Confirmed with Link: All-Purpose Coyotes Arena Talk: [Update] Land Auction Cancelled, Meruelo waiving ownership rights.

[Desert Ice 11]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1796281387244470742

https://x.com/i/web/status/1796287009839046901

https://x.com/i/web/status/1796292286709686668

Been following the team long enough that I have seen this song and dance before. Not enough money to buy the remainder of the franchise or not serious enough to make a move for it.

Why'd they'd have to wait is beyond me, this hasn't stopped other entities from swooping in getting what they wanted. If they are so interested, why don't they show up and buy the land themselves.

 

[HowlofRevel]

Been following the team long enough that I have seen this song and dance before. Not enough money to buy the remainder of the franchise or not serious enough to make a move for it.

Why'd they'd have to wait is beyond me, this hasn't stopped other entities from swooping in getting what they wanted. If they are so interested, why don't they show up and buy the land themselves.

No other owner can enter the picture now because the NHL has given Meruelo an exclusive window to bring a team to this market as a sweetener to get him to sell. The NHL can't give a franchise to any other ownership group in this market until the window expires. Also as a part of the agreement with the NHL, Meruelo has to hold on to the majority of inactive franchise and if reactivated, the reactivated franchise for a certain number years after reactivation (5 years if I recall correctly). He is only allowed to find partners to own only up to 20%. He can't sell the inactive franchise.

As far as to why other groups did not step up before the move to Utah. Meruelo was never going to sell to another local ownership group. Reason 1 is ego. He wants his entertainment district. He wants and maybe thinks he needs a team to anchor it. Selling the team to another local buyer is publicly admitting failure.

But the big reason for both the NHL and Meruelo is money. The sale price for the team with a fresh start in a new city that already has an arena far exceeded the sale price that they would get from a local buyer in Arizona who would still have to deal with all of the existing baggage. No local buyer would pay 1-1.2 billion with current conditions.

 

[GhostofTommyBolin]

According to Morgan, per Phoenix, AM has to submit a "zoning interpretation request" AFTER he buys the land because the zoning status is "up for interpretation." Phoenix has also informed AM up front that "there is no guarantee" of zoning approval and that he's not even allowed to get clarification with the zoning until he buys the land first.

This is the first part of him not even showing up and bidding, or bidding low, losing and then doing some shrug-laced presser where he says he tried. Then he rides off into the sunset with his billion and Alex Jr. giving the Valley the finger in the window of their private jet.

Morgan knows no more than you and I.

Try a steak.

 

[Jakey53]

Oh.... so you've met with Phoenix officials and asked them all about how this all works too???

The secretary will only say what see knows.

 

[Jakey53]

This is the first part of him not even showing up and bidding, or bidding low, losing and then doing some shrug-laced presser where he says he tried. Then he rides off into the sunset with his billion and Alex Jr. giving the Valley the finger in the window of their private jet.


Try a steak.

I guess we will know in a month.

 

[Jakey53]

No other owner can enter the picture now because the NHL has given Meruelo an exclusive window to bring a team to this market as a sweetener to get him to sell. The NHL can't give a franchise to any other ownership group in this market until the window expires. Also as a part of the agreement with the NHL, Meruelo has to hold on to the majority of inactive franchise and if reactivated, the reactivated franchise for a certain number years after reactivation (5 years if I recall correctly). He is only allowed to find partners to own only up to 20%. He can't sell the inactive franchise.

As far as to why other groups did not step up before the move to Utah. Meruelo was never going to sell to another local ownership group. Reason 1 is ego. He wants his entertainment district. He wants and maybe thinks he needs a team to anchor it. Selling the team to another local buyer is publicly admitting failure.

But the big reason for both the NHL and Meruelo is money. The sale price for the team with a fresh start in a new city that already has an arena far exceeded the sale price that they would get from a local buyer in Arizona who would still have to deal with all of the existing baggage. No local buyer would pay 1-1.2 billion with current conditions.

IF AM fails, anyone who wants a NHL franchise will be paying 1 billion or more, and will have to deal with getting a new arena dealing with these asshole Arizona politicians. If AM fails, you can kiss NHL hockey goodbye in Arizona for a minimum of 10yrs, probably longer.

 

[Jakey53]

Been following the team long enough that I have seen this song and dance before. Not enough money to buy the remainder of the franchise or not serious enough to make a move for it.

Why'd they'd have to wait is beyond me, this hasn't stopped other entities from swooping in getting what they wanted. If they are so interested, why don't they show up and buy the land themselves.

Wasn't Nairn and Chayka the two who found AM? IF Nairn is so sure there are others why didn't he bring them in instead of AM? Another unhappy ex employee?

 

[The Feckless Puck]

Starting to wonder if AM has early onset dementia, or Alzheimer's. Read an article yesterday implying that Jr. has been handling the Roadrunner situation (feeling kind thus far today so, situation over fiasco), combine that with his lack of public appearances, his inability to communicate when forced to appear and not demoting Jr to much a lessor role, yeah, I wonder.

My feeling is that Meruelo Sr. has never wanted to be a sports owner in anything but name. Being a sports owner is another checkbox on the "legit businessman checklist" that most high-wealth guys who want to have social cachet go by. The sports team is an asset, like his hotels and his radio stations and his restaurants.

I think also that the blowback he's gotten has soured him on this even further, to the point where he'd probably rather not be directly involved at all (I don't buy his "my family and I decided all of this" spin doctoring, either). He's gotten his NHL payout and now he's turned all the headache stuff over to his idiot son.

 

[AZDesertKnight]

Wasn't Nairn and Chayka the two who found AM? IF Nairn is so sure there are others why didn't he bring them in instead of AM? Another unhappy ex employee?

No

 

[Sinurgy]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1796281387244470742

https://x.com/i/web/status/1796287009839046901

https://x.com/i/web/status/1796292286709686668

I'm sure these are not random hot takes out of nowhere, what's the context here? Is he referencing someone else or an article or something along those lines?

 

[Coyotedroppings]

President & CEO of the AHL, Scott Howson, has said that Meruelo Jr. is the point person on the Roadrunners plans. Don't know if that means he's handling the Roadrunners or if he's taken an XG type of role though. Either way, he's heavily involved.

I'd "like" this, but it's not a likeable situation.

 

[Edenjung]

I think also that the blowback he's gotten has soured him on this even further, to the point where he'd probably rather not be directly involved at all (I don't buy his "my family and I decided all of this" spin doctoring, either). He's gotten his NHL payout and now he's turned all the headache stuff over to his idiot son.

Oh god please no.
Why not hire somebody that knows waht they are doing to run this?
Why have your son mess up even more?

 

[Coyotedroppings]

My feeling is that Meruelo Sr. has never wanted to be a sports owner in anything but name. Being a sports owner is another checkbox on the "legit businessman checklist" that most high-wealth guys who want to have social cachet go by. The sports team is an asset, like his hotels and his radio stations and his restaurants.

I think also that the blowback he's gotten has soured him on this even further, to the point where he'd probably rather not be directly involved at all (I don't buy his "my family and I decided all of this" spin doctoring, either). He's gotten his NHL payout and now he's turned all the headache stuff over to his idiot son.

So what you're telling me is that you believe he's okay with failure and content to continue down the path of failure by not throwing his son a life preserver, after he threw him in the deep end knowing finding our he couldn't swim?

I just have a hard time he got to where he is with such ignorance. Not that he couldn't make some massive mistakes, but the lack of correction that we've seen over and over again leads also leads me to question his mental capacity.

Oh god please no.
Why not hire somebody that knows waht they are doing to run this?
Why have your son mess up even more?

Failing mental faculty?

 

[Jagged Ice]

Oh god please no.
Why not hire somebody that knows waht they are doing to run this?
Why have your son mess up even more?

Classic case of narcissism. He'll never get the arena built, even if he wins the auction, which is a good possibility, but that's where this will all end. If he miraculously were to pull it off, Jr. will oversee the entire thing and F it all up. The BOG's want nothing to do with him and his son. Would anyone be surprised if Jr. was named GM of the expansion team?
"After watching GMBA, we now know what we're doing." -Alex Meruelo (Who's we?)
Gary's body language at that babysitting press conference was very revealing. He knows he'll fail miserably.

 

[TheLegend]

The secretary will only say what see knows.

So you're admitting you never got farther than the secretary.

 

[TheLegend]

My feeling is that Meruelo Sr. has never wanted to be a sports owner in anything but name. Being a sports owner is another checkbox on the "legit businessman checklist" that most high-wealth guys who want to have social cachet go by. The sports team is an asset, like his hotels and his radio stations and his restaurants.

I think also that the blowback he's gotten has soured him on this even further, to the point where he'd probably rather not be directly involved at all (I don't buy his "my family and I decided all of this" spin doctoring, either). He's gotten his NHL payout and now he's turned all the headache stuff over to his idiot son.

Junior: "Dad?? Can I have a pro sports franchise??"

Senior: "Sure!!"

 

[Canis Latrans]

On mobile you can switch to reader view.

I have a Pixel, so Android; I assume that's a Safari feature with Apple, right? Thanks for the tip regardless.

 

[Canis Latrans]

Been following the team long enough that I have seen this song and dance before. Not enough money to buy the remainder of the franchise or not serious enough to make a move for it.

Why'd they'd have to wait is beyond me, this hasn't stopped other entities from swooping in getting what they wanted. If they are so interested, why don't they show up and buy the land themselves.

No other owner can enter the picture now because the NHL has given Meruelo an exclusive window to bring a team to this market as a sweetener to get him to sell. The NHL can't give a franchise to any other ownership group in this market until the window expires. Also as a part of the agreement with the NHL, Meruelo has to hold on to the majority of inactive franchise and if reactivated, the reactivated franchise for a certain number years after reactivation (5 years if I recall correctly). He is only allowed to find partners to own only up to 20%. He can't sell the inactive franchise.

As far as to why other groups did not step up before the move to Utah. Meruelo was never going to sell to another local ownership group. Reason 1 is ego. He wants his entertainment district. He wants and maybe thinks he needs a team to anchor it. Selling the team to another local buyer is publicly admitting failure.

But the big reason for both the NHL and Meruelo is money. The sale price for the team with a fresh start in a new city that already has an arena far exceeded the sale price that they would get from a local buyer in Arizona who would still have to deal with all of the existing baggage. No local buyer would pay 1-1.2 billion with current conditions.

If another group were to win the auction, would the window really matter? I strongly suspect that if Meruelo loses the auction, then he's not going to be able to pivot elsewhere in the timeframe required.

What of his past behavior lends any credence that he could find a new plot in time, negotiate with the sellers and governments, and then have it built in time to maintain his window with the NHL? On top of that he needs it to be an ideal spot for the full entertainment district. His fellow investors likely don't all tag along if he loses and more may drop out if the location has to change.

Furthermore, if a competitor group acquires the land, they may see it as a knockout blow to Meruelo to start building their own arena there, and then they know they'll be prime frontrunners when the window expires, but also they don't have the strict deadline like Meruelo does. Meruelo just needs to get to 50% built by the end of his window to lock-in I believe, but it'll be obvious if he's even attempting that well in advance.

It's too big of an endeavor for multiple groups to get to the point of throwing actual development dollars at it beyond bidding at the auction. There's also the point that apparently the city of Phoenix has to zone it which requires negotiation, so they can hamstring Meruelo's bid versus other potential ownership groups even if the auction is through the state.

I guess my takeaway is, other groups will know in about a month if Meruelo's window is legitimate, and they can play a role in slamming it shut. A new arena and district is going to take 5 years to get done anyway, so the soonest anyone can bring a new team in is probably about the same regardless of ownership group.

 

[Vinny Boombatz]

I want to see hockey again in the desert within 5 years, however that has to happen - that is all I'm rooting for is the outcome, don't care how we get there or who owns it.

Because if it can happen within 5 years, it comes with a 'permanent' home and enough funds to sustain it, because that will be a part of any NHL criteria.

 

[rt]

Meruelo seems like a doofus so I don’t think he will get this done. Which is a shame. Because I think we’re looking at 10+ years before the NHL is back.

I’m hoping if he fails (which is likely) that he does so very quickly. I’d love to see someone else own the Roadrunners. Someone who has the chops to get them to Tempe and keep an affiliation agreement with Utah. I think we’re going to be waiting a decade for the NHL to return. But we have this tiny window with which to retain our Utah AHL affiliation and get the Roadrunners back to the valley.

That’s my main interest at this point. I want professional hockey back in the valley. And I’d like if we can keep our affiliation so we can see all those young picks and prospects come through town.

 

[JasonDemersWasOkay]

I will never root for Tucson as long as they have Utah affiliation. I’m not into being cucked.

 

[AZDesertKnight]

I will never root for Tucson as long as they have Utah affiliation. I’m not into being cucked.

My man. Same. I’ll be at ASU games.

 

[HowlofRevel]

If another group were to win the auction, would the window really matter? I strongly suspect that if Meruelo loses the auction, then he's not going to be able to pivot elsewhere in the timeframe required.

There may be milestones he has to meet that are not public. One that has been publicly leaked is that the NHL needs 18 months notice for an expansion draft, so he needs to have arena construction partially completed by the 3.5 year mark. It does not sound like the auction is a milestone. He still has a time to find another arena solution if he loses the auction.

But the NHL can't engage with any other groups until the window expires or is terminated.

 

[Edenjung]

Classic case of narcissism. He'll never get the arena built, even if he wins the auction, which is a good possibility, but that's where this will all end. If he miraculously were to pull it off, Jr. will oversee the entire thing and F it all up.

Thats the thing,
Usually people with NPD act different. Especially in public.
Of course it depends on the individual case, but usually they are very outgoing and have few social inhibitions as well as hot-tempered and social.
And they usually behave in a way that get them a lot of social rewards.
We don't really see that with him. Atleast in public,

Those are some of the characteristics and criteria of Narcissistic Personality Disorder and I cannot just go and diagonse him. In addition not every narcissist has NPD, but I think he has a big Ego and is approaching this whole thing without thinking first. Maybe he is even detached and does not really know what his son does.
At some point somebody has to tell him what to do and how to do it. Or else his other business endeavors will also suffer.

 

[Canis Latrans]

There may be milestones he has to meet that are not public. One that has been publicly leaked is that the NHL needs 18 months notice for an expansion draft, so he needs to have arena construction partially completed by the 3.5 year mark. It does not sound like the auction is a milestone. He still has a time to find another arena solution if he loses the auction.

But the NHL can't engage with any other groups until the window expires or is terminated.

Right, in my jibber jabber I was attempting to allude to the fact that he's not going to make that if the auction doesn't go his way. The key points we know are that the 5 year mark has earlier windows he has to make. My understanding is he has 5 years to get the arena to 50% NHL determination built, so he could get it evaluated to be there at 4 years 364 days and then he locks in the right to purchase/have the expansion draft at the appropriate time thereafter.

Missing out on the auction sets him behind schedule to the point where he has to line up another site. Another site gives all the other investors a chance to jump ship (potentially to even another future franchise group).

With the immense cost to develop these sites, I think you give it maybe a year post-auction to determine if Meruelo is ever going to pursue it. This is why I think another group could come in and win the auction and do essentially the same idea, but be favorable with the City of Phoenix.

Basically the timeline becomes:

A. Meruelo wins - he starts building it and it's clear he'll get to re-activate the team.
B. Meruelo loses - if he doesn't immediately pivot and we see signs something within another 12 months, it's just not going to happen, and other groups now have the green light to start spending on developing an arena with the express purpose of immediately negotiating with the NHL once Meruelo's window closes. We also do not know if there are further clauses in there where Meruelo has to show earlier progress otherwise it re-opens the market to other groups.

I think it'll generally be a 5 year process regardless just based on the complexity of it all.

I also think there's immense risk to another group to just try and build an arena without any guarantee from the league, but Kansas City did it well, and Phoenix would accept a new state of the art arena for concerts et cetera in a more central location, so maybe they just go ahead with it. I think ultimately if you win that auction, you can knock Meruelo out entirely if you just build an arena. He won't try and compete and will just abscond away with his payout.