Player Discussion All Purpose Goaltending Thread

[Ace]

I brought up the idea of the future being three goalie systems last season. That is not what Buffalo had last year or what we would be bringing back this year. That is an idea based on having three at least DECENT goalies who have different strengths. Not one good young goalie two clowns. The idea is having players who match up against different team’s styles…any of whom could get hot come the playoffs. Not Comrie and UPL because you can’t figure out who is worse. If we had Levi and two proven guys…that’s a three goalie system. Levi, Comrie and UPL is a joke. It’s having two goalies you shouldn’t keep and keeping both of them. That’s a one goalie system and a bunch of bullshit.

 

[Jim Bob]

Goalie Musical Chairs: Breaking Down the 2023-24 Atlantic Division Tandems

What do fans have to be happy, hopeful and nervous about for each tandem in 2023-24?

www.dailyfaceoff.com

Buffalo Sabres: Ukko-Pekka Luukkonen, Eric Comrie, & Devon Levi​

Reason to be happy: Doesn’t it feel like the Sabres have finally turned the corner? GM Kevyn Adams did a nice job of bolstering his defense this offseason, which should help the team’s netminders.

Reason to be hopeful: Buffalo is on the rise, and in my eyes, that includes goaltending with the arrival of Devon Levi. The product of Northeastern University has been dominant at every level leading up to his first full professional campaign. In a seven-game cameo last season, Levi looked at home in the Sabres crease.

Reason to be nervous: Comrie didn’t perform as expected during the 2022-23 season, and I think Luukkonen has hit a wall in terms of development. So unless Comrie rebounds, the fate of the Sabres lies in the hands of Levi. But he might not be ready for full-time NHL duty. It’s extremely difficult to go from NCAA hockey to the NHL. Levi will likely need time in the AHL this season to hone his craft. Adams has been patient in rebuilding, and that needs to continue with Levi’s development. But I wonder if Buffalo is eventually forced to bring in a proven veteran.

 

[Rowley Birkin]

I brought up the idea of the future being three goalie systems last season. That is not what Buffalo had last year or what we would be bringing back this year. That is an idea based on having three at least DECENT goalies who have different strengths. Not one good young goalie two clowns. The idea is having players who match up against different team’s styles…any of whom could get hot come the playoffs. Not Comrie and UPL because you can’t figure out who is worse. If we had Levi and two proven guys…that’s a three goalie system. Levi, Comrie and UPL is a joke. It’s having two goalies you shouldn’t keep and keeping both of them. That’s a one goalie system and a bunch of bullshit.

I don't think that a three headed monster is ever ideal. There are too many issues - mostly off Ice related. Not to mention that it uses up a roster spot which is normally better served on a 14F/8D.

In an ideal world I want:

A solid NHL tandem
- either a definitive starter (eg Hellebuyck) with a capable vet backup (eg Brossoit)
- or a true 1A/1B tandem who compliment each other (eg Fleury/Gustavsson) which seems to be coming more into vogue lately

An experienced organisational #3/4 in the AHL who won't completely stink at the NHL (eg Tokarski)

A young guy in the AHL with upside. (eg Levi as an extreme example if we were in an ideal world).

 

[old kummelweck]

Goalie Musical Chairs: Breaking Down the 2023-24 Atlantic Division Tandems

What do fans have to be happy, hopeful and nervous about for each tandem in 2023-24?

www.dailyfaceoff.com

Product of Northeastern University? Alrighty.

 

[toddkaz]

Stop right there. Anything after is irrelevant. Sample size matters. Context matters.

I think Levi is a great goalie prospect. But a 7 game run shouldn’t be used for any significant decision making.

Who said anything about decision making off of 7 games? Its just interesting information to look at.

Nowhere in my post did I say anything about making decisions. Sorry if a small sample size offends you.

 

[Dubi Doo]

It's absolutely a risk to go into the season with Levi playing a significant amount of games. It's also tough to find a solid #1. There are a lot of variables involved in a goaltender's stats and performance.

I really would love to find a #1 to carry the load for a season or two, but what's the price? I'd trade a 1st for a season of Hellebuyck. I would not pay a 1st + for Hart. Saros doesn't seem to be available. So, what are we left with? A crapshoot. It sucks, but that's the reality.

Hopefully, Adams can figure something out, but Im not going to hang him over it. Im slightly optimistic about him if Im being honest, but goaltending could be his Achilles heel.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

“All purpose goaltending thread,” you say?

 

[freester]

I firmly believe KA wants to trade for Helleybuck. He’s just waiting for Chevy to lower his asking price. It’s a poker match and they’re both good players.

 

[toddkaz]

I firmly believe KA wants to trade for Helleybuck. He’s just waiting for Chevy to lower his asking price. It’s a poker match and they’re both good players.

I firmly believe Adams is set and these are our starting goalies.
Levi
UPL
Comrie
I bet money on it that this is opening night.

 

[elchud]

^^^ this

I'd like to think they make a move if they are on the outside looking in halfway through.

 

[Jim Bob]

I firmly believe KA wants to trade for Helleybuck. He’s just waiting for Chevy to lower his asking price. It’s a poker match and they’re both good players.

I doubt that is the case.

Not only does KA want nothing to do with the trade package that Chevy wants, I am guessing that he wants nothing to do with what Helley wants for a contract extension. And I really think that KA wants absolutely nothing to do with giving up what it would take to trade for Helley for only one season of Helley as a Sabre.

And no matter how long KA waits, I doubt Chevy gets his trade request so low that KA wants to make the deal to rent Helley for one season.

 

[Jim Bob]

How the 10 biggest moves from 2022's goalie carousel panned out

With Ilya Samsonov now under contract for one more year with the Toronto Maple Leafs, it's time to take a look back at how things developed following the 2022 goalie musical chairs.

www.sportsnet.ca

 

[Jim Bob]

 

[RefsIdeas]

And Knight still spent a little time in the AHL that year, only played 32 NHL games (had .908%)

I think many are expecting Levi to play 40+ for the Sabres this year.

 

[elchud]

Even if Levi "disappoints", I think most of us thinks he's still a better option in net than UPL and Comrie. Disappoints would be in the .900 to .905 range. If he's below that he should be AHL bound and maybe they bring up Tokarski?!?!?!

He's the best option in net right now. The people who run the team love him and I reckon he was told that they had confidence that he could be the #1 guy from the start. Not saying that they promised him anything, just that they aren't planning on adding an established #1 guy, unless he needs AHL seasoning.

Where we are is, Levi will either show he needs AHL seasoning or he will be the guy. He currently is the guy. I dont think the team is all in knots about this situation. A 2nd/3rd/or4th is enough to add a veteran G mid-season if we need to do that.

 

[Jim Bob]

Even if Levi "disappoints", I think most of us thinks he's still a better option in net than UPL and Comrie. Disappoints would be in the .900 to .905 range. If he's below that he should be AHL bound and maybe they bring up Tokarski?!?!?!

He's the best option in net right now. The people who run the team love him and I reckon he was told that they had confidence that he could be the #1 guy from the start. Not saying that they promised him anything, just that they aren't planning on adding an established #1 guy, unless he needs AHL seasoning.

Where we are is, Levi will either show he needs AHL seasoning or he will be the guy. He currently is the guy. I dont think the team is all in knots about this situation. A 2nd/3rd/or4th is enough to add a veteran G mid-season if we need to do that.

Making a deal like that for a goalie that can give them decent 1 or 1A play is way easier said than done.

 

[RefsIdeas]

Making a deal like that for a goalie that can give them decent 1 or 1A play is way easier said than done.

Yep. Those in-season trades rarely happen. If it’s at the deadline, it’s likely too late.

 

[Jim Bob]

Yep. Those in-season trades rarely happen. If it’s at the deadline, it’s likely too late.

And a lot of those TDL moves have not worked out well as it takes time for the goalie to acclimate to the new team.

 

[elchud]

We need one of Levi UPL Comrie Tokarski to be consistently average. In the search for that end, we need to avoid goalies who are going to have a 1-10-1 record.

Given that we will have below average to average goaltending, we need to average 3.6 or more goals a night and have better defensive play than last season.

But I think that Levi will perform like an average NHL starting goalie this season. So there's nothing to worry about!!!

!!!

 

[Fezzy126]

And a lot of those TDL moves have not worked out well as it takes time for the goalie to acclimate to the new team.

Has any formal analysis been done on this? I've heard some of the goalie gurus speak about this and even statements from Miller after his trade to the Blues backing up this statement, but I haven't seen any formal studies done on this to backup this statement.

Off the top of my head I can think of a few in season trades that worked out well; Dubnyk, Bishop, Luongo, even Roloson's Stanley Cup run with the Oilers came after an in-season trade right?

I'm not arguing against this mentality, more just curious about how valid it is as a broad statement. For example, we now look at the types of shots goalies are stronger and weaker against, I wonder if a goalie matches up with a certain team's system better, would an in-season trade be less of a concern?

 

[Royal Thunder]

Has any formal analysis been done on this? I've heard some of the goalie gurus speak about this and even statements from Miller after his trade to the Blues backing up this statement, but I haven't seen any formal studies done on this to backup this statement.

Off the top of my head I can think of a few in season trades that worked out well; Dubnyk, Bishop, Luongo, even Roloson's Stanley Cup run with the Oilers came after an in-season trade right?

I'm not arguing against this mentality, more just curious about how valid it is as a broad statement. For example, we now look at the types of shots goalies are stronger and weaker against, I wonder if a goalie matches up with a certain team's system better, would an in-season trade be less of a concern?

Don’t forget Kiprusoff who came right in when Turek got hurt and absolutely lit the world on fire

 

[Jim Bob]

Has any formal analysis been done on this? I've heard some of the goalie gurus speak about this and even statements from Miller after his trade to the Blues backing up this statement, but I haven't seen any formal studies done on this to backup this statement.

Off the top of my head I can think of a few in season trades that worked out well; Dubnyk, Bishop, Luongo, even Roloson's Stanley Cup run with the Oilers came after an in-season trade right?

I'm not arguing against this mentality, more just curious about how valid it is as a broad statement. For example, we now look at the types of shots goalies are stronger and weaker against, I wonder if a goalie matches up with a certain team's system better, would an in-season trade be less of a concern?

Trade Deadline moves present unique challenges for goalies | NHL.com

Ability to mesh with new team, make style adaptations quickly among keys to success

www.nhl.com

I thought Kevin did a similar article last year that included MAF struggling in Minnesota, but I can't find it. It may have been a podcast interview that I am thinking of, too.

 

[Fezzy126]

Trade Deadline moves present unique challenges for goalies | NHL.com

Ability to mesh with new team, make style adaptations quickly among keys to success

www.nhl.com

I thought Kevin did a similar article last year that included MAF struggling in Minnesota, but I can't find it. It may have been a podcast interview that I am thinking of, too.

Interesting, Woodley touches on the matching between goalie and system:

Still, finding the perfect fit between goaltender and system isn't always easy.

Goalies can adapt, but making the right reads and predicting plays properly is not solely a function of anticipating what attacking players will do. Much is predicated on knowing what your team is trying to force the opposition to do, what options teammates are responsible for taking away first and what remains to be done by the goalie.

But then there is also quite a bit written about the goalie's adaptability as well.

Sounds like quite a bit of responsibility is on a team's scouting and analytics department, more so than a skater.

 

[Dingo44]

Has any formal analysis been done on this? I've heard some of the goalie gurus speak about this and even statements from Miller after his trade to the Blues backing up this statement, but I haven't seen any formal studies done on this to backup this statement.

Off the top of my head I can think of a few in season trades that worked out well; Dubnyk, Bishop, Luongo, even Roloson's Stanley Cup run with the Oilers came after an in-season trade right?

I'm not arguing against this mentality, more just curious about how valid it is as a broad statement. For example, we now look at the types of shots goalies are stronger and weaker against, I wonder if a goalie matches up with a certain team's system better, would an in-season trade be less of a concern?

My question is how much of an advantage is a goalie playing for the minor league affiliate as opposed to another NHL team? Lots of cases of goalies being called up from the minors near the end of the year and going on heroic runs at the end of the season and in the playoffs (Dryden, Penney, Roy, Hedberg, Hammond, Lyon...I'm sure a lot more).

 

[RefsIdeas]

My question is how much of an advantage is a goalie playing for the minor league affiliate as opposed to another NHL team? Lots of cases of goalies being called up from the minors near the end of the year and going on heroic runs at the end of the season and in the playoffs (Dryden, Penney, Roy, Hedberg, Hammond, Lyon...I'm sure a lot more).

While some of the names you listed are studs, others were just a flash in the pan.

A big reason why goalies can often get off to a hot start is that teams don’t have much to pre-scout on. Once the “book” is out on a goalie, it gets a lot tougher.

It’s perhaps my biggest reason for being hesitant on Levi next year. Once teams figure out his weaknesses - how does he respond? Personally, I’d like him to figure that out in Rochester and not here. I’m also looking to see how UPL responds - Mike McKenna believes that was a reason why he struggled after his good run in January. Teams just figured him out.