Player Discussion All Purpose Goaltending Thread

[Ace]

I don’t understand why having Levi means UPL can’t be on the Sabres. The kid isn’t starting 82 games.

Really? Rookie having rookie struggles and his backup is a guy who has none of his own shit figured out? And our season dies again because the guy they have to rely on is a guy they wouldn’t play in meaningful games? You don’t understand the need for a steady veteran?

UPL is a nothing player?


UPL is one of the main reasons we got back into the playoff race after the 8gm losing streak. We were 26-20-4 at the all star break. We went 19-9-4 from the end of the losing streak up to get there. UPL was in net for 13 of those 19 wins.

December he was 6-2-0 with .908sv%
January he was 6-2-1 with .907sv%

Those two months got us back into the mix.


Then UPL struggled, like a lot of players, after that 10 day break around the ALL Star game. He never really found his game again until his last start. But couldn’t build on it because Levi got here and he didn’t play again.

He‘s a rookie goalie so it’s not that shocking he would have ups and downs throughout the season. But when we needed the boost most he bailed us out.

It would be terrible asset management to just get rid of UPL for whatever.

Praying another GM thinks this way

 

[Chainshot]

Marek seems to be trying to broker a UPL trade on his show/pod this past week, mentioning UPL to either a reunion with Botterill in Seattle or that Ottawa is hunting for another tender (which Friedman made the comment that intra-divisional rivalry would make that unlikely).

 

[Push Dr Tracksuit]

Marek seems to be trying to broker a UPL trade on his show/pod this past week, mentioning UPL to either a reunion with Botterill in Seattle or that Ottawa is hunting for another tender (which Friedman made the comment that intra-divisional rivalry would make that unlikely).

didnt seem to bother ottawa last off season

 

[TehDoak]

UPL is a nothing player?


UPL is one of the main reasons we got back into the playoff race after the 8gm losing streak. We were 26-20-4 at the all star break. We went 19-9-4 from the end of the losing streak up to get there. UPL was in net for 13 of those 19 wins.

December he was 6-2-0 with .908sv%
January he was 6-2-1 with .907sv%

Those two months got us back into the mix.


Then UPL struggled, like a lot of players, after that 10 day break around the ALL Star game. He never really found his game again until his last start. But couldn’t build on it because Levi got here and he didn’t play again.

He‘s a rookie goalie so it’s not that shocking he would have ups and downs throughout the season. But when we needed the boost most he bailed us out.

It would be terrible asset management to just get rid of UPL for whatever.

My guess is UPL has/will request a trade given the way the red carpet was rolled out for Levi and he couldn't get a start in even once the season was over. If I am not mistaken, he can be sent to the AHL without waivers since he is below the games played requirement.

A quick thought would be UPL + for Vladar. Not sure what the depth chart behind Wolf looks like, given the cap situation there I imagine they will go Markstrom/Wolf next year. UPL could give them a developmental goalie they can groom to tandem with Wolf should Markstrom rebuild his value next year.

 

[Chainshot]

didnt seem to bother ottawa last off season

I think it was more that both Marek and Friedman think Ottawa and Buffalo are both about to make things very difficult on the rest of the division and are in direct competition with one another.

 

[Push Dr Tracksuit]

Funny listening to Marek talk about UPL and some of his guests saying he's well regarded. I suppose our views may not match that of others.

if GMs have embraced the idea that goalies dont hit their stride until mid 20's that UPL is still very much a targetable asset

he's big, he has his games, theres a goalie shortage league wide

if his stats mattered upl would never have made it to rochester

 

[Chainshot]

if GMs have embraced the idea that goalies dont hit their stride until mid 20's that UPL is still very much a targetable asset

he's big, he has his games, theres a goalie shortage league wide

if his stats mattered upl would never have made it to rochester

Yeah and I think there is the lack of daily scrutiny, some distance, and that Luu won Rookie of the Month for January that gives them a perspective that we don't have. Marek came back to Luukkonen's OHL MVP win in mentioning Botterill might want his old draftee back.

 

[Push Dr Tracksuit]

Yeah and I think there is the lack of daily scrutiny, some distance, and that Luu won Rookie of the Month for January that gives them a perspective that we don't have. Marek came back to Luukkonen's OHL MVP win in mentioning Botterill might want his old draftee back.

I never watched UPL prior to last season tbh but he looks to me, in my daily scrutiny, like a goalie that had double hip surgeries, and id be giddy at the prospect of him saddling down the sens

 

[joshjull]

Yeah and I think there is the lack of daily scrutiny, some distance, and that Luu won Rookie of the Month for January that gives them a perspective that we don't have. Marek came back to Luukkonen's OHL MVP win in mentioning Botterill might want his old draftee back.

I‘d argue we also have a lot of ax grinding, an unforgiving nature and a what have you done lately mentality with our goalies. Add in shiny new toy syndrome with Levi And UPL gets dumped overboard by many fans.

UPL is largely why we got back in the mix for the playoffs with over two months good play. In Dec/Jan (Went 12-4-1 with .907sv%). But struggled after the 10 day break around the All star game as did many teammates. Finally seemed to find his game vs Philly in his last start. Then was sidelined by Levi.

Levi is an exciting for the future. But counting on him to start in the NHL based on 6gms with a 905 sv% seems nuts. UPL had 9gms with a .917sv% last year and the made rthe right choice to start him in AHL.

 

[Chainshot]

I never watched UPL prior to last season tbh but he looks to me, in my daily scrutiny, like a goalie that had double hip surgeries, and id be giddy at the prospect of him saddling down the sens

Yep, and since Buffalo's been down that road a few times, and it's taken a while for the previous ones to get back together.

I‘d argue we also have a lot of ax grinding, an unforgiving nature and a what have you done lately mentality with our goalies. Add in shiny new toy syndrome with Levi And UPL gets dumped overboard by many fans.

I would say we do that on more than just the goalies under a microscope - individual chances for and against, goals against, the head coach all get run over on a game by game basis. I've mentioned, the Granato thread is usually his press conference videos and then complaints after a lose. Every loss.

UPL is largely why we got back in the mix for the playoffs with over two months good play. In Dec/Jan (Went 12-4-1 with .907sv%). But struggled after the 10 day break around the All star game as did many teammates. Finally seemed to find his game vs Philly in his last start. Then was sidelined by Levi.

Levi is an exciting for the future. But counting on him based on 6gms with a 905 sv% seems nuts.

I'd like Levi to get to work out the kinks he has in his game (rebounds right now) and while he's a very cool, collected dude, the expectation and scrutiny of doing that in the NHL certainly has risk. I wish there was an easy answer that had less risks. At the end of the day, getting the team to pay more d-zone attention like they did in some of Levi's first games would go far to helping out whoever is in their net.

 

[joshjull]

Yep, and since Buffalo's been down that road a few times, and it's taken a while for the previous ones to get back together.

I would say we do that on more than just the goalies under a microscope - individual chances for and against, goals against, the head coach all get run over on a game by game basis. I've mentioned, the Granato thread is usually his press conference videos and then complaints after a lose. Every loss.

Its certainly not unique to our goalies.

I'd like Levi to get to work out the kinks he has in his game (rebounds right now) and while he's a very cool, collected dude, the expectation and scrutiny of doing that in the NHL certainly has risk. I wish there was an easy answer that had less risks. At the end of the day, getting the team to pay more d-zone attention like they did in some of Levi's first games would go far to helping out whoever is in their net.

I agree about the team defense. Especially landing another Sammy type top 4 dman.

I’m thinking also about the bigger picture/medium term in net. It’s a struggle to land a decent goalie these days. We are hardly alone in that. Stevie Y has tried via trade two offseason in a row and had it flame out both times.

It’s why I’m baffled by the flippant attitude from a few about tossing UPL overboard. I’m not looking to move on from a team controlled UPL (I think 3 more years of control) when there is nothing besides Levi in the mix.

I’m not sure the best path forward. As you said there is no easy answer. But I’m wondering if we see Levi getting the UPL treatment. Where he starts with Amerks but could force his way onto the NHL roster. It could create another 3 way goalie situation.

 

[Gras]

I never watched UPL prior to last season tbh but he looks to me, in my daily scrutiny, like a goalie that had double hip surgeries, and id be giddy at the prospect of him saddling down the sens

Ullmark also had double hip surgery and hes saddling down the Bruins just fine.

 

[Chainshot]

Ullmark also had double hip surgery and hes saddling down the Bruins just fine.

This year he's been Vezina caliber. Last year, there was some questions about his play. It wasn't as smooth of a year as he settled in and got used to how the Bruins play and also he took the coaching from Essensa.

 

[RefsIdeas]

UPL just seems like the odd man out. He will be waivers eligible next year so we can’t stash him in Rochester. I doubt we want to go the 3G route again, and having a tandem of Levi - UPL seems a little scary due to neither haven proven anything long-term at the NHL level.

UPL had his ups and downs, and it’s nothing really against him but he just doesn’t fit anywhere here. If we want to be serious about competing for the playoffs, the tandem should be Vet - Levi, imo.

 

[Irving Zisman]

Its certainly not unique to our goalies.


I agree about the team defense. Especially landing another Sammy type top 4 dman.

I’m thinking also about the bigger picture/medium term in net. It’s a struggle to land a decent goalie these days. We are hardly alone in that. Stevie Y has tried via trade two offseason in a row and had it flame out both times.

It’s why I’m baffled by the flippant attitude from a few about tossing UPL overboard. I’m not looking to move on from a team controlled UPL (I think 3 more years of control) when there is nothing besides Levi in the mix.

I’m not sure the best path forward. As you said there is no easy answer. But I’m wondering if we see Levi getting the UPL treatment. Where he starts with Amerks but could force his way onto the NHL roster. It could create another 3 way goalie situation.

Completely agree.

Too many posters here are assuming Levi will continue a perfectly linear and upward trajectory, and that Adams will have no problems finding an upgrade in net.

The Yzerman example is a good lesson. Goaltending in this league is just so uncertain right now, and a motivated, hungry UPL still has a ton of potential to round out his game. Not to mention the 3 years of team control you mentioned being key.

 

[Dingo44]

UPL just seems like the odd man out. He will be waivers eligible next year so we can’t stash him in Rochester. I doubt we want to go the 3G route again, and having a tandem of Levi - UPL seems a little scary due to neither haven proven anything long-term at the NHL level.

UPL had his ups and downs, and it’s nothing really against him but he just doesn’t fit anywhere here. If we want to be serious about competing for the playoffs, the tandem should be Vet - Levi, imo.

Levi mentioned in his end of year press conference he's not sure in which league they will have him start so they can have him start in Rochester and then run UPL/Comrie again. This board and a lot of fans will absolutely lose their mind though.

 

[Jim Bob]

Given how his tenure in Pittsburgh went and how the Buffalo tenders have seemed to be less than the sum of their parts, I am of the opinion it is time for Bales to go.

Does Condon want an NHL gig?

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

I'm ok with starting the season off with UPL/Comrie, with the idea that it's a constant competition to determine who stays and who gets traded. If it's close I lean toward trading Comrie. At that point whoever gets traded, Levi comes up for the remainder with about 30 starts in Rochester.

 

[5 Minute Major]

Levi mentioned in his end of year press conference he's not sure in which league they will have him start so they can have him start in Rochester and then run UPL/Comrie again. This board and a lot of fans will absolutely lose their mind though.

I’m raising my hand….I’ll be leading the losing their mind charge if our opening night goalies are UPL and Comrie.

 

[Chainshot]

When Comrie went down and they turned to 6K, it took him some starts to get settled, then he went on a nice run of keeping them in games. Then he struggled later in the year but this is the guy who the team leadership like Anderson and Okposo said they should keep up to give them a better chance at winning. I still think some of that was Anderson knowing he couldn't fulfill that role but the team put faith in him and he delivered with a Rookie of the Month for January. He still needs to work on his game, clearly, and not playing for weeks at the end of the season doesn't help that. I'm curious if the team still has that level of faith in his abilities or not.

 

[Irie]

When Comrie went down and they turned to 6K, it took him some starts to get settled, then he went on a nice run of keeping them in games. Then he struggled later in the year but this is the guy who the team leadership like Anderson and Okposo said they should keep up to give them a better chance at winning. I still think some of that was Anderson knowing he couldn't fulfill that role but the team put faith in him and he delivered with a Rookie of the Month for January. He still needs to work on his game, clearly, and not playing for weeks at the end of the season doesn't help that. I'm curious if the team still has that level of faith in his abilities or not.

I feel like different goalies got very different defensive efforts from the team.

There were games were Comrie faced 6 or 7 breakaways (some 2 on 0) in the first two periods alone. You could feel his frustration and exasperation, and eventually he lost focus and gave up a softie or two. Everyone focused on the soft third period goal and formed their opinion on the goalie based on that without evaluating the context. Most goalies in this league tend to give up bad goals when they are frustrated.

When UPL came up, the team seemed to dig in and step up their defensive effort for a stretch, but they eventually loosened up in front of him as well.

Levi's first few games were some of the tightest checking games the Sabres played all year. There were half periods where the team got chasing the puck that was ugly, and we got to see Levi really shine, but they recovered and played much more disciplined shortly after.

I do not think that was a coincidence. The team takes note of who is in net and shelters the younger goalies more.

If Granato can convince the entire team to buy into that defensive effort for 60 minutes, Comrie and UPL might put up pretty solid numbers. We saw a few games this year where the team limited the extremely high danger chances and both played pretty stellar.

 

[joshjull]

 

[TehDoak]

So, in looking at this objectively, a few thoughts:

UPL is entering his 5th season. He is waiver exempt for 29 more games (per capfriendly). This does make him not getting any starts late in the season. He's also on a one way deal next year, meaning he makes 925k either way.

Comrie would have to pass thru waivers. They can buy him out for 1.2M spread over 2 years (600k a year). I'm not seeing him getting claimed unless another team runs into injury issues.

Regardless of what you want to do with Levi, I don't think anyone wants to see him start 50 games next year. That means, you need someone to eat most of the starts.

Who will do that?

Comrie? No
UPL? No.

So, that puts us in the position we need to add an outside goalie. UFA, trade, etc. Doesn't matter how. We have to add a goalie.

The question is, who is the odd goalie out.

IF we are talking in terms of disposability, Comrie is the obvious answer. He's probably never going to be a starter in this league. He's, at best, an average backup. On a good defensive team, he will look good. On our team, as is? He's going to look bad.

UPL has upside. Will he ever achieve it? That is another question. There will likely be a team interested in taking him, especially since he can go to the minors for one more year. I've floated Calgary as a possibility with Wolf likely ascending to the big club next year. But...it's not like we are going to get a king's ransom at this point.

So, in terms of plans, there are two:

You go get a starting goalie. Two year term is probably the magic number here. Someone who is OK with potentially being in a split start situation, but also understands the team is about winning, so, the best goalie will get more starts.

This is where it diverges a bit. You move UPL, then I think the obvious plan is, at least to start the season:

Comrie as backup, Levi to the AHL. That isn't to say Levi won't get starts, he will. Injuries happen, he may just flat out earn a callup.

However, if you move out Comrie and get a vet starter, then I think there is at least a bit of intrigue what to do. You COULD simply make it an open competition for the 2nd goalie role. Just let UPL and Levi fight it out. I think you could put the thumb on the scale for UPL a bit, just to get Levi some extra starts in the AHL....but if Levi is a clear winner, UPL can go to Rochester with no risk of being claimed. And it likely wouldn't be the last we see of him either way.

The option of UPL/Levi fighting for the 2nd goalie slot is intriguing to me. It's a bit of a hedge on Levi. If he struggles adjusted to the pros, etc, we have another young goalie. I think it would also be very wise to get a veteran goalie coach in here ASAP. Someone to work with both of them, watch tape with them, etc.

What you absolutely cannot do is come to camp next year with Comrie/Levi/UPL and just hope for the best. It's a recipe for a disaster. We need some veteran stability to go with young upside. Cormie doesn't provide any stability as a regular starter.

 

[Jim Bob]

Oettinger in peak condition for Stars, playoffs thanks to unique regimen | NHL.com

Mobility coach's work with goalie, other clients has helped expand range, prevent injuries

www.nhl.com

 

[Rowley Birkin]

If Levi is being handed the starter role on a plate... I want NEITHER Comrie or UPL sharing the crease with him.

Ship both of those guys out & sign a proven vet such as Andersen or Varlamov on a high dollar / short term deal.