Player Discussion All Purpose Goaltending Thread

[dortt]

Do you know what that kind of thinking is?

It's hubris. The idea that

"Well OUR guy is special. OUR guy doesn't need AHL time"

When there is an accepted and well honed process for bringing a goalie up to speed in the NHL. I'm sure there is plenty in the NHL that is stupid and done for no reason. Given the pure value proposition of a ELC starting goalie could bring to cap strapped team, you would think that it would have been looked at...a lot. The fact that it is rarely or almost never done should speak to whether or not its a good idea.



This sample size is so stupidly small it's not even mentioning. I'm if we looked at UPL's best run of 7 games he was a world beater too.

When you have elite talent, you adapt the traditional methods to meet the needs of the elite talent.

You don't treat an elite player like a journeyman.

Most first round draft picks go back to junior. That does not mean McDavid needed another 2 years in junior

 

[CaliSabresfan24]

Mostly the rumors that he's very set in his ways and resistant to coaching. Which if those are true, I don't want that around Levi.

If those are true, then I am in the same boat as you.

 

[BUCKSHOT]

Chad says the Sabres are not comfortable with there goaltending situation (Clearly) but not uncomfortable enough to where they have to overpay for one.

-Say Briere's asking price for Hart is wayyy too high (Could possibly come down.)

wonder what the price is ?

Sabres are swimming in prospects, which I'd guess Philly is looking for

 

[CaliSabresfan24]

wonder what the price is ?

Sabres are swimming in prospects, which I'd guess Philly is looking for

Chad didn't say what they are asking but wasn't there a report that they were asking for 2 1st +? either way his asking price is gonna have to come down

 

[KiwiGriff]

I still think we end up with UPL and Levi as our duo with Comrie sent through waivers to be in Roch.

Is that how I want to start the season? No, but it is what I think will be the go. I don’t think the goalie market leaves us with many good alternatives and if you asked me for a realistic and better solution … I don’t have one. The slim choice of decent goalies in FA is gone. That leaves us with trades and if another team’s goalie is so good, in a tight market why would they trade them for anything short of a large haul in return?

I reckon 75% chance it’s UPL and Levi. That’s a tall ask for them but David Brailsford applied the idea that success is the accumulation of tiny improvements (the aggregation of marginal gains). Our D group is a bit better than last year as a collective. The young D-Men will be better individually, Levi as a goalie is better than Comrie/Anderson. UPL and Levi will each be better than they were last year. Add those all up and it could be a noticeable step up and we will be a successful team.

 

[Gras]

Doubtful that Adams would hinder Levi's path to full-time starter by acquiring a "name" goalie long-term. I'm still hoping for a passable NHL vet on a 2-3 year term.

If he sticks with Levi/UPL/Comrie to enter the season, fixing the PK and d-zone play seems like the simplest way to get competence from 3 unproven goalies. Easier said than done, or that would have happened last season.

Surely Adams isn't thinking of this as yet another "internal growth" development season. Anything short of a playoff berth will be a disappointing setback afaic.

The defensive side of the games wasnt a focus in the last season.

 

[Fjordy]

I mean this with no disrespect. How many Comrie games did you watch last year? I do recall that when you re-started posting, you had mentioned that you missed a whole lot of this past season.

Remember that Comrie stats are disproportionately terrible because of the 10-goal Dallas game where no one showed up and the 7-goal Vegas game where Bryson, Clague and Fitzgerald all played.

He stole 2 points from both Edmonton and Calgary. Beyond that and a solid performance in getting a point against Montreal, he was never the reason we won....nor the reason we lost.

Yes, I remember those games, but I also remember many other games. What difference does it make if I posted messages or not, I saw that he was bad.

Chad says the Sabres are not comfortable with there goaltending situation (Clearly) but not uncomfortable enough to where they have to overpay for one.

-Says they currently aren't in on Hellebuyck (thinks Winnipeg is hopeful to extend him... lol)

-Say Briere's asking price for Hart is wayyy too high (Could possibly come down.)

-Says Gibson is a possibility... Argued that Gibson could be better in a tandem roll.
Ducks need d-man which we have a lot of.

-Brought up Vladar but both Anthony and Chad think Levi needs a legit veteran to play with

Any of them will suit me, although Vladar probably won't. Then better DeSmith.

 

[Jim Bob]

Give me an actual better option right now including the realistic cost of acquiring the guy. Would you be willing to give up our 3 best prospects to either rent Hellybuck for a year or give him a Bob style long term anchor of a contract? Would you want to pay a high price for Gibson, a guy who everything about him indicates "Do not touch"? There is no easy answer here.

If he gets cleared in the Hockey Canada investigation, then seeing what Briere wants for Hart is the best move out there at this point.

After that, you are left with trading for Vladar or DeSmith or another backup that would be a slight upgrade on UPL/Comrie.

 

[Rasmus CacOlainen]

If he gets cleared in the Hockey Canada investigation, then seeing what Briere wants for Hart is the best move out there at this point.

After that, you are left with trading for Vladar or DeSmith or another backup that would be a slight upgrade on UPL/Comrie.

If they really want 2 1sts for Hart, you don't pay that until you are sure Levi is not the answer. Come on, we have to be somewhat sensible around here.

 

[Weltschmerz]

wonder what the price is ?

Sabres are swimming in prospects, which I'd guess Philly is looking for

Rumour was 2 first round picks some time ago.

 

[Fjordy]

Maybe 1st + prospect for Hart. McKenna said that Hart is one of the most technical goalies in the NHL and professional.

 

[Diaspora]

Maybe 1st + prospect for Hart. McKenna said that Hart is one of the most technical goalies in the NHL and professional.

1st, Rosen and a 6th makes it Hart for Risto

 

[Weltschmerz]

If he gets cleared in the Hockey Canada investigation, then seeing what Briere wants for Hart is the best move out there at this point.

After that, you are left with trading for Vladar or DeSmith or another backup that would be a slight upgrade on UPL/Comrie.

Is there any timeline when this will come to an end? It sounded like the results of the investigation should be out after the season but I can't find any news about it.

 

[Fjordy]

Is there any timeline when this will come to an end? It sounded like the results of the investigation should be out after the season but I can't find any news about it.

I read yesterday that in July.

 

[TehDoak]

When you have elite talent, you adapt the traditional methods to meet the needs of the elite talent.

You don't treat an elite player like a journeyman.

Most first round draft picks go back to junior. That does not mean McDavid needed another 2 years in junior

Again, Hubris.

The team would be assuming that Levi is an exception and is just so amazing that he doesn't need AHL time.

Levi is a great prospect, he's not even the top goalie prospect in the NHL currently. Nearly all rankings have him behind Wolf, Wallstedt, and Askarov...all of whom spent last year in the AHL.

He's a great goalie prospect....he's not some elite talent that we simply cannot keep in the AHL because he's too good. The idea that he has earned the right to skip the AHL because of immense talent isn't correct.

The only reason we are even HAVING this conversation is that Adams has neglected to get an actual starting goalie the previous 2 season. If we even had below average goaltending, this wouldn't be a conversation. But because Adams has allowed us to have shit tier goaltending the last two seasons, this somehow seems like a fine idea.

 

[Deep Blue Metallic]

Levi belongs in the AHL this season, with a handful of callup games if he earns them.

The best way I can imagine to hinder his development would be to let him start the season in Buffalo, get rocked a few times, and get sent down to where he should have been playing in the first place. Why risk his growth, and possibly jeopardize a playoff berth, in hopes that our blue-chip future starter is a generational exception to the standard goalie development process?

That said, UPL+Comrie ain't the answer. Over to you, Kevyn.

 

[Gabrielor]

Carter Hart

Rfa in 24-25
Experienced
We can afford it
Levi mentor
Also easy Levi to supplant eventually.

I’ll happily pay 2 1sts to seriously push for the playoffs and also give Levi real support.

1st 24 with protection
Rosen/Ostlund, pick 1
Upl

 

[Ace]

If anyone thinks that Levi would be fast tracked in any other organization they’re kidding themselves. This one has no goalie because Adams has failed at every turn to acquire one. Now Levi is going to get the brunt of that failure and his development path is just skipped entirely because Adams didnt do his job. Four years in a row.

Now there will be much, much worse consequences than just missing the playoffs for a new record 13 times. Now he’s risking the only decent goalie in the organization because he refuses to do his job.

And judging by the prospect poll…more than half of the people here are not going to be able to handle what happens next.

 

[Beerz]

If anyone thinks that Levi would be fast tracked in any other organization they’re kidding themselves. This one has no goalie because Adams has failed at every turn to acquire one. Now Levi is going to get the brunt of that failure and his development path is just skipped entirely because Adams didnt do his job. Four years in a row.

Now there will be much, much worse consequences than just missing the playoffs for a new record 13 times. Now he’s risking the only decent goalie in the organization because he refuses to do his job.

And judging by the prospect poll…more than half of the people here are not going to be able to handle what happens next.

Not really a fair framing.... it's possible people think he is our best prospect and believe Adams should upgrade the goalie position and Levi belongs in the AHL

 

[MarkusKetterer]

Not really a fair framing.... it's possible people think he is our best prospect and believe Adams should upgrade the goalie position and Levi belongs in the AHL

No no. We’re all idiots and he’s the smartest person on here.

 

[HaNotsri]

Carter Hart

Rfa in 24-25
Experienced
We can afford it
Levi mentor
Also easy Levi to supplant eventually.

I’ll happily pay 2 1sts to seriously push for the playoffs and also give Levi real support.

1st 24 with protection
Rosen/Ostlund, pick 1
Upl

I'd be ok with 1st/prospect+2nd but that's my limit.
I see it as an investment in Levi as much as the coming season. He won't learn anything good from UPL/Comrie.

 

[Zman5778]

Carter Hart

Rfa in 24-25
Experienced
We can afford it
Levi mentor
Also easy Levi to supplant eventually.

I’ll happily pay 2 1sts to seriously push for the playoffs and also give Levi real support.

1st 24 with protection
Rosen/Ostlund, pick 1
Upl

I wouldn't be happy about it, but I'd do it. I just don't like/trust Hart (as a goalie -- no idea how he is as a person or in the room).

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

I don't like the market - lesser options and high prices. I doubt KA likes the market either, so they likely go with what they have and make a decision on Levi based on camp and pre-season games. Regardless of how that shakes out, KA and DG need to frame the mentality for the team to be defensively responsible and protective of the goal crease - whether that's to support a pure rookie in Levi or either UPL/Comrie. The priority needs to be driven home that this season's success hinges upon defensive effort and awareness. If that attitude is embraced due to a need to protect young/inexperienced goalies, then maybe that's a better dynamic going on then to have Helleybuyck in net, with the rest of the team falsely believing he can bail their irresponsible hockey out on a regular basis. Use the team spirit they have so far embraced and force them to play better for their green goalies.

 

[thelimit39]

It seems like many of the rumoured goalies have their warts, be it recent past performance, acquisition cost, or the potential to block Levi.

Going beyond the rumoured options, which goalie in the NHL, would satisfy the above conditions the most (in terms of acquisition cost, let's us assume the goalie was suddenly rumoured to be available)? In other words if you could pluck any goalie from another team to pair with Levi, or keep the seat warm while he plies his trade in Rochester, who would it be, and why? Looking for an ideal option.

Personally I'm struggling to come up with one myself.

 

[Beerz]

It seems like many of the rumoured goalies have their warts, be it recent past performance, acquisition cost, or the potential to block Levi.

Going beyond the rumoured options, which goalie in the NHL, would satisfy the above conditions the most (in terms of acquisition cost, let's us assume the goalie was suddenly rumoured to be available)? In other words if you could pluck any goalie from another team to pair with Levi, or keep the seat warm while he plies his trade in Rochester, who would it be, and why? Looking for an ideal option.

Personally I'm struggling to come up with one myself.

Saros.. basically same style and stature as Levi so perfect as a mentor... perfect contract...3 years and cap hit is good.
Elite talent.