Confirmed with Link: All-Purpose "Days of Our Meruelo" Talk

[Jormungandr]

There was no one to sell to locally.

I’m not entirely sure that’s true. I believe one of the reasons Meruello refused to sell locally was to secure that 5 year “right to refuse” clause. You can’t sell locally and then re-activate your dormant franchise in the same city. Not in Phoenix at least.

 

[RemoAZ]

I’m not entirely sure that’s true. I believe one of the reasons Meruello refused to sell locally was to secure that 5 year “right to refuse” clause. You can’t sell locally and then re-activate your dormant franchise in the same city. Not in Phoenix at least.

Nope. Selling locally would have been for much less if they actually found anyone to buy it. Selling for relocation got him over double the value of the team. That's why I'm leaning towards believing this was an orchestrated plan from the beginning. Always follow the money.

 

[Jormungandr]

Nope. Selling locally would have been for much less if they actually found anyone to buy it. Selling for relocation got him over double the value of the team. That's why I'm leaning towards believing this was an orchestrated plan from the beginning. Always follow the money.

Why fight so hard for the right to refusal clause as you’re walking out the door with your double the value sell?

 

[archangel2]

I’m not entirely sure that’s true. I believe one of the reasons Meruello refused to sell locally was to secure that 5 year “right to refuse” clause. You can’t sell locally and then re-activate your dormant franchise in the same city. Not in Phoenix at least.

I think this is a big reason I am asking about the time frame for the build. Like many, when I saw that the team was saying the new arena would be ready in 3 years? I had a problem with that and I think the 5 year clause was always in play for what the plans are. The time frame did not make sense to me until last night when I saw the first indication of the 5 year thing. NO idea when that came into the discussion but I do no see the NHL allowing Arizona playing in their current arena for 5 years.

AS I said on the main board.. I am 100% sure at the meetings at the all star break something happened and ball started rolling into what has happened in the last 72 hours. Just happened too quick and too much is lined up already for it to be out of the blue.

Somebody somewhere was dealing from the bottom of the deck

 

[Edenjung]

Why fight so hard for the right to refusal clause as you’re walking out the door with your double the value sell?

Because it makes him look a tiny bit better.
This is done so both the league and he can say "Well we try to have an expansion down the line, so just you wait it will be fine". But in the end its just a PR thing.
No way will he get it done what they want from him (i doubt its just "have an arena ready on the 17th of april in 5 years" there will be more they want).
This is all smoke to make it seem like there is hope. But there isn't.
My guess is that this is the end for NHL hockey in AZ for a long time. Maybe ever.

 

[DustyDangler]

Maybe slightly semantical but imho, the Coyotes were not sold for double the value. What they were sold for was the actual value of the franchise. Those that valued it at significantly less (Forbes) were wrong in their valuation.

 

[RemoAZ]

Why fight so hard for the right to refusal clause as you’re walking out the door with your double the value sell?

Imo that's all PR bs. The NHL gets to justify the move after denying it to the other owners and buyers that wanted to move the team. Betman also gets to save face for his stance over the last couple decades that they didn't want to move the team. Meruelo looks like less of a villain until he collects his money and gets the hell out of town.

 

[DustyDangler]

Because it makes him look a tiny bit better.
This is done so both the league and he can say "Well we try to have an expansion down the line, so just you wait it will be fine". But in the end its just a PR thing.
No way will he get it done what they want from him (i doubt its just "have an arena ready on the 17th of april in 5 years" there will be more they want).
This is all smoke to make it seem like there is hope. But there isn't.
My guess is that this is the end for NHL hockey in AZ for a long time. Maybe ever.

For the sake of argument, let's say he is still in on his entertainment district. That entertainment district has a massive dollar figure attached to it. Meruelo now has a significant chunk of cash to invest in the project.

 

[Jormungandr]

I think this is a big reason I am asking about the time frame for the build. Like many, when I saw that the team was saying the new arena would be ready in 3 years? I had a problem with that and I think the 5 year clause was always in play for what the plans are. The time frame did not make sense to me until last night when I saw the first indication of the 5 year thing. NO idea when that came into the discussion but I do no see the NHL allowing Arizona playing in their current arena for 5 years.

AS I said on the main board.. I am 100% sure at the meetings at the all star break something happened and ball started rolling into what has happened in the last 72 hours. Just happened too quick and too much is lined up already for it to be out of the blue.

Somebody somewhere was dealing from the bottom of the deck

The build, I assume you’re talking about the arena construction, was supposed to be completed by fall of 2027. So in time for the 2027-28 season. Which means 3 full seasons at the Mullett after this current one. But apparently there was a lot of push back from the players association about playing at Mullett arena. Reportedly some were even saying that it felt like they “weren’t in the NHL”. (Guess what? You’re going to feel the same at the Delta Center as well).

I suspect the league pushed Meruelo hard to sell to smith for relocation. Meruelo, played hard ball because his goal the entire time was the entertainment district with a sportsbook. Which he gets as owner of a professional sports team in Arizona. The compromise? The 5 year right to refuse clause. Meruelo builds his arena and ED in the same 3 year time frame(arena at least), exercises the clause and reactivates his dormant Coyotes franchise.

This is all just a random thought. Not one I completely believe myself, but a plausible one none the less.

For the sake of argument, let's say he is still in on his entertainment district. That entertainment district has a massive dollar figure attached to it. Meruelo now has a significant chunk of cash to invest in the project.

Word is, Alex has to return that 1 billion to buy back the franchise though.

 

[DustyDangler]

Word is, Alex has to return that 1 billion to buy back the franchise though.

Oooof, if true.

 

[Edenjung]

@DustyDangler
Which he would have to give back to the league if he wants the expansion team.
No way that happens. If he builds that district, he will most likely scrap the arena or scale it down for something else but build the rest of the district.

And Ishbia would never want to get together with AM to build the arena and become a tennant. That guy knows he can make more money if he owns the place. So there are two options in my mind. Far fetched ones. AM builds but rescales the whole thing to make money otherwise and uses the money for that. Thats option 1 for me.

option 2: Ishbia somehow drinks way too much and out of that decides against his better judgement to work togehter with AM to build that district. Both become partners and all is well.

But option 2 sounds like westgate doesn't it? Did that work out? Nope.

I doubt that AM will pursue the auction after the sale. He gets his money and thats it.
Why build the district if you don't have a franchise? He might loose his sportsbook (i don't have any clue about the rules for that but i know that you need a sports team). How is he making the money to pay the league after he uses the 1b to finance part of the district?
This all sounds so unlikely that i feel like we should abandon the idea of an expansion team in 5 years and be done with it.

 

[lanky]

Regardless of any conditions Meruelo is getting put in the sale contract, there's no way the league is ever letting him back into the club.

 

[DustyDangler]

@DustyDangler
Which he would have to give back to the league if he wants the expansion team.
No way that happens. If he builds that district, he will most likely scrap the arena or scale it down for something else but build the rest of the district.

And Ishbia would never want to get together with AM to build the arena and become a tennant. That guy knows he can make more money if he owns the place. So there are two options in my mind. Far fetched ones. AM builds but rescales the whole thing to make money otherwise and uses the money for that. Thats option 1 for me.

option 2: Ishbia somehow drinks way too much and out of that decides against his better judgement to work togehter with AM to build that district. Both become partners and all is well.

But option 2 sounds like westgate doesn't it? Did that work out? Nope.

Like everything, the devil is in the details. I had heard the franchise would be inactivated but able to be activated once stipulations were met. My thought on this, was it would be to avoid the large expansion fee and have a lesser activation fee. If there will be a $1b reactivation fee, then we are back to where is AM going to get the ~$3b for his district.

 

[Edenjung]

@lanky
And also this. Why would the NHL make the same mistake twice.
They know that they now are rid of him and that its unlikely that he will succeed in time.
And i guess they will have included a loophole for them to reject him even if he makes it.
Of course for that he must win the bid. And i guess the state has now looked at this and might
cancel it all.
@DustyDangler

Exactly. This all comes down to money. And i doubt that there will be many people lending AM money to build the district with him not owning a team and the infos on the shitshow that will come out soon.
The league knows this and thus are sure that nothing will make them have him get an expansion team.

 

[Jormungandr]

Regardless of any conditions Meruelo is getting put in the sale contract, there's no way the league is ever letting him back into the club.

Agreed. And if he does what it sure as shit sounds like he’s about to do to the Coyotes, I wouldn’t support a team he owned anyway.

 

[Jormungandr]

@lanky
And also this. Why would the NHL make the same mistake twice.
They know that they now are rid of him and that its unlikely that he will succeed in time.
And i guess they will have included a loophole for them to reject him even if he makes it.
Of course for that he must win the bid. And i guess the state has now looked at this and might cancel it all.

I’m not sure the NHL can deny him back into the league IF the whole “suspended franchise”, or whatever you want to call it, is a thing that is part of the sell. If the sell goes through and Ryan Smith is really just buying up the contracts, while the Coyotes branding and history stays with Meruelo while his franchise is considered dormant, wouldn’t he technically still be considered an owner? I don’t think you can block him on the basis of him being an asshole. What really irks me in all of this is our identity will be owned by Alex f***ing Meruelo after the sale goes through.

 

[Edenjung]

@Jormungandr
Oh the NHl will have clauses in place that make it almost impossible for him to achieve what they want him to do to gain an expansion team.
And i guess the dormant team would only be his for 5 years (the deadline that has been flying around) and afterwards they get it back and he keeps the 1b.

I know two things about the NHL: 1) They will do anything to make money; 2) If they don't like an owner they will do everything to remove them. Thats how the NHL was born.
Thats why you can call it the "No hockey for Livingstone" league.

 

[RandR]

I'll believe it when I see it

I am also skeptical, but Meruelo still can explore plans for his entertainment district in the 2 months before the land auction as he will certainly now have the cash to satisfy the multiple financing requirements (even if he has to pay the 1 billion back years from now if he gets the expansion team).

If that it not in the cards, then those rights still have value, because Meruelo can try to sell them for the next few years if he can find somebody else willing to give it a go.

At minimum it is also a PR exercise that makes both Meruelo and the league look like neither is giving up on having a team there, and thus look less like villains.

 

[Edenjung]

@RandR
I doubt he is allowed to sell them to anybody else than the NHL themselves for a huge discount.

 

[Jormungandr]

I doubt he can sell the rights period. He either pays the billion for the team within 5 years, or the NHL revokes the right. There’s no way the NHL allows him to make money off the team a second time.

Plus, remember, the NHL is very particular with who they let own their franchises. They’re not gonna let Alex Meruelo choose a highest bidder.

 

[Edenjung]

Just saw this and it made me laugh:



And its still up on wikipedia

Alex Meruelo - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[RandR]

@RandR
I doubt he is allowed to sell them to anybody else than the NHL themselves for a huge discount.

Possibly. Either way, if a white knight can be found then anything can be negotiated, especially if the NHL can resurrect a team there without having to deal any further with Meruelo after that those rights are sold.

Edit: I believe the reports that some of the NHL owners are unhappy with what the league is paying out to this guy (and I don’t blame them) but money talks and getting back at least $1 billion as a future expansion fee would soften the blow of him even making more money off this whole scene.

 

[NYRFAN218]

Really sorry about everything that's going on. I'm hopeful that down the line Arizona/Phoenix gets their team back and I'm a legitimate believer in that happening (and hopefully without Meruelo in the fold). I don't think people from the outside really understand what a bad product, dysfunctional ownership, and no reason to care will do to a fanbase. With NYR, Toronto, and Montreal maybe being the only exceptions, every single market struggles at the gate when the team is in a downturn. I remember back in 2006 when the Bruins were drawing 13K people and in Chicago where home games weren't shown on TV, building was half full on a lot of nights, and no one in Chicago cared about the Blackhawks. For people to dump on a fanbase after everything that's occurred during the franchise's history is ridiculous to me especially when the NHL has proven that teams can be successful in southern markets with the right ownership and good management (Tampa and Nashville.)

I understand if a lot of you guys are done no matter what happens after this. I haven't been through that feeling and I could only imagine how brutal it is but I do believe the NHL will be back in Arizona and it's a matter of when not if. Hopefully with a brand new arena, good ownership, and competent management. It's what you guys deserve.

Word is, Alex has to return that 1 billion to buy back the franchise though.

Seattle went for $650 million. With inflation and the strong number of markets looking to get into the league, this doesn't surprise me. Hell, I could see the next round of expansion being higher than $1 billion.

 

[Chaos2k7]

Keep your heads up AZ fans, you all deserve better.

As a Panthers fan I know the challenges you all faced, and this outcome isn't fair for any of you.

Hopefully the talk of reactivation is true.

 

[archangel2]

Maybe slightly semantical but imho, the Coyotes were not sold for double the value. What they were sold for was the actual value of the franchise. Those that valued it at significantly less (Forbes) were wrong in their valuation.

not semantics.

If the reports are true they were sold for expansion price+400mill with a guarantee of the team coming back in 5 years at one billion bucks with the NHL keeping the other 400 mill. IT is a bizarre transaction.

This was floated on another site--Arizona owner uses the money for the build but in 5 years time does not have the Billion to buy the expansion team and needs to go to the banks to get it as a loan. That might annoy some people