Player Discussion All Purpose Goaltending Thread

[Zman5778]

I wouldn't like to either. However, with our offense, this is a cup winning team with mere average goaltending. We could be like the 2005-2007 Sabres and win 8-5 if we had to

Our team defense is bad enough that an average NHL goalie would put up "AHL level stats".

Our team defense is nowhere near good enough to MAKE the playoffs right now, nevermind any meaningful run.

 

[Chainshot]

If the benchmark is the post lockout squad, they had multiple matchup options and two quality defensive centers to lean on between Drury and Gaustad as well as a pile of quality 2-way wingers that this team just does not have let alone the difference between a young Miller, an established Biron and what Buffalo has in net right now.

 

[dortt]

Our team defense is bad enough that an average NHL goalie would put up "AHL level stats".

Our team defense is nowhere near good enough to MAKE the playoffs right now, nevermind any meaningful run.

100% disagree with you. Average goalies don't make the mistakes that Comrie and UPL are making, such as not getting square to the shooter

 

[Jacob582]

Would you claim Hellberg if Detroit puts him on waivers?

 

[Jacob582]

I wonder if they contemplate giving Subban a couple games before the new year and Comrie coming back ?

Subban with a 0.821 save percentage in his game tonight.

 

[Fjordy]

UPL really bad, need goalie.

 

[Jim Bob]

Comrie had a .930 save percentage before the defense went into the ICU. Let's see when he is back with their defense healthy before making more hyperbolic commentary.

One thing that has been missing from the goalie conversations is that the team defense in front of the goalies matter.

This team has not been good at defending shots from passes across the slot line.

You also have the issue of a goalie learning to play behind a new team. There is an adjustment period. Ullmark in Boston is a decent example. He is markedly better this year after having a full season in Boston behind him. I do not think that is a fluke.

And then you have the challenge of landing a goalie that is playing well. Only one of the top 10 goalies in the NHL this season in GAA Better Than Expected moved over the summer.

And when it comes to Demko, trading for him isn't guaranteed to improve the Sabres goaltending this season. He is playing worse than all three Sabres goalies so far this season. And he's hurt. And if the Sabres trade for him, there would be an adjustment period.

 

[Chainshot]

One thing that has been missing from the goalie conversations is that the team defense in front of the goalies matter.

Oh, there are a few of us who keep pointing this out.

Over.

And over.

This team has not been good at defending shots from passes across the slot line.

You also have the issue of a goalie learning to play behind a new team. There is an adjustment period. Ullmark in Boston is a decent example. He is markedly better this year after having a full season in Boston behind him. I do not think that is a fluke.

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And then you have the challenge of landing a goalie that is playing well. Only one of the top 10 goalies in the NHL this season in GAA Better Than Expected moved over the summer.

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And when it comes to Demko, trading for him isn't guaranteed to improve the Sabres goaltending this season. He is playing worse than all three Sabres goalies so far this season. And he's hurt. And if the Sabres trade for him, there would be an adjustment period.

Agreed on all the rest of the points. They give up way too much in tight. They give up prime slot chances in droves. The mystical "good" tender people want to acquire is still going to have to face too many odd-man rushes and too many open looks from the slot. It's got to start with the skaters.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

Oh, there are a few of us who keep pointing this out.

Over.

And over.



Agreed on all the rest of the points. They give up way too much in tight. They give up prime slot chances in droves. The mystical "good" tender people want to acquire is still going to have to face too many odd-man rushes and too many open looks from the slot. It's got to start with the skaters.

And...I've had to get off my Husso high horse about four times to admit that the defense is a bigger problem than Comrie or UPL.

 

[Fjordy]

But we have almost no way to improve the defense. Dahlin, Samuelsson and Power lock. Jokiharju is recovering and looks good in the top 4. Boosh is still injured, but it is unlikely they will put him on the bench when he is healthy. Only LD in the third pair instead of Bryson.

 

[jc17]

Oh, there are a few of us who keep pointing this out.

Over.

And over.

They still had a couple tonight but they went from giving up half-a-dozen or more per night down to two or three as they've gotten healthier.

They want UPL to play to work on honing his craft, and I think that still factors into how they are approaching his time in Buffalo. He surprised during his recall last year with being steady prior to being injured. This recall has not been that. The issue is how long is the horizon for UPL development and is their plan to still have him graduate to the NHL next year without knowing what his development will be like over the rest of this season. And that's still concerning to me.

Right. And I guess that's partially what I'm getting at.

With skaters, as came up recently, most people seem to love the ideal of the proverbial "domination " of whatever league before arriving in the NHL. UPL hasn't dominated. When was his last good year, 2019 wjc and sudbury? He had 9 games here last year with a decent save%, so that can't be overlooked, but its a small sample.

I guess I just don't get what he's done to warrant being an option. If he was with another team, no one would remotely consider trading for him.

And again, sure team defense matters but when there are legitimate echl and ahl guys in front of the same team in roch, and no real difference in performance, it's a head scratcher. I guess getting tougher matchups will explain some of it, but still. Look at levi. He rose above some pretty bad defense, which I don't think is an unreasonable expectation for a guy at a lower level before making the jump


On a side note, how the team plays defense will be interesting. Does don start demanding it, or is he going to let the team figure out on their own that they score enough and now need to defend. It's always easier to do when its your own idea than someone demanding it, and I hope that's where the leaders step up

 

[Chainshot]

Right. And I guess that's partially what I'm getting at.

With skaters, as came up recently, most people seem to love the ideal of the proverbial "domination " of whatever league before arriving in the NHL. UPL hasn't dominated. When was his last good year, 2019 wjc and sudbury? He had 9 games here last year with a decent save%, so that can't be overlooked, but its a small sample.

I guess I just don't get what he's done to warrant being an option. If he was with another team, no one would remotely consider trading for him.

Probably that he did have that OHL MVP season gives him a lot of runway, perhaps prolonged after the hip surgeries. They are trying to find that MVP guy again - might not happen as his consistency has definitely been an issue in the AHL, but they are certainly giving him the opportunity. This season was supposed to be about reps, games played, and consistency. Comrie's injury has him up and on display before they've finished baking this particular cake.

And again, sure team defense matters but when there are legitimate echl and ahl guys in front of the same team in roch, and no real difference in performance, it's a head scratcher. I guess getting tougher matchups will explain some of it, but still. Look at levi. He rose above some pretty bad defense, which I don't think is an unreasonable expectation for a guy at a lower level before making the jump

Specific to the Sabres, Luukkonen is not a finished product by their own commentary. They are trying to improve him through use. Levi thus far appears to be a significantly better prospect. That said, Levi himself likes the approach of dominating at a particular level before moving up so it will be interesting to see how long he views himself as being in the AHL once he turns pro vs. how long the team wants to ferment him down there.

There is also something to the lack of defensive structure at both the NHL and AHL levels with this organization that lends itself to goalies who can handle the chaos of it. It's very much like ECHL play in that regard.

On a side note, how the team plays defense will be interesting. Does don start demanding it, or is he going to let the team figure out on their own that they score enough and now need to defend. It's always easier to do when its your own idea than someone demanding it, and I hope that's where the leaders step up

I was hoping to see them throttle back on the Jackets last night and stand tall in front of Luukkonen. They don't have much experience with that still and it showed. It may be that Don is now going to work in the stuff he talked about last year in terms of the defensive play - they have a chunk of games to point at as examples to show them they can score a lot but the game is not just about out gunning everyone every night. The teaching moment becomes getting them to buy in further to the defensive details that they need to improve.

 

[Jacob582]

Oh, there are a few of us who keep pointing this out.

Over.

And over.

True, but most of us would rather have four Craig Andersons right now (or a couple Tokarskis even) to play all 82 games. That is how bad Comrie and UPL has been.

 

[Jim Bob]

The Instigator Podcast 11.13 – Answers in Goal Won’t Come Easy for the Sabres

While virtually every aspect of the Buffalo Sabres play has been humming of late, their netminders have been suspect for most of the season. Ukko-Pekka Luukkonen has been given an opportunity to pr…

twointhebox.com

This was a good conversation about the desire to upgrade in goal.

 

[haseoke39]

I'd see what kind of Comrie we get back from injury. If there's a move to get a goalie, it's probably at the TDL. And at that point, you might be on the cusp of promoting Levi.

The implicit urgency of "we're a good goalie away from a cup run" is over the top. The Buffalo Sabres are showing signs of some elite potential, and it's very encouraging. But they're on a hot streak. Hot steaks end. They will lose some 2-1 games this year. This team did not finish an eight game losing streak to wash their hands of fallibility once and for all.

 

[Chainshot]

True, but most would rather have four Craig Andersons right now (or a couple Tokarskis even) to play all 82 games. That is how bad Comrie and UPL has been.

While Anderson's two-pad stack the other day was impressive, I don't know if they would allow them to play four of him at once. The stack would be quite high.

Bad defensive play in front of Tokarski or Dell caliber goalies would still be bad defensive play... and likely even more frustrating.

 

[Fezzy126]

Just a little reminder, this was the narrative the last time Comrie played with Samuelsson in the lineup:





Recency bias is strong here.

 

[Jacob582]

Recency bias is strong here.

Yes, I like my goalies to stop the puck.

While Anderson's two-pad stack the other day was impressive, I don't know if they would allow them to play four of him at once. The stack would be quite high.

Bad defensive play in front of Tokarski or Dell caliber goalies would still be bad defensive play... and likely even more frustrating.

Tokarski last year was better than UPL or Comrie this year.

 

[Chainshot]

Yes, I like my goalies to stop the puck.


Tokarski last year was better than UPL or Comrie this year.

I must've missed Ticker making back-to-back 40 save wins last year.

 

[Jim Bob]

Yes, I like my goalies to stop the puck.


Tokarski last year was better than UPL or Comrie this year.

Tokarski was not better last year than Comrie has been this year.

 

[MOGlLNY]

I’m willing to give Comrie a more fair shake than what he has gotten so far from our defense.

Adams owes it to the high level of play of his core players to make a move on defense though. I think that will go a long way to helping the goaltending issues for the time being.

 

[Gabrielor]

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Tokarski was not better last year than Comrie has been this year.

Though based on this, they aren't far apart...

 

[Jim Bob]

Though based on this, they aren't far apart...

The interesting thing to me is that UPL getting Comrie's starts has been way worse than what UPL showed with the Sabres last season.

 

[Dingo44]

Maybe give Subban a chance when he has gotten all the rust off and found his game. You know he's adored in the locker room. Let UPL try to get his game back in the AHL again.

I'm not saying it's a solution but why not?

 

[Sabreality]

The interesting thing to me is that UPL getting Comrie's starts has been way worse than what UPL showed with the Sabres last season.

Which leads me to believe theyre rebuilding his game (which I'm not sure I agree with necessarily) but it should be happening in Roch.

He looks even smaller this season, which had been a complaint of mine in the past, his technique is different, but if he's on that 'downward tracking, forward leaning' development track, it's going to take more time. Hopefully he can find a balance and still use his size, its one thing for goalies like Saros and Levi to play closer to the ice and track every puck, but I also think it can create holes for larger goalies. He's struggling with high shots since he's playing so low and I think the book is out on him right now, we're seeing a lot of shot attempts top 1/3 of the net on him.