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All-Inclusive Goalie Discussion--Jones and Scrivens and Bears, Oh My!

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cnshockey said:
Scrivens scares the **** out of me. His style is absolutely terrible. That was the biggest question mark I had with him and he's proved to me that his style is terrifying. Yes, he's played well but he's not the best option. Calmness of Jones is huge.

I know we had to trade Bernier. That's not the issue. The return was. I never liked the deal from the start. Period. It was just bad. You get a 3rd liner who can't even do THAT for us, a backup goalie who's in the prime age of his career and had bad serious issues in his game, and a pick. Pick was nice, Scrivens has been great, but overall a terrible deal. Just not worth really even debating anymore honestly. Long over. Who cares now. Can't get Beauty...I mean Bernier back.
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Look, I know you hate the freestyle unorthodox goaltending of Quick and Scrivens, but like it or not, it has worked for us. Quick's style won us a Stanley Cup and gotten us to the WCF last year while Scrivens style has largely pulled us through Quick's injury. Jones has played 4 games and you're ready to trade Quick while Scrivens put up similar results and you think he's bad and want to trade him, too. You have a bias towards the relaxed, calm style, I get it, but at this point we've gotten the same results from the unorthodox, crazy style and even better results in some cases from Quick's style. Quick's style won out over Bernier's. And right now, it is not smart to trade Scrivens to play Jones as backup.

And also, we weren't getting anymore for Bernier. No one wanted to trade anything decent for a goalie. I think it's stupid that if he was a forward of the same caliber, we'd get a great return, but you gotta take what you're given.
 
jml87 said:
Look, I know you hate the freestyle unorthodox goaltending of Quick and Scrivens, but like it or not, it has worked for us. Quick's style won us a Stanley Cup and gotten us to the WCF last year while Scrivens style has largely pulled us through Quick's injury. Jones has played 4 games and you're ready to trade Quick while Scrivens put up similar results and you think he's bad and want to trade him, too. You have a bias towards the relaxed, calm style, I get it, but at this point we've gotten the same results from the unorthodox, crazy style and even better results in some cases from Quick's style. Quick's style won out over Bernier's. And right now, it is not smart to trade Scrivens to play Jones as backup.

And also, we weren't getting anymore for Bernier. No one wanted to trade anything decent for a goalie. I think it's stupid that if he was a forward of the same caliber, we'd get a great return, but you gotta take what you're given.
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I don't think he even mentioned Quick, unless your basing this more off his posting history then what you quoted ... :badidea:

I love Quick, his style DOES require a bit more (less room for error)... When he is at his best it is amazing though.

But aside from Quick... Scrivens is only a good goalie. Through some combo of skill/luck/teamwork he has gotten the results he has... but even Randford says the guy is shakey. Sure for the time being results are what matters, but they do not adequately describe the situation always.

The sample size IS to small to base off results... But simply watching them play it should be enough to see the deficiencies in Scrivens if you understand the position.
 
scryan said:
I don't think he even mentioned Quick, unless your basing this more off his posting history then what you quoted ... :badidea:

I love Quick, his style DOES require a bit more (less room for error)... When he is at his best it is amazing though.

But aside from Quick... Scrivens is only a good goalie. Through some combo of skill/luck/teamwork he has gotten the results he has... but even Randford says the guy is shakey. Sure for the time being results are what matters, but they do not adequately describe the situation always.

The sample size IS to small to base off results... But simply watching them play it should be enough to see the deficiencies in Scrivens if you understand the position.
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Yes it's based on previous posting history. I'm tired or hearing about how we should trade Quick or that Scrivens is not a good goalie because they don't fit into the traditional goalie mold. Jones is a potentially great goalie but at this point he's played 4 games. I'd have no problem with him as backup after this year but for now it should be Scrivens and Quick. See if you can get something for Scrivens at the deadline from some desperate team. But not because he's a bad goalie but because he's a UFA and he's never going to start here. Quick is going to be our goalie for the next decade. They made a commitment to him and unless he turns into the worlds worst goalie that's not going to change.

And I know about the position, I was an ice hockey goalie too. But I'm not gonna to take away from a guy's play just cause his style isn't what the normal style is. If it works for him then more power to him.
 
:laugh:

You ACTUALLY think I want Quick traded? Jesus. How did you actually ever take that serious? You must be the only person on the board who didn't realize what an absolute joke that was...

And yes. I HATE scrambly goalies. Hate them. The style ****ing SUCKS. Calm and composed > scrambling constantly. You will never get me to think different. But despite that, I realize how good Quick is, minus the multitude of weak goals he lets in. He wins games and steals games for us. No one and I mean NO ONE is debating that.
 
cnshockey said:
:laugh:

You ACTUALLY think I want Quick traded? Jesus. How did you actually ever take that serious? You must be the only person on the board who didn't realize what an absolute joke that was...

And yes. I HATE scrambly goalies. Hate them. The style ****ing SUCKS. Calm and composed > scrambling constantly. You will never get me to think different. But despite that, I realize how good Quick is, minus the multitude of weak goals he lets in. He wins games and steals games for us. No one and I mean NO ONE is debating that.
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Those hybrid goalies seem to have had some success over the years, Tim Thomas, Dominik Hasek, Mike Richter and Mike Vernon weren't exactly butterfly goalies either. Quick isn't as wild as the aforementioned but who is judging goalies on style points? It's not like pure butterfly goaltenders are the ones winning Stanley Cups.
 
Ziggy Stardust said:
Those hybrid goalies seem to have had some success over the years, Tim Thomas, Dominik Hasek, Mike Richter and Mike Vernon weren't exactly butterfly goalies either. Quick isn't as wild as the aforementioned but who is judging goalies on style points? It's not like pure butterfly goaltenders are the ones winning Stanley Cups.
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You're confused on what we're talking about here. Talking scrambly goalies, not butterfly goalies. Yes, I also dislike goalies like Hiller who go down on literally every shot but that's not my issue.

My issue with quick is he's hyperactive in the net. He's calmed down but still susceptible to it. I like to refer to it as happy feet. The style that Bernier and Jones play is the style that I love. Calm, composed, limited movement because they rely on positioning and fundamentals, but still have that athleticism to bail them out. Quick relies on athleticism too much. He's an elite goalie but I can't help but think that if he played a calmer style but had his athleticism to bail him out/make those crazy splits saves, he'd be talked about even higher.

I also like goalies who aren't idiots handling the puck but I think everyone agrees there.
 
cnshockey said:
:laugh:

You ACTUALLY think I want Quick traded? Jesus. How did you actually ever take that serious? You must be the only person on the board who didn't realize what an absolute joke that was...

And yes. I HATE scrambly goalies. Hate them. The style ****ing SUCKS. Calm and composed > scrambling constantly. You will never get me to think different. But despite that, I realize how good Quick is, minus the multitude of weak goals he lets in. He wins games and steals games for us. No one and I mean NO ONE is debating that.
Click to expand...

So despite saying that you would trade him in this thread http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?p=75494673#post75494673 and afterwards repeating that your reply was serious, you actually were never serious? I'm sorry for being confused then.
 
Wami said:
Fantasy points on the line, who do you guys think starts tomorrow?
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Sutter likes to ride the hot hand. That being said he is ridiculously hard to get a read on when it comes to goalies. Plays it close to the chest.
 
Just on quotes alone, Scrivens is my new favorite King.

http://lakingsinsider.com/2013/12/13/scrivens-youve-just-got-to-stay-ready/

“It’s not a one-person organization here. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few,” he said.
…
"I think I’m getting soft from living in the California weather there,” he said. “I’ve got to sit in the batting cages and take some softballs to the sternum. Toughen up.”
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Martin Jones is going to have to step up with something other than clichés soon. I don't know how he outdoes Scrivens going all Spock on us. Quick still has the "Look at this ****ing team" thing going for him.
 
Wami said:
Fantasy points on the line, who do you guys think starts tomorrow?
Click to expand...

Scrivens

Unless Sutter see's more he doesn't like, he said he is going to need both and with the way things are going I think Jones gets start against Blackhawks...
 
scryan said:
I don't think he even mentioned Quick, unless your basing this more off his posting history then what you quoted ... :badidea:

I love Quick, his style DOES require a bit more (less room for error)... When he is at his best it is amazing though.

But aside from Quick... Scrivens is only a good goalie. Through some combo of skill/luck/teamwork he has gotten the results he has... but even Randford says the guy is shakey. Sure for the time being results are what matters, but they do not adequately describe the situation always.

The sample size IS to small to base off results... But simply watching them play it should be enough to see the deficiencies in Scrivens if you understand the position.
Click to expand...

Scrivens had some extremely shakey moments last season in Toronto. He'd come out okay in the end but he'd look extremely nervous and rattled for no apparent reason at all
 
scryan said:
But aside from Quick... Scrivens is only a good goalie. Through some combo of skill/luck/teamwork he has gotten the results he has... but even Randford says the guy is shakey. Sure for the time being results are what matters, but they do not adequately describe the situation always.

The sample size IS to small to base off results... But simply watching them play it should be enough to see the deficiencies in Scrivens if you understand the position.
Click to expand...

Scrivens has been successful at every level of hockey he's ever played. It's not a fluke.
 
Who's to say what happens if Jones keeps this up...BUT Jones is only 23. Quick is 27. Who's to say in 3 years (halfway into his 10 year deal) the Kings consider shopping Quick to restock the cupboard and turn the reigns over to a then 26 year old Jones...
 
johnjm22 said:
Scrivens has been successful at every level of hockey he's ever played. It's not a fluke.
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Honestly probably not too many people in the NHL who were unsuccessful at various levels on their way up... That is why they moved up.
The same is true of Jones. And Quick.

Could we see Jones on another back to back?
 
Jesus, this kid is unbelievable. Nothing seems to faze him.

I keep waiting to see the puck go into the net, and it never does. Some of the saves tonight were just plain spectacular.

I'm sold. I was always wondering why he "wasn't (ever) ready." Jesus, the guy is ready.

One would think.
 
One more thing.

Everyone is talking about the 6-0-0 start as being the best in Kings history for a goaltender. What about getting three shutouts in your first six starts?

Has a goaltender out there actually gotten four shutouts in his first six starts? Would like to see the stats nerds chew on this one and see what comes up.
 
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