Player Discussion All Purpose Goaltending Thread

[RefsIdeas]

If they traded for Saros he would be getting the 50ish starts not Levi and at that point it definitely wouldn't make sense to have Levi up in the NHL for ~30 starts so you would be looking at Saros/Comrie in the NHL and Levi/Subban/Houser/UFA in Roch.


Be interesting to filter the charts so only games with Mattias are shown for each goalie.

While I do think Samuelsson is underrated by the analytics due to his usage with the Sabres - I don't think you'll find it makes as big of an impact as one may suspect. He had a pretty rough stretch in Dec - Jan where he wasn't playing so well. We can see that our team sv% when he was on the ice was 91.47% (6th on the team) and that we outscored opponents 55-48 when he was on the ice at 5-on-5. However, his RAPM charts show a below average defensive impact.

I know we like to point out our record with and without Samuelsson, but as others have pointed out on various threads here - our team defense as a whole was the big issue. While Samuelsson is certainly a good defensive player, one guy isn't going to be the cure-all for our defensive woes.

 

[joshjull]

I do not see Comrie or UPL playing a style of game that is solid behind a team that gives up a ton of east to west plays.

That was the big difference with Levi. He was able to beat a lot those plays on his feet and take away the low areas. Anderson relied on his experience and his next level ability to read plays to survive.

Neither Comrie nor UPL have the ability to read the game the way Anderson did or beat plays on their feet like Levi can.

View attachment 690937

Quality Starts are a flawed stat. But, I do think it tells the tale of how inconsistent UPL and Comrie were behind this team compared to Anderson and Levi.

The same goes for GSAA.

And to say that it was just one or two bad starts that skewed everything is not being fair to how the goalies performed this season.

If Adams can't get someone in here that can have a .905+ Save% playing 40+ games next year, then I will have serious concerns about this team making the playoffs next season.

Levi only played 7 games. Its kind of nuts you’re trying to compare his “consistency level“ to the others.

 

[Gras]

While I do think Samuelsson is underrated by the analytics due to his usage with the Sabres - I don't think you'll find it makes as big of an impact as one may suspect. He had a pretty rough stretch in Dec - Jan where he wasn't playing so well. We can see that our team sv% when he was on the ice was 91.47% (6th on the team) and that we outscored opponents 55-48 when he was on the ice at 5-on-5. However, his RAPM charts show a below average defensive impact.

I know we like to point out our record with and without Samuelsson, but as others have pointed out on various threads here - our team defense as a whole was the big issue. While Samuelsson is certainly a good defensive player, one guy isn't going to be the cure-all for our defensive woes.

Well some people are under the impression that all we need is to replace Joker with another D and the problem is solved.

 

[Rowley Birkin]

If they traded for Saros he would be getting the 50ish starts not Levi and at that point it definitely wouldn't make sense to have Levi up in the NHL for ~30 starts so you would be looking at Saros/Comrie in the NHL and Levi/Subban/Houser/UFA in Roch.

Which is exactly why we're not trading for a guy like Saros. Zero % chance.

 

[Fezzy126]

If Adams can't get someone in here that can have a .905+ Save% playing 40+ games next year, then I will have serious concerns about this team making the playoffs next season.

There are only 15 guys in the league that met that criteria this year, the bar seems pretty high.

Even if we expand it to 35 games and 0.900, there are only 23 guys. Here's my thoughts on each:

	Player	Thoughts
1​	Linus Ullmark	Product of the system
2​	Filip Gustavsson	Product of the system
3​	Ilya Sorokin	Elite - not getting traded
4​	Jeremy Swayman	Young with elite potential, not getting moved
5​	Connor Hellebuyck	Elite - not getting traded
6​	Jake Oettinger	Elite - not getting traded
7​	Ilya Samsonov	Who saw this coming? (he's an RFA anyway)
8​	Alexandar Georgiev	Product of the system
9​	Juuse Saros	Elite - not getting traded
10​	Igor Shesterkin	Elite - not getting traded
11​	Andrei Vasilevskiy	Elite - not getting traded
12​	Logan Thompson	Product of the system
13​	Joonas Korpisalo	Not very good
14​	Stuart Skinner	Playing on a great team, is he actually good?
15​	Vitek Vanecek	Playing on a great team, is he actually good?
16​	Tristan Jarry	Product of the system
17​	Darcy Kuemper	Product of the system
18​	Marc-Andre Fleury	Product of the system
19​	Carter Hart	Young with elite potential, not getting moved
20​	Casey DeSmith	Not very good
21​	Pheonix Copley	Not very good
22​	Sam Montembeault	Not very good
23​	Sergei Bobrovsky	Terrible contract

Out of this list of guys I believe Jarry & Korpisalo are the only ones really available, and I really don't want either.

If they traded for Saros he would be getting the 50ish starts not Levi and at that point it definitely wouldn't make sense to have Levi up in the NHL for ~30 starts so you would be looking at Saros/Comrie in the NHL and Levi/Subban/Houser/UFA in Roch.


Be interesting to filter the charts so only games with Mattias are shown for each goalie.

I think stability was Comrie's biggest issue. He started 2-1, then the entire defense got hurt, then as we started getting healthy he got hurt, then he had to deal with limited practice because of the 3 goalie rotation, then he got hurt again, then Sammy got hurt again, then he finished 5-1-1.

So it was really a bunch of factors.

His numbers w/ and w/o Sammy are equally bad.

 

[Rowley Birkin]

@Jim Bob

I know you are regularly listening to ATW with Peters/Rivet. Vanek's position on the most recent episode is exactly the same as mine. He was cheerleading for Korpisalo. I'm a bit of a Korpisalo truther - but i think he will resign in LA.

That's the calibre of guy they need to target though. Better thsn Comrie, more experienced/proven than UPL. But not the type of guy who will take the lion's share of starts away from Levi as Saros undoubtedly would.

Trade UPL while he still has some upside & try to keep Comrie around as an organisational three.

 

[Jim Bob]

@Jim Bob

I know you are regularly listening to ATW with Peters/Rivet. Vanek's position on the most recent episode is exactly the same as mine. He was cheerleading for Korpisalo. I'm a bit of a Korpisalo truther - but i think he will resign in LA.

That's the calibre of guy they need to target though. Better thsn Comrie, more experienced/proven than UPL. But not the type of guy who will take the lion's share of starts away from Levi as Saros undoubtedly would.

Trade UPL while he still has some upside & try to keep Comrie around as an organisational three.

Korpisalo would be a huge risk. In his 8 NHL seasons as mostly a backup or 1B, he only has three seasons with a positive GSAA and only four seasons with a Save% above .900.

He’s UPL with more experience and a career year in a contract year.

If that’s the type of goalie they add, it’s a similar bet to the one they made with Comrie last year that didn’t pan out.

In that kind of vein, I wonder if they look at Quick as Anderson with the ability to play more?

He was horrible in LA and not bad in Vegas. I wouldn’t feel confident in him. But, I could see a path to them liking him as a vet to mentor Levi.

But again, they might have a hard time getting a UFA to sign here. Chad D said on their last podcast that they were after a different UFA goalie before signing Comrie and he didn’t want to play behind this team.

You could see a similar situation this summer if they rely on UFA to address the need in net.

 

[Rowley Birkin]

Korpisalo would be a huge risk. In his 8 NHL seasons as mostly a backup or 1B, he only has three seasons with a positive GSAA and only four seasons with a Save% above .900.

He’s UPL with more experience and a career year in a contract year.

If that’s the type of goalie they add, it’s a similar bet to the one they made with Comrie last year that didn’t pan out.

In that kind of vein, I wonder if they look at Quick as Anderson with the ability to play more?

He was horrible in LA and not bad in Vegas. I wouldn’t feel confident in him. But, I could sec a path to them liking him as a vet to mentor Levi.

But again, they might have a hard time getting a UFA to sign here. Chad D said on their last podcast that they were after a different UFA goalie before signing Comrie and he didn’t want to play behind this team.

You could see a similar situation this summer if they rely on UFA to address the need in net.

Again - don't focus on exact names - just the situation / type of role.

Quick may be a good target but like you - I'd worry if he has enough left in the tank.

You might be right about UFAs - but i think most guys see this team as being on the up. We also have the advantage of having bundles of cap space - so could overpay someone short term.

I don't think this role necessarily needs to be filled via a UFA signing either - it's possible to trade for someone. I don't know who that would be though - other that it won't be a guy like Saros.

 

[Jim Bob]

Again - don't focus on exact names - just the situation / type of role.

Quick may be a good target but like you - I'd worry if he has enough left in the tank.

You might be right about UFAs - but i think most guys see this team as being on the up. We also have the advantage of having bundles of cap space - so could overpay someone short term.

I don't think this role necessarily needs to be filled via a UFA signing either - it's possible to trade for someone. I don't know who that would be though - other that it won't be a guy like Saros.

The issue isn't whether this team will be competitive when it comes to getting UFA goalies to sign. The issue is that this is such a bad team defensively and goalies do not want to sign short term deals to play behind a team that will make them look like Comrie did this season. That hurts their next contract big time.

The environment is why I have questions about a guy like say Varlamov. He is used to playing in one of the easiest goalie environments in the league. Going from the Islanders to the Sabres would be a very difficult transition.

I think Vejmelka or Stolarz (having played in Edmonton and Anaheim...) are two guys that do not have the long resume like Quick, but they have plenty of experience in unfriendly environments.

 

[Rowley Birkin]

The issue isn't whether this team will be competitive when it comes to getting UFA goalies to sign. The issue is that this is such a bad team defensively and goalies do not want to sign short term deals to play behind a team that will make them look like Comrie did this season. That hurts their next contract big time.

The environment is why I have questions about a guy like say Varlamov. He is used to playing in one of the easiest goalie environments in the league. Going from the Islanders to the Sabres would be a very difficult transition.

I think Vejmelka or Stolarz (having played in Edmonton and Anaheim...) are two guys that do not have the long resume like Quick, but they have plenty of experience in unfriendly environments.

I think you are over emphasising the importance of this issue.

Take Varlamov as an example. I think if you offered him considerably more AAV than NYI - along with the possibility of more playing time behind Levi compared to Sorokin - then you'd have a good chance of getting him.

 

[Old Navy Goat]

Someone like Varlamov at 34yo isn't realistically looking at a follow-on contract so would probably be happy with a better payday than the Isles can give him

 

[Chainshot]

Someone like Varlamov at 34yo isn't realistically looking at a follow-on contract so would probably be happy with a better payday than the Isles can give him

The point remains though that the Islanders are the poster child for stifling defensive play and that Varlie's results are not likely to be close to the same on a team that is giving up way more high danger chances. That's where looking at Vejmelka on a team that more frequently has similar breakdowns to the Sabres and gives up similar shot/chance regions that they've shown success stopping.

 

[Jim Bob]

I think you are over emphasising the importance of this issue.

Take Varlamov as an example. I think if you offered him considerably more AAV than NYI - along with the possibility of more playing time behind Levi compared to Sorokin - then you'd have a good chance of getting him.

I doubt you see Varlamov wanting to leave. Like Okposo who basically said it's Buffalo or nothing, I wouldn't be shocked if Varlamov is in a similar place. He loves the team, loves the structure, and loves being Sorokin's partner. I don't think the Sabres offer him enough on a 1 or 2 year deal to get him to leave.

Plus, Adams continues to stress the "guys that want to be here" angle. So, I doubt he gives any goalie an offer that is too good to refuse.

Part of why Comrie landed here was that he wanted to come here because of the wide open opportunity in net.

 

[Old Navy Goat]

I don't disagree, I was just commenting how someone like Varlamov isn't as worried about potential stats being hurt behind a sieve as much as a younger goalie would.

 

[Jim Bob]

I don't disagree, I was just commenting how someone like Varlamov isn't as worried about potential stats being hurt behind a sieve as much as a younger goalie would.

He's also made over $50M in his career. So, I don't know if Adams offers him a contract that gets him to leave a place that he knows and loves. And that is if he hits UFA. I won't be shocked if he re-signs before 7/1.

And it's not like the Isles have a great internal option. So, my guess is that Varlamov re-signs with the Isles for around $2M AAV. That saves the Isles $3M when it comes to their goalie cap year over year and Varly doesn't have to deal with moving to a new team.

 

[Rowley Birkin]

I doubt you see Varlamov wanting to leave. Like Okposo who basically said it's Buffalo or nothing, I wouldn't be shocked if Varlamov is in a similar place. He loves the team, loves the structure, and loves being Sorokin's partner. I don't think the Sabres offer him enough on a 1 or 2 year deal to get him to leave.

Plus, Adams continues to stress the "guys that want to be here" angle. So, I doubt he gives any goalie an offer that is too good to refuse.

Part of why Comrie landed here was that he wanted to come here because of the wide open opportunity in net.

That's understandable if true. But I'm sure there IS a fit out there - be it UFA or trade.

Adams just needs to make the move.

 

[TehDoak]

There are only 15 guys in the league that met that criteria this year, the bar seems pretty high.

Even if we expand it to 35 games and 0.900, there are only 23 guys. Here's my thoughts on each:

	Player	Thoughts
1​	Linus Ullmark	Product of the system
2​	Filip Gustavsson	Product of the system
3​	Ilya Sorokin	Elite - not getting traded
4​	Jeremy Swayman	Young with elite potential, not getting moved
5​	Connor Hellebuyck	Elite - not getting traded
6​	Jake Oettinger	Elite - not getting traded
7​	Ilya Samsonov	Who saw this coming? (he's an RFA anyway)
8​	Alexandar Georgiev	Product of the system
9​	Juuse Saros	Elite - not getting traded
10​	Igor Shesterkin	Elite - not getting traded
11​	Andrei Vasilevskiy	Elite - not getting traded
12​	Logan Thompson	Product of the system
13​	Joonas Korpisalo	Not very good
14​	Stuart Skinner	Playing on a great team, is he actually good?
15​	Vitek Vanecek	Playing on a great team, is he actually good?
16​	Tristan Jarry	Product of the system
17​	Darcy Kuemper	Product of the system
18​	Marc-Andre Fleury	Product of the system
19​	Carter Hart	Young with elite potential, not getting moved
20​	Casey DeSmith	Not very good
21​	Pheonix Copley	Not very good
22​	Sam Montembeault	Not very good
23​	Sergei Bobrovsky	Terrible contract

Out of this list of guys I believe Jarry & Korpisalo are the only ones really available, and I really don't want either.



I think stability was Comrie's biggest issue. He started 2-1, then the entire defense got hurt, then as we started getting healthy he got hurt, then he had to deal with limited practice because of the 3 goalie rotation, then he got hurt again, then Sammy got hurt again, then he finished 5-1-1.

So it was really a bunch of factors.

His numbers w/ and w/o Sammy are equally bad.

Why wouldn't the Bruins move on from Swayman?

Bussi just had a solid AHL season.

The Bruins have 10M in cap space to sign Swayman and 6 forwards. Ullmark has a full NMC.

The market for him is probably a late 1st. They've gutted all their draft capital. Lots of teams out west (Chicago and San Jose) need a goalie and have extra late 1st rounders.

As much as I'd like to see Buffalo get him, Boston probably doesn't want him in the division. An offersheet is a fine alternative, however. My guess is he's moved at the draft along with a cap dump (Reilly) for a late 1st.

 

[Jim Bob]

Why wouldn't the Bruins move on from Swayman?

Bussi just had a solid AHL season.

The Bruins have 10M in cap space to sign Swayman and 6 forwards. Ullmark has a full NMC.

The market for him is probably a late 1st. They've gutted all their draft capital. Lots of teams out west (Chicago and San Jose) need a goalie and have extra late 1st rounders.

As much as I'd like to see Buffalo get him, Boston probably doesn't want him in the division. An offersheet is a fine alternative, however. My guess is he's moved at the draft along with a cap dump (Reilly) for a late 1st.

Swayman is a less than ideal fit for me as he is not a veteran mentor type and he’s coming from a really goalie friendly environment.

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

Again - don't focus on exact names - just the situation / type of role.

Quick may be a good target but like you - I'd worry if he has enough left in the tank.

You might be right about UFAs - but i think most guys see this team as being on the up. We also have the advantage of having bundles of cap space - so could overpay someone short term.

I don't think this role necessarily needs to be filled via a UFA signing either - it's possible to trade for someone. I don't know who that would be though - other that it won't be a guy like Saros.

The pool is very small. You must focus on the names.

 

[TehDoak]

Swayman is a less than ideal fit for me as he is not a veteran mentor type and he’s coming from a really goalie friendly environment.

I am pretty sure there are plenty of ex goalies who you can pay for that role as an assistant coach/advisor.

 

[Jacob582]

Some goalie thoughts:

1. Wasn't it out there that Demko would welcome a trade? Vancouver looking for cap space also.

2. I like the idea of UPL and some other stuff for Vejmelka.

3. I feel the most likely scenario (until Adams proves to me he will be more agressive) is that they enter training camp with the three goaltenders and will let the chips fall where they may.

4. Quick is a no for me.

 

[Jim Bob]

I am pretty sure there are plenty of ex goalies who you can pay for that role as an assistant coach/advisor.

There is a distinct difference between a coach that can only talk about stuff and a mentor/partner that you watch prepare and you can bounce stuff off of as you can relate to them as going through the same things and playing behind the same defense.

Seeing things from the press box is very different from seeing them from the crease.

Some goalie thoughts:

1. Wasn't it out there that Demko would welcome a trade? Vancouver looking for cap space also.

2. I like the idea of UPL and some other stuff for Vejmelka.

3. I feel the most likely scenario (until Adams proves to me he will be more agressive) is that they enter training camp with the three goaltenders and will let the chips fall where they may.

Demko said that was bogus and that he doesn't want to go anywhere.

And given how good he looked coming back from his injury, I would be really surprised if Vancouver moves on from Demko this off season as they do not have a top goalie prospect behind him and Vancouver is a team that tends to avoid the type of rebuild that trading Demko would be a piece of.

 

[Jim Bob]

 

[Jacob582]

Demko said that was bogus and that he doesn't want to go anywhere.

And given how good he looked coming back from his injury, I would be really surprised if Vancouver moves on from Demko this off season as they do not have a top goalie prospect behind him and Vancouver is a team that tends to avoid the type of rebuild that trading Demko would be a piece of.

Most players are going to deny rumors before they are traded. How long was it until Eichel publicly acknowledged that he wanted to be traded?

I agree with you that Vancouver will keep him

 

[Jim Bob]

Most players are going to deny rumors before they are traded. How long was it until Eichel publicly acknowledged that he wanted to be traded?

I agree with you that Vancouver will keep him

Given his strong relationship with Ian Clark, I believe that Demko wants to stay in Vancouver.