Player Discussion All Purpose Goaltending Thread

[Zman5778]

I would be surprised if they are so confident in Levi after the 7 game sample that they make a move to thin out their goaltending depth before training camp.

And I think Comrie clears relatively easily given his salary and how rough a year he just had.

To the first statement: I never said it'd be before camp. If it happens, I'd expect it during/after camp when another team might panic about their goalie situation

To the 2nd -- I'm not so sure. He's proven he can be a quite capable backup behind a workhorse starter and is great in the room while doing so. If a team like the Rangers/Stars/Jets/Preds/Isles/etc have the cap room, I can easily see a claim.

 

[pigpen65]

Levi is 21. He needs to be in the AHL getting starts. UPL and Comrie are going to lead to the exact same results Adams has produced in net the last two years which is terrible goaltending. Adams needs to find a legit starting goaltender this offseason.

 

[Dirty Dog]

a question for everyone. Let’s pretend you can only keep one of Comrie or UPL (either because Levi is up in the NHL or to pair with a legit starter while Levi develops).

Who is everyone keeping? I think I prefer Comrie, give him a bit better defense and I think he can provide some consistency. UPL has the higher potential, but I don’t think we need to ride his ups and downs

 

[Diaspora]

Saros is firmly in the realm of something I would try and do if I were GM but not something I expect Kevyn Adams to actually do.

And honestly, I expect him to take the path of least resistance and run things back with UPL, Comrie, and Levi and let things play out in camp as they may.

I'm in agreement with you on this -- both the intent and the prediction.

He would be pretty much guaranteed to take the team to another level (with better PK coaching and incremental improvements to the defense, as the universal caveat).

Play here for two years and then, if Levi grows, move on for a big payday. If Levi combusts, he could be re-signed.

It's a go-for-it move. Maybe we're not ready for those yet. KA doesn't seem to be anyway, so the question is moot.

 

[Zman5778]

a question for everyone. Let’s pretend you can only keep one of Comrie or UPL (either because Levi is up in the NHL or to pair with a legit starter while Levi develops).

Who is everyone keeping? I think I prefer Comrie, give him a bit better defense and I think he can provide some consistency. UPL has the higher potential, but I don’t think we need to ride his ups and downs

I'm keeping Comrie. He's a great fit in the locker room and is more consistent than UPL. And has plenty of experience being a backup.

 

[Beerz]

a question for everyone. Let’s pretend you can only keep one of Comrie or UPL (either because Levi is up in the NHL or to pair with a legit starter while Levi develops).

Who is everyone keeping? I think I prefer Comrie, give him a bit better defense and I think he can provide some consistency. UPL has the higher potential, but I don’t think we need to ride his ups and downs

UPL easily. Younger.. more upside. And felt more confident with UPL in net than Comrie.. not that I felt super confident with UPL ..just more confident

 

[TehDoak]

I've been doing a bit of matchmaking via the UFA goaltenders.

I have these teams as looking for a goalie:

LA
San Jose
Vegas (Maybe)
Chicago
Buffalo
Pittsburgh
Ottawa
Carolina

The UFA goalies, by starts:

Jones
Jarry
Reimer
Quick
Korpisalo
Talbot
Andersen
Raanta
Stalock
Hill
Varlamov


Vegas and Hill probably depends on Lehner's health. I have him most likely staying there

LA and Korpisalo seem like a decent-ish fit.

Quick I see retiring

Raanta -> Carolina to play with their young goalie

I could see Andersen ending up in Ottawa, Pittsburgh, or Buffalo.

I don't think anyone is bringing Jones in as their starter...however, I see him in a 'tadem' -esque role in Chicago or maybe Detroit.

Varlamov -> Back to NYI

Reimer: Retiring or as a backup

Stalock -> Backup

Jarry -> Another one for the Ottawa/Pittsburgh/Buffalo competition.

Talbot -> I don't think he gets picked up as a starter anywhere. Columbus would be an interesting spot. San Jose maybe? I don't think Buffalo is interested given they could have gotten him for basically nothing at the TDL and opted not to.

Overall, I think Andersen/Jarry both make sense for Buffalo. I don't know if they are willing to pay the contract price, especially since they'll be bidding against several other teams.

My guess is whoever misses out on those two gets Vladar from Calgary.

I wonder if San Jose ends up going after Swayman. San Jose has a lot of draft capital, sends Swayman to the other conference. Just seems like a natural fit unless Swayman takes a super low deal to stay in Boston.

 

[Rowley Birkin]

Saros is firmly in the realm of something I would try and do if I were GM but not something I expect Kevyn Adams to actually do.

And honestly, I expect him to take the path of least resistance and run things back with UPL, Comrie, and Levi and let things play out in camp as they may.

You could be right with the second paragraph. But going into the season with a three headed monster is a terrible idea. So is having UPL being the 'veteran' backup plan to Levi.

So I'd see the 'least resistence' path still involve a move in trading UPL. I'd hope to recoup a R2 pick for him.

But Levi / Comrie wouldn't leave me thrilled as a tandem.

 

[Jim Bob]

You could be right with the second paragraph. But going into the season with a three headed monster is a terrible idea. So is having UPL being the 'veteran' backup plan to Levi.

So I'd see the 'least resistence' path still involve a move in trading UPL. I'd hope to recoup a R2 pick for him.

But Levi / Comrie wouldn't leave me thrilled as a tandem.

The path of least resistance is doing absolutely nothing this off season. There is no reason to feel like they have to move UPL.

Go into camp with all three. If Levi doesn't look ready, send him to Rochester. If Levi does look ready and UPL outplays Comrie, you waive Comrie to Rochester. The only really challenging situation I see is if Levi looks ready and Comrie outplays UPL in camp. But, I think they could trade UPL toward the end of camp and not have to waive him.

Ultimately, last season taught me that Adams is patient and does not feel like he HAS to make moves that many fans say he HAS to make.

 

[Rowley Birkin]

The path of least resistance is doing absolutely nothing this off season. There is no reason to feel like they have to move UPL.

Go into camp with all three. If Levi doesn't look ready, send him to Rochester. If Levi does look ready and UPL outplays Comrie, you waive Comrie to Rochester. The only really challenging situation I see is if Levi looks ready and Comrie outplays UPL in camp. But, I think they could trade UPL toward the end of camp and not have to waive him.

Ultimately, last season taught me that Adams is patient and does not feel like he HAS to make moves that many fans say he HAS to make.

Levi/UPL is a disaster waiting to happen.

 

[TehDoak]

I mean, i see 3 ways things can go this summer:

1. The status quo. Essentially, no outside goalie is added to the top 3, we go into the season with UPL, Comrie, and Levi. This feels like the most likely and the worst case scenario as its almost all involved. It immediately ratchets up the pressure on Levi as he's almost the default starter and neither UPL or Levi have anyone other than the coaches to help them learn to be a NHL goalie.

2. Bring in veteran, Comrie out, UPL/Levi fight it out for tandem role. This probably is a bit tilted towards UPL winning simply because Levi won't have to pass thru waivers.

3. Bring in veteran, UPL moved, one of Comrie/Levi rochester bound. This is probably more towards Levi being in the NHL as Comrie would likely pass waivers.

I think a lot of this probably depends on "Will the team ever be comfortable with a UPL/Levi tandem"

From a pure asset management point of view, I think you if you can add basically do an inplace upgrade of Comrie to a veteran starter who can be relied on for 40-50 games, that is the best route. You aren't losing UPL for pennies on the dollar, I think you take the pressure off of Levi as he doesn't have to be the starter next year, and you (probably) get the best immediate results.

There is the risk, of course, that UPL sucks it up at camp, Levi is good, and you are exposing UPL to waivers next. year.

 

[WhereAreTheCookies]

I mean, i see 3 ways things can go this summer:

1. The status quo. Essentially, no outside goalie is added to the top 3, we go into the season with UPL, Comrie, and Levi. This feels like the most likely and the worst case scenario as its almost all involved. It immediately ratchets up the pressure on Levi as he's almost the default starter and neither UPL or Levi have anyone other than the coaches to help them learn to be a NHL goalie.

2. Bring in veteran, Comrie out, UPL/Levi fight it out for tandem role. This probably is a bit tilted towards UPL winning simply because Levi won't have to pass thru waivers.

3. Bring in veteran, UPL moved, one of Comrie/Levi rochester bound. This is probably more towards Levi being in the NHL as Comrie would likely pass waivers.

I think a lot of this probably depends on "Will the team ever be comfortable with a UPL/Levi tandem"

From a pure asset management point of view, I think you if you can add basically do an inplace upgrade of Comrie to a veteran starter who can be relied on for 40-50 games, that is the best route. You aren't losing UPL for pennies on the dollar, I think you take the pressure off of Levi as he doesn't have to be the starter next year, and you (probably) get the best immediate results.

There is the risk, of course, that UPL sucks it up at camp, Levi is good, and you are exposing UPL to waivers next. year.

Part of me thinks Adams see's the need for a vet. He made a point of saying they wanted to get Levi around Anderson, and you have to think he realizes that a couple of weeks around a vet isn't going to be enough to fully prepare him. Comrie has been around, but he hasn't played the games to be considered any sort of veteran mentor. He's actually only played 1 more NHL game than UPL.

 

[Fezzy126]

The path of least resistance is doing absolutely nothing this off season. There is no reason to feel like they have to move UPL.

Go into camp with all three. If Levi doesn't look ready, send him to Rochester. If Levi does look ready and UPL outplays Comrie, you waive Comrie to Rochester. The only really challenging situation I see is if Levi looks ready and Comrie outplays UPL in camp. But, I think they could trade UPL toward the end of camp and not have to waive him.

Ultimately, last season taught me that Adams is patient and does not feel like he HAS to make moves that many fans say he HAS to make.

This exact situation is where I'm at.

I think Adams starts working on the framework for a UPL deal this offseason, but unless someone blows him away, he goes into camp with these 3 goalies. Just as you said, let the competition work itself out and if Levi or Comrie are 3rd in the race, there shouldn't be an issue with either heading down to Rochester - Levi would get extra seasoning and Comrie should clear waivers unless there's a desperate team out there (I don't think that'll be the case barring an injury situation).

But if UPL is the clear 3rd then I think it forces Adams hand to make a trade, I doubt he makes it through waivers and carrying 3 goalies is tough.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

a question for everyone. Let’s pretend you can only keep one of Comrie or UPL (either because Levi is up in the NHL or to pair with a legit starter while Levi develops).

Who is everyone keeping? I think I prefer Comrie, give him a bit better defense and I think he can provide some consistency. UPL has the higher potential, but I don’t think we need to ride his ups and downs

I prefer UPL as a developing guy with much better upside. Keeping UPL over Comrie would make more sense if you also go get a veteran, but I doubt that happens.

 

[NotABadPeriod]

What does NJ do in net? Schmid is looking like the real deal. Vanecek has 2 years at 3.4M left. Blackwood is arbitration eligible RFA this summer.

Wonder if they move one of Blackwood/Vanecek to make room for Schmid.

 

[TehDoak]

What does NJ do in net? Schmid is looking like the real deal. Vanecek has 2 years at 3.4M left. Blackwood is arbitration eligible RFA this summer.

Wonder if they move one of Blackwood/Vanecek to make room for Schmid.

It's quite easy, you trade Blackwood or just don't qualify him. He's gotten plenty of chances and he's either been bad or average. I'm not sure he's more than a marginal upgrade to Comrie.

 

[Chainshot]

What does NJ do in net? Schmid is looking like the real deal. Vanecek has 2 years at 3.4M left. Blackwood is arbitration eligible RFA this summer.

Wonder if they move one of Blackwood/Vanecek to make room for Schmid.

Blackwood has not been very good.

 

[Jacob582]

I doubt they will find a trading partner for Blackwood. They won't qualify him.

 

[dortt]

a question for everyone. Let’s pretend you can only keep one of Comrie or UPL (either because Levi is up in the NHL or to pair with a legit starter while Levi develops).

Who is everyone keeping? I think I prefer Comrie, give him a bit better defense and I think he can provide some consistency. UPL has the higher potential, but I don’t think we need to ride his ups and downs

Sabres are not high on comrie.

He was clearly the worst of our goalies. When levi needed a break in the must win stretch, it was upl they turned to. That is very telling

 

[dkollidas]

I think folks around here are drinking the press conference kool-aid a bit in the fact that they’ve talked up almost all their players.

1) Granato made almost no mention of Comrie. That tells me he’s going to be the “3rd goalie” as in put through waivers and sent to Rochester.

2) UPL was talked up, yes, but not like Levi. They believe in Levi and the team also believes in Levi.

3) the way they both (and Adams in particular) spoke about Anderson tells me they want a veteran around Levi. It might not be Saros, but a legit 1B type (Andersen/Raanta, Varlamov, Jarry, etc)

4) UPL will be dealt, likely wherever Big Head ends up or Seattle if he stays with the Kraken.

 

[Jim Bob]

Sabres are not high on comrie.

He was clearly the worst of our goalies. When levi needed a break in the must win stretch, it was upl they turned to. That is very telling

Fans and media have no real idea what Adams and company think about all three of their goalies and what approach they will take to the position this off season.

Just how like we all thought that they HAD to upgrade on Jokiharju as Power's primary D partner last off season and it didn't happen, we could very easily be viewing things differently than the Sabres are.

I think folks around here are drinking the press conference kool-aid a bit in the fact that they’ve talked up almost all their players.

1) Granato made almost no mention of Comrie. That tells me he’s going to be the “3rd goalie” as in put through waivers and sent to Rochester.

2) UPL was talked up, yes, but not like Levi. They believe in Levi and the team also believes in Levi.

3) the way they both (and Adams in particular) spoke about Anderson tells me they want a veteran around Levi. It might not be Saros, but a legit 1B type (Andersen/Raanta, Varlamov, Jarry, etc)

4) UPL will be dealt, likely wherever Big Head ends up or Seattle if he stays with the Kraken.

Be careful about trying to read too much into press conference stuff.

I have heard a lot that Adams never mentioned UPL last off season and he was not in the team's plans moving forward. And yet they kept him up and created the 3 goalie mess when it would have been easier to send him back to Rochester when Comrie was healthy.

 

[Jim Bob]

The Book on Andrei Vasilevskiy

Goalie scouting: trivial until it isn't

jhanhky.substack.com

Here is a good post that talks about how different goalies win in different ways and you need to know what a goalie is good at and bad at and how your team plays to get the right marriage of goalie and team.

 

[TehDoak]

Fans and media have no real idea what Adams and company think about all three of their goalies and what approach they will take to the position this off season.

This is implying the Sabres front office thinks about goaltending. I've got 3 seasons of history suggesting the opposite.

Just how like we all thought that they HAD to upgrade on Jokiharju as Power's primary D partner last off season and it didn't happen, we could very easily be viewing things differently than the Sabres are.

I mean...they did need to upgrade Joker last year. They didn't. It cost us. This should be the big point here. Just like goaltending....the front office has a hard time doing even basic evaluation of their needs.

Be careful about trying to read too much into press conference stuff.

I have heard a lot that Adams never mentioned UPL last off season and he was not in the team's plans moving forward. And yet they kept him up and created the 3 goalie mess when it would have been easier to send him back to Rochester when Comrie was healthy.

I mean, the most telling thing about the front office and goalies is they played Levi in a back and back when the season was on the line. That should tell you everything you need to know what they think about UPL, Comrie, and Levi.

I don't know what they will do this summer, but they clearly (and incorrectly) are going to put Levi in the starters role next year. We could upgrade on Comrie or move out UPL.....but despite mountains of evidence that goalies almost always need some AHL to adjust to the pro game, Adams essentially was bragging that isn't what they were going to do. I believe he used the word "fearless" in describing the front office when asked about the goalie situation.

It's frustrating to watch because they've done a lot right in terms of the rebuild. But....the (assumed) handling of Levi here is in error. Maybe they'll surprise me and upgrade on Comrie and give Levi his AHL time....I don't think they will, however.

The most telling thing about the current front office is when Warow, as poorly as he worded it, suggested this season was a missed opportunity, Adams literally scoffed at him. Like it was the stupidest thing he'd ever heard. The fact he made him repeat it multiple times because he couldn't comprehend anyone asking about this season not being a rousing success. Adams did a victory lap about....missing the playoffs by a point. It's one thing to be proud of how far the team came this year, that's fine. But the lack of any sort of regret from clear missed opportunities from the front office is really telling.

 

[Jim Bob]

The most telling thing about the current front office is when Warow, as poorly as he worded it, suggested this season was a missed opportunity, Adams literally scoffed at him. Like it was the stupidest thing he'd ever heard. The fact he made him repeat it multiple times because he couldn't comprehend anyone asking about this season not being a rousing success. Adams did a victory lap about....missing the playoffs by a point. It's one thing to be proud of how far the team came this year, that's fine. But the lack of any sort of regret from clear missed opportunities from the front office is really telling.

I was not surprised that Adams took the glass half full approach to how the season went.

He has a plan and he is sticking to it. And focusing on the 16 point improvement in the standings versus coming one win short of ending the playoff drought does not surprise me in the least. Adams said this was a building season last off season. They made minimal changes to the roster and banked on growth from within to lead to an improvement in the standings. That happened despite a lot of fans and media feeling they didn't do enough.

Adams isn't going to focus on the negative. Neither with Granato. That is not how they are wired.

 

[joshjull]

It's not a stretch. And it's not even 3D chess.

It's as simple as Adams acquiring Levi & being convinced that he's going to be his guy as soon as he signs - that he's not even been interested in acquiring any other legitimate competition.

Adams thinking Levi is the long term answer in net is not the same as the coach deciding to play him down the stretch because he played well. If Levi struggled in his first game, he’s not starting the rest of the way like he did. You're conflating two different things.