All-Purpose Final Fantasy Thread

[member 157595]

Mystic Quest was the first Final Fantasy 'game' I ever played...it's a wonder there ever was a second.

f*** that game. The music isn't bad but the game is absolutely insulting.

Certainly Japan has different ideals and skillsets than the rest of the world, but Nintendo wouldn't even give us the real SMB2 because of difficulty.

I mean, NoA is notoriously bad at marketing and understanding what the consumer wants, and that hasn't changed... Look no further than the MOTHER series. Such a great series has been horribly handled.

How many RPGs has the rest of the world missed out on? Half of the Final Fantasies, Seiken Densenstu 3/Secret of Mana 2, Mother 1 & 3, Live a Live, the list goes on and on.

I get that translations are time consuming and cost money, but look at some of the drivel we got in the 90s... Thankfully the world has the internet and the ability to access the previously inaccessible.

I understand that JRPG's very much were, and presumably still are, a niche market in North America.

However: the select few of us that DO play those games in the first place want the originals. We don't want "dumb down the difficulty for gaijin" versions.

EDIT: And another thing: when I was a kid, outside of RPG's the Japanese versions of games were sometimes easier than their NA counterparts (I think this was due to the popularity of the video game rental market in NA): Castlevania III v.s. Akumajou Densetsu 3, Bayou Billy v.s. Mad City, Streets of Rage 3 v.s. Bare Knuckle III, etc. Why the switch for RPG's? Were we not capable of critical thinking?

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Mother/Earthbound is super duper niche, don't conflate being popular online with moving a lot of units.

Part of the reason it was niche was because of it's braindead marketing campaign and it not being the stereotypical "badass" RPG that the likes of FF and the like have to offer. Smash Bros boosted it's popularity immensely and I'm sure that if Nintendo ever properly translated Mother 3 it would sell a lot.

 

[RandV]

Part of the reason it was niche was because of it's braindead marketing campaign and it not being the stereotypical "badass" RPG that the likes of FF and the like have to offer. Smash Bros boosted it's popularity immensely and I'm sure that if Nintendo ever properly translated Mother 3 it would sell a lot.

It would sell but anyone who's really interested in these games will have probably played the fan translation already.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

It would sell but anyone who's really interested in these games will have probably played the fan translation already.

Possibly but Earthbound still sold incredibly well when it was put on the Wii U eshop.

 

[Shareefruck]

Certainly Japan has different ideals and skillsets than the rest of the world, but Nintendo wouldn't even give us the real SMB2 because of difficulty.

I mean, NoA is notoriously bad at marketing and understanding what the consumer wants, and that hasn't changed... Look no further than the MOTHER series. Such a great series has been horribly handled.

How many RPGs has the rest of the world missed out on? Half of the Final Fantasies, Seiken Densenstu 3/Secret of Mana 2, Mother 1 & 3, Live a Live, the list goes on and on.

I get that translations are time consuming and cost money, but look at some of the drivel we got in the 90s... Thankfully the world has the internet and the ability to access the previously inaccessible.

I absolutely agree from an entirely self-interested "give me the good ****!" point of view, but I don't think that's evidence of Nintendo misjudging the actual market for all of the things that we missed out on.

As much as I love it, Super Mario Bros 2. probably would have gotten at best a mixed reaction in America as a standalone release and follow-up to Super Mario Bros. Re-skinning Doki Doki Panic was probably the right move, and hell, it's a great game as well.

 

[Shareefruck]

**** that game. The music isn't bad but the game is absolutely insulting.



I understand that JRPG's very much were, and presumably still are, a niche market in North America.

However: the select few of us that DO play those games in the first place want the originals. We don't want "dumb down the difficulty for gaijin" versions.

EDIT: And another thing: when I was a kid, outside of RPG's the Japanese versions of games were sometimes easier than their NA counterparts (I think this was due to the popularity of the video game rental market in NA): Castlevania III v.s. Akumajou Densetsu 3, Bayou Billy v.s. Mad City, Streets of Rage 3 v.s. Bare Knuckle III, etc. Why the switch for RPG's? Were we not capable of critical thinking?

As much as it sucks, you can't expect a business to risk their investment in order to cater to the select few, though.

 

[Shareefruck]

Mother 3 is the exception that doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. It would sell, they wouldn't have to spend much in order to do it, there isn't that much of an accessibility barrier, it's in high demand, is already a recognizable part of your brand, and it would be just about the easiest thing to take advantage of.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Mother 3 is the exception that doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. It would sell, they wouldn't have to spend much in order to do it, there isn't that much of an accessibility barrier, it's in high demand, is already a recognizable part of your brand, and it would be just about the easiest thing to take advantage of.

It's mind-numbing that they haven't done it, especially with the Switch selling like hotcakes. Never thought I'd see the day when FFVII is on a Nintendo platform before Mother 3 was translated.

I absolutely agree from an entirely self-interested "give me the good ****!" point of view, but I don't think that's evidence of Nintendo misjudging the actual market for all of the things that we missed out on.

As much as I love it, Super Mario Bros 2. probably would have gotten at best a mixed reaction in America as a standalone release and follow-up to Super Mario Bros. Re-skinning Doki Doki Panic was probably the right move, and hell, it's a great game as well.

I got no issues with DDP, but it feels sometimes like Nintendo tells us what we should like and what we shouldn't. There's a market for practically everything nowadays and given FFVII's smash success it really begs the question, "Why did they only bring over half the series?"

At the very least some of the classics we missed in the 90s should be getting official translations. I'd be all over that Seiken Densentsu collection.

 

[Shareefruck]

It's mind-numbing that they haven't done it, especially with the Switch selling like hotcakes. Never thought I'd see the day when FFVII is on a Nintendo platform before Mother 3 was translated.


I got no issues with DDP, but it feels sometimes like Nintendo tells us what we should like and what we shouldn't. There's a market for practically everything nowadays and given FFVII's smash success it really begs the question, "Why did they only bring over half the series?"

At the very least some of the classics we missed in the 90s should be getting official translations. I'd be all over that Seiken Densentsu collection.

I agree with the personal desire, but I'm not sure I agree with the hindsight, entitlement, idea that most of these things would sell, that there's always a market to justify it, or that other companies would do it any differently.

 

[No Fun Shogun]

Earthbound to me was a game that got released at the wrong time. I was using RPGs as my open world fix until the proliferation of open world games started, so it felt way too confined to me and I didn't get into it when it was released.

Years after the fact and playing it again, it was an absolute gem that I adore and probably have it with Chrono Trigger, FFVI, and LttP on my SNES Mount Rushmore. I'd love to give Mother 3 a shot, but the lack of sales in the West appears to make them not remotely willing to invest funds in translating the game.

 

[Shareefruck]

Earthbound to me was a game that got released at the wrong time. I was using RPGs as my open world fix until the proliferation of open world games started, so it felt way too confined to me and I didn't get into it when it was released.

Years after the fact and playing it again, it was an absolute gem that I adore and probably have it with Chrono Trigger, FFVI, and LttP on my SNES Mount Rushmore. I'd love to give Mother 3 a shot, but the lack of sales in the West appears to make them not remotely willing to invest funds in translating the game.

That sounds more like a case of you playing it at the wrong time rather than it being released at the wrong time, doesn't it?

 

[No Fun Shogun]

Yeah, at the wrong time for me, obviously.

 

[member 157595]

As much as it sucks, you can't expect a business to risk their investment in order to cater to the select few, though.

Of course not, but I do not believe that making a (EDIT: RPG) easier necessarily guarantees increased financial success outside its originally intended market.

 

[RandV]

I absolutely agree from an entirely self-interested "give me the good ****!" point of view, but I don't think that's evidence of Nintendo misjudging the actual market for all of the things that we missed out on.

As much as I love it, Super Mario Bros 2. probably would have gotten at best a mixed reaction in America as a standalone release and follow-up to Super Mario Bros. Re-skinning Doki Doki Panic was probably the right move, and hell, it's a great game as well.

I stumbled upon this youtube video a few weeks ago, if anyone has 20 minutes to kill and want to get the full story on Super Mario Bros 2/Doki Doki Panic.



For the part about releasing it here or not basically in the 80's there was one guy working in the Nintendo warehouse (Howard Phillips) who'd enthusiastically play the games as they came in, so the NoA President at the time (a Japanese guy I think?) made him their go to guy on what to release in NA. When Mario Bros 2 unexpectedly came in he fired it up... and quickly died on the first poison mushroom. As he continued to play and the game continued to murder him he told the boss 'this isn't fun, this is punishment', and that was that. The console market crash (Atari) was still very recent over here so they didn't want to risk upsetting the market.

As you suggest though and the video kind of concludes it probably was for the best. And while the similarities are obvious I don't know if it's really the same process that kept so many JRPG's out of North America through the 16-bit era?

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Part of the reason it was niche was because of it's braindead marketing campaign and it not being the stereotypical "badass" RPG that the likes of FF and the like have to offer. Smash Bros boosted it's popularity immensely and I'm sure that if Nintendo ever properly translated Mother 3 it would sell a lot.

I disagree and Nintendo disagrees or else they would have released it.

I don't think the market for JRPGs is very large outside of Japan, I'd bet Nintendo decided that they wanted Mario & Luigi to be their quirky JRPG franchise. No point in having M&L and Mother go head-to-head.

 

[member 157595]

Yeah, 1986 was not the right time to release SMB2 in NA. That game is brutally difficult.

Super Doki Mario Panic 2 is not an easy game by any means but SMB2 will make you want to throw your controller through the TV.

 

[Shareefruck]

I ****ing love the Japanese SMB2. The balls it takes to make that your follow-up to a world-wide phenomenon. It's like a perfectly designed, mechanically interesting and challenging troll-game where you're constantly in a dialogue with the designer, who's messing with you the whole way through. Sounds ridiculous, but it almost has this inspired deconstructionist avant garde feel to it.

It's my favorite Mario universe game after SMW and SMB3.

Of course not, but I do not believe that making a (EDIT: RPG) easier necessarily guarantees increased financial success outside its originally intended market.

I agree that it doesn't guarantee it, but I think it's very reasonable to argue that it does make the idea at least feasible, whereas having a really hard game could possibly make that very unlikely or impossible.

I doubt Final Fantasy VII would have been remotely close to being as huge as it was if it were as difficult and unforgiving as the original Final Fantasy IV, for example.

I think the only reason they would have to bring over those games is to gain modest return or break even trying to please the niche audience, and possibly improve their critical reputation. I can understand if they don't think that's strong enough risk/return to justify it.

 

[member 157595]

I kind of feel like Kaizo Mario and its variants are spiritual successors to SMB2.

The first time I found a backwards warp zone I wanted to find the developers and punch them all in the dick.

 

[Unholy]

Tactics A2 and FF IV on DS saved me from many 12 hour graveyard shifts. Love IV so much and put soo many hours into A2.

Would love another one.

 

[Shareefruck]

I kind of feel like Kaizo Mario and its variants are spiritual successors to SMB2.

The first time I found a backwards warp zone I wanted to find the developers and punch them all in the dick.

Yes, but I don't think they're nearly as professionally well designed/polished or rewarding.

 

[member 157595]

Yes, but I don't think they're nearly as professionally well designed/polished or rewarding.

They definitely aren't. I wouldn't call them rewarding in the least, they're all a colossal waste of time as far as I'm concerned.

 

[RandV]

EDIT: And another thing: when I was a kid, outside of RPG's the Japanese versions of games were sometimes easier than their NA counterparts (I think this was due to the popularity of the video game rental market in NA): Castlevania III v.s. Akumajou Densetsu 3, Bayou Billy v.s. Mad City, Streets of Rage 3 v.s. Bare Knuckle III, etc. Why the switch for RPG's? Were we not capable of critical thinking?

I believe the 'difficulty' adjustment for JRPG's back then was simply lowering the random encounter rates and increasing experience gains to accommodate. Not really a matter of critical thinking, and either way even the Japanese market moved in the direction they were feeding us as the genre evolved.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

I disagree and Nintendo disagrees or else they would have released it.

I don't think the market for JRPGs is very large outside of Japan, I'd bet Nintendo decided that they wanted Mario & Luigi to be their quirky JRPG franchise. No point in having M&L and Mother go head-to-head.

And yet FFVII is one of the most popular games of all time. And people are getting tired of M&L. I don’t really believe it’s up to a bunch of out of touch adults to decide what their fan base wants, especially given Nintendo’s struggles to integrate themselves into the new millennium.

 

[sabresfan129103]

Finally broke down and bought FF XV on Steam for $25 bucks. I love it, although the story is a bit confusing.

 

[member 157595]

Just caught myself inadvertently humming the Chocobo theme at work. Really loudly.

A co-worker just asked "Are you OK"? The answer is NO.