[Fjordy]

Um you seem to confidently forget that Ulmark walked. He wouldn't resign, it wasn't like Adams didn't try to resign him.

Campbell and Kuemper who both are boat anchors for their teams signed with potential contenders and are now sinking their teams. Adams tried trading for a goalie, who used their NTC and then went and signed Comrie. So it's not like he didn't make an effort, even though you don't like the outcome

Yes, because Adams didn't negotiate a contract with him, but that's okay, he hasn't found a replacement for him in three seasons. Of course, he may have tried to get a goalie, but he didn’t, there were a huge number of options without NTC, there were goalies in UFA who are not named Campbell and Kuemper. Instead, they continued to play with Dell, Tokarski, UPL, Anderson, Subban and even Houser. Three seasons is a long time to get at least an average goalie and not risk missing the playoffs again. There's no excuse for Kevyn.

 

[Ace]

Yes, because Adams didn't negotiate a contract with him, but that's okay, he hasn't found a replacement for him in three seasons. Of course, he may have tried to get a goalie, but he didn’t, there were a huge number of options without NTC, there were goalies in UFA who are not named Campbell and Kuemper. Instead, they continued to play with Dell, Tokarski, UPL, Anderson, Subban and even Houser. Three seasons is a long time to get at least an average goalie and not risk missing the playoffs again. There's no excuse for Kevyn.

At least his complete failure to get an average goalie they could trust to play games didn’t lead to immediate injury for their top prospect due to over usage.

oh wait.

that happened too.

His utter and total failure is now actively hurting his only chance to dig out of his self created hole. That chance being…a 21 year old being forced to make an unprecedented leap that could destroy his career.

It’s a spectacular failure.

That he called a position of strength.

 

[dortt]

No smart goalie unless on their final contract would want to play behind that shit show defense. Even prime Hasek would have terrible stats with the chances they're giving up. I swear it's like most don't watch the game but just want to rail against the sky

You forget just how good Hasek was. He played behind a D nearly as bad as our current D. Plus, he didn't get the goal support that our current goalies receive.

Of course, he was a perennial Hart finalist and 6 time Vezina winner, so it's not fair to compare our current goalies to Hasek

 

[Old Navy Goat]

I haven't forgot but I also realise how bad those cross passes, wide open shots a few feet from the cage, all the breakaways they've given up would have ruined his save % and GAA

 

[BowieSabresFan]

At least his complete failure to get an average goalie they could trust to play games didn’t lead to immediate injury for their top prospect due to over usage.

oh wait.

that happened too.

His utter and total failure is now actively hurting his only chance to dig out of his self created hole. That chance being…a 21 year old being forced to make an unprecedented leap that could destroy his career.

It’s a spectacular failure.

That he called a position of strength.

Over usage? Come on now.

 

[Jim Bob]

lehner, ullmark, and now johansson

How many of them were coached by Bales, though?

 

[Jim Bob]

Um you seem to confidently forget that Ulmark walked. He wouldn't resign, it wasn't like Adams didn't try to resign him.

Campbell and Kuemper who both are boat anchors for their teams signed with potential contenders and are now sinking their teams. Adams tried trading for a goalie, who used their NTC and then went and signed Comrie. So it's not like he didn't make an effort, even though you don't like the outcome

Ullmark walked because Adams balked at his asking price which reportedly was 6x6.

Hindsight being 20/20, I would much prefer Ullmark at 6x6 than say trading for Gibson.

 

[Club]

One of the few teams to carry 3 goaltenders... & now we need more.

 

[itwasaforwardpass]

One of the few teams to carry 3 goaltenders... & now we need more.

Why didn't Adams foresee this and carry 5 goalies instead. Complete and utter failure on his part. /s

 

[Chainshot]

Why didn't Adams foresee this and carry 5 goalies instead. Complete and utter failure on his part. /s

And yet he does have 5 signed to NHL deals and a 6th who has shown loyalty while getting the occasional NHL deal over the last handful of years.

 

[Sabreality]

GOALIES!

 

[Svedu]

Again a decent or good first period from UPL but not that impressive D... Surprise surprise.

 

[sabresEH]

He gets credit for not waiving Tage Thompson.

He actively tried to trade Tage Thompson and couldn't get any takers.

He is lucky that he was still here when he broke out.

According to 32 thoughts(can’t remember if it was Elliott or Marek) but they said there was a trade, agreed upon by both GM’s. Tage Thompson for a 5th, but Shanahan nixed it if I recall correctly.

This trade was pre Seattle expansion draft if I’m remembering everything right.

 

[Irie]

According to 32 thoughts(can’t remember if it was Elliott or Marek) but they said there was a trade, agreed upon by both GM’s. Tage Thompson for a 5th, but Shanahan nixed it if I recall correctly.

This trade was pre Seattle expansion draft if I’m remembering everything right.

I thought that trade rumor was proven fake, as it started on a fake account pretending to be Seravalli?

It fooled a few sources and they posted it, but the original was just someone engaging in shenanigans.

Was the news of it being "fake", fake?

 

[Dirty Dog]

He actively tried to trade Tage Thompson and couldn't get any takers.

He is lucky that he was still here when he broke out.

Well, it was actually YOU who wanted to trade thompson.

And also YOU who was against that contract.

So maybe, not criticize KA on that front?