Post-Game Talk: All Good Things…

SupremeTeam16

5-14-6-1
May 31, 2013
8,882
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Baker’s Bay
Also I thought we did a great job of working from below the goal line to the net front and creating a lot of chaos around Hill. Usually you get rewarded doing that but he did a good job of scrambling and just doing enough to keep the puck out. With Vegas penchant to collapse it might be better strategy to kick it out to the D, especially Bouch and let him play human target practice. With Vegas collapsing D strategy their focus is net front so they often are not ready for shots from the point. Let Bouchard unload on defenders not in position to block shots, guarantee that they start taking Bouch bombs when they aren’t expecting them their focus starts to stray from the slot area.
 

Sra1974

Registered User
Oct 8, 2019
1,818
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Would’ve liked the record but also kinda glad the streak is over, it was becoming a thing.

As for the game itself, they played well enough to win but just not well enough to ensure it if that makes sense. I thought they were pretty good defensively, not much glaring but the mistakes in the 2 goals have been pretty well evaluated. Elkholm got beat by his man in front, not a common thing. The other thye just got running a big and lost the most dangerous guy, the one without the puck coming late.

On offense the team was just ok and thats where they left the game in the balance. Vegas is very good at not getting out of position and when they do they recover quickly, and are very active with sticks and getting in lanes. There was too much indecision at times which allowed Vegas to close that gap and then just didn’t win the crucial battles when it counted. And yes Drai missed one that he scores in most often, and in a tight game that’s a biggie.

Good game for Knob to experience and now it’s up to him to help his team play a style and system that can beat Vegas in 7 games.
 
Apr 12, 2010
75,032
34,369
Calgary
I see Skinner is back on the cross when the team managed one goal and nothing at even strength. Who knew he wasn't the best goalie in the league....

Unfortunately that's a critical loss that puts us further back of Vegas.

This team really needs more one shot scorers. Oh to have a prime Ovie or even... that guy in Toronto we don't want to talk about.
 

bucks_oil

Registered User
Aug 25, 2005
8,752
5,141
I also agree - I thought Hill made several stops harder than both goals Skinner let in. I honestly thought the first goal was kind of weak too, to be honest, we had the same opportunity a few times and the puck stuck to Hill where Skinner let it get back to the slot.

That said - to be clear, as for some reason every one thinks I hate the guy - I don't think he was bad. You expect a bad bounce or two. But hockey , and hell Goaltending in general, is weird that way - if the other guy is flawless you can't be just average regardless of how good your team is otherwise, you have to be atleast nearly flawless yourself.

What we need is a premium goalie. Thats the number one apparent thing that should be evident that Hall > Skinner everytime out. As others have stated neither of the goals Skinner let in were unstoppable. The guy at the other end was making circus stops of greater difficulty against some of the best finishers on the planet. Skinner wasn't even facing Vegas top star forward tonight.

Let me start with TOO LONG DIDN'T READ: Both goalies were near perfect, focus attention elsewhere and apply the same standard regardless of position.

@iCanada , I disagree here and @Drivesaitl you need to step back from the ledge and look at the vista.

There is a complete double standard imbedded in these posts and I'm going to defend the goalie union and call it out. Skinner ABSOLUTELY WAS NEAR PERFECT... and he was far more "near perfect" than any of his teammates (unless someone witnessed a perfect game out there? Maybe McJesus?... is that our standard?).

Here is my assessment:

Oilers first goal: two on zero against the most fearsome duo in the league. You can't stop those, yet if we are going to apply the same lens as you guys do above, I guess you could say that Hill came across square to the net rather than square to McDavid... it was an awkward slide and he didn't fully commit. Perhaps he'd try that a little more "full sell out" with his glove and body out attacking the puck angle (Hasek style which everyone now emulates). I mean... since we're talking about "perfection".

Vegas first goal: Ekholm is engaged with Roy and then just inexplicably leaves him there in front of the net. Roy is a big human and impossible to see around once you are down. So Skinner does what he should, he stands tall until the shot comes, stays square to the puck and shot, he looks on both sides of Roy prior to the shot, picks it up and gets into the butterfly central to where he expects the puck is going (which is through Roy's screen). The puck hits him, just like he planned, but unfortunately it spills out and Roy beats him to it. Is this a "bad rebound", no F'n way,... iCanada said Hill had those stick to him all night. But when did we have a body directly in front - and the puck actually got through? Vegas blocked most of them. And where did the puck hit Hill? Rebounds all depend on that... if it hits you in the belly, groin, hips, armpits or elbow blocks it's gonna stick. If it hits you in the chest it's coming out and you need to glove it... but you won't be able to do that if truly screened. So after that it's a scramble to the loose puck and those are 50:50 at best. The vaunted Ekholm (and I mean that honestly) for his part made TWO errors on that play that were worse than the "error" Skinner committed in failing to coral the rebound. 1) As I said above, he left Roy in front of Skinner for no good reason... he just disengaged from the net front battle, and 2) he coasted out to block the shot... only adding to the traffic Skinner needs to look around.

Vegas 2nd goal: This one is entirely on Nurse and Ceci. Nurse gets completely outmuscled by Cotter (who?... exactly!) in the corner and after losing the battle decides to punch him rather than recover and get into position. Ceci chases the puck behind the back of the net and doesn't get it, a big no-no at any level. Then he does a fly by screen of his own goalie just as the pass is coming out to the short-side slot and the shot is on its way. Drivesaitl, Skinner was absolutely in position for this shot... he was fully hugged on short side as the puck was coming around, he got up and pushed out as the pass was made... he simply got beat by a PERFECT shot. Maybe, just maybe he manages to get 2-3 inches further out to cut the angle if Ceci hadn't screened him, but there was NO ERROR on that play other than TWO ERRORS from Nurse and TWO ERRORS from Ceci.

As for Hill... he also didn't play a perfect game, but he did play great. To me there were four notable plays:

1 and 2: On both Hyman and Kane's cross crease chances, he played those well and was in position to make what I call "stuff 'em out" saves... when the pass across is that close to you, you don't really need to make the save, just get there and get close. Those saves are 95% anticipation and maybe 5% skill. It's like fielding a baseball on the short hop, they look good, but they aren't super hard to make. I give great credit for the read by Hill, but equally, and I noticed this ALL NIGHT... I give great credit to the Vegas D... McDrai and Nuge were looking for those passes to their wingers all night, but Vegas would not allow them through the slot, when they are more dangerous... Edmonton had to skate hard and down low before that lane would open up and by then the goalie can either deflect the pass itself (which Hill did several times) or "stuff 'em out". Credit where credit is due, but I think those were pretty routine for a goalie as strong as Hill (or Skinner).

3: On the first diving "save": I don't remember exactly who... was it Kane? In any case Hill got himself way, way out of position and overcommitted as McDavid circled the net. So far out of position that his LEFT skate actually got caught on the RIGHT post. The shot was a guaranteed goal, but a defender got a stick on it. Hill bought him his beers last night, but make no mistake Hill committed a significant ERROR on that play. Thankfully for him, his defender absolved him of his sin - tis' nice when the goalie gets that benefit... stick taps all around boys!

4: On the 2nd diving SAVE: This was a great, great effort and super f'n lucky save. Again, Hill over committed on the short side (but not as bad as the first time) as McD circled and then passed to Draisaitl. But credit to him, he didn't give up he made the valiant effort to dive across and lady-luck smiled on him. If that goes in, there is ZERO blame given by most fans (except Oiler fans) but Hill would for sure be mad at himself for the over-commitment ERROR... nobody else but his goalie coach and himself would know.

Anyway... I thought that was a pretty sloppy game with the puck on both sides (but especially on Vegas) and an exceptional defensive game - again on both sides. Our skill carried the play and we win that game on puck luck 8 out of 10 times EVEN IF the quality of the goaltending on both sides... which was NEAR PERFECT but NOT PERFECT... doesn't change.
 
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McSpecial DraiBlend

Registered User
Feb 18, 2010
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Kelowna, Canada
No puck luck tonight. Boys played well. Leon never misses shots like he had there. Bouchard with a rougher game but I thought the line of Perry, Foegle and Holloway was fantastic. If anything this was probably their best game in a while. Just shows you how hard it actually is to win in the NHL.
 
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Gordy Elbows

Keep off my lawn
Oct 31, 2019
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Disagree with the 1A goalie. What? We have our 1A goalie. If you and some others are giving up on Skinner after one game, just wow. I have no words
Not giving up on Skinner at all. Just want to get some reliable backup to help with the load through the playoffs.
Skinner is playing well enough to be the #1 but he can’t be expected to overload on games played.
 

Duke74

Registered User
Jan 13, 2018
2,838
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I know that we all like to make fun of the people on the mains but a handful of posters on here should be looking in the mirror.

And I'm going to preface this by saying that yes, I know that Draisaitl is having a bad season. I've commented on it several times myself as it's frustrating to see. But this bullshit hivemind of dumping on him after during and after every single game is really, really nauseating. Yes, I know it's an emotional reaction in the moment. However, it highlights the complete lack of disrespect that people have for a player of his caliber. Maybe some of you need a reminder of the decade of darkness and the garbage bags that wore this sweater to make you appreciate what you have in Draisaitl. Is he perfect? No? Does he have his warts? Absolutely. Does he have bad games? Of course. He's human, just like everyone else, including "McJesus."

Some criticism is warranted. It's fine to point out if a player is having a bad game, bad stretch, etc. But to justify the personal insults towards the player and outlandish comments saying that he's solely responsible for that loss...come on. I feel that a handful of posters, and I won't name names, harbour some sort of hate towards Draisaitl and they've hated him ever since his draft, perhaps because they wanted Bennett instead, perhaps because he's European, who knows, and so every time the team struggles, he's the first scapegoat. Even more than trash like Brown, which is simply astonishing. No wonder other teams ridicule our fanbase.

One day, perhaps as early as this summer, he'll be gone and the same people that took great glee in bashing him every game will look back and realize their foolishness when the trade makes the team significantly worse and McDavid leaves. Who will be the next fall guy?
 

Fourier

Registered User
Dec 29, 2006
26,701
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Waterloo Ontario
There seems to be a narrative that the Oilers can't beat Vegas. In fact, these two teams have played a lot of close games over the last few years with the Oilers actually having a winning record since the start of 2021 including the playoffs. Frankly I think these two teams are very close.
 
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Louis Cypher

Boys are back in town
Jun 11, 2007
4,147
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Good game, team played well. Don't like the line of:
Kane-Drai-Foegele
Kane and Foegele are too similar and although good hockey players both are average hockey IQ. Need someone who thinks the game quicker on that line with Drai.

Not sure they talked about it or showed it but the first Vegas goal looked like it went off Ekholms stick in. Tough one. Skinner played well.

We need some upgrades if we are to beat a healthy Vegas team.
 

Arpeggio

Registered User
Jul 20, 2006
9,252
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There seems to be a narrative that the Oilers can't beat Vegas. In fact, these two teams have played a lot of close games over the last few years with the Oilers actually having a winning record since the start of 2021 including the playoffs. Frankly I think these two teams are very close.
Yeah it's kind of ironic that losing this game following a 16 game winning streak seems to have caused some to overstate the magnitude of the loss. The team just won 16 games in a row, I think they have some leeway to drop a well-played game here and there.
 

K1984

Registered User
Feb 7, 2008
15,541
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I agree.
The Oilers made Hill the difference IMO.
They just didnt do enough with their chances.


Bouchard too. He was overhandling the puck far too much.
Draisaitl in the O zone looked like he just wasnt ready to play in a game with restricted time and space.

Bouchard and Leon both are overhanding it to an incredible degree at the moment. Both seem to have to have two checkers stapled on them before they're willing to consider moving it. To make matters worse these plays are often made high in the zone by both.

Leon especially needs to get some pace back to his decision making with the puck. Working off of checks is part of his game, but it's at the point now where he just flat out refuses to move it. There was one sequence in the second where he picked a puck off around our own blue line with options up ice. Rather than quickly advance it (and catching Vegas in the middle of a change) he instead decided to skate it back into his own end, isolate himself, and then turn it over. This type of thing has been repetitive with him; deferring on a scoring look only for the look to go away and the puck to be turned over.
 
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frag2

Registered User
Mar 8, 2006
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Good game, team played well. Don't like the line of:
Kane-Drai-Foegele
Kane and Foegele are too similar and although good hockey players both are average hockey IQ. Need someone who thinks the game quicker on that line with Drai.

Not sure they talked about it or showed it but the first Vegas goal looked like it went off Ekholms stick in. Tough one. Skinner played well.

We need some upgrades if we are to beat a healthy Vegas team.

Foegele has tunnel vision. Lately, it seems like he over estimates his own abilities and tries to stickhandle through every contest.

Actually, that whole line seems to have that problem lately.
No one wants to just shoot the puck at the net. A whole lotta passing and 'making plays'
 
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mcdingdong

Registered User
Mar 21, 2019
276
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Let me start with TOO LONG DIDN'T READ: Both goalies were near perfect, focus attention elsewhere and apply the same standard regardless of position.

@iCanada , I disagree here and @Drivesaitl you need to step back from the ledge and look at the vista.

There is a complete double standard imbedded in these posts and I'm going to defend the goalie union and call it out. Skinner ABSOLUTELY WAS NEAR PERFECT... and he was far more "near perfect" than any of his teammates (unless someone witnessed a perfect game out there? Maybe McJesus?... is that our standard?).

Here is my assessment:

Oilers first goal: two on zero against the most fearsome duo in the league. You can't stop those, yet if we are going to apply the same lens as you guys do above, I guess you could say that Hill came across square to the net rather than square to McDavid... it was an awkward slide and he didn't fully commit. Perhaps he'd try that a little more "full sell out" with his glove and body out attacking the puck angle (Hasek style which everyone now emulates). I mean... since we're talking about "perfection".

Vegas first goal: Ekholm is engaged with Roy and then just inexplicably leaves him there in front of the net. Roy is a big human and impossible to see around once you are down. So Skinner does what he should, he stands tall until the shot comes, stays square to the puck and shot, he looks on both sides of Roy prior to the shot, picks it up and gets into the butterfly central to where he expects the puck is going (which is through Roy's screen). The puck hits him, just like he planned, but unfortunately it spills out and Roy beats him to it. Is this a "bad rebound", no F'n way,... iCanada said Hill had those stick to him all night. But when did we have a body directly in front - and the puck actually got through? Vegas blocked most of them. And where did the puck hit Hill? Rebounds all depend on that... if it hits you in the belly, groin, hips, armpits or elbow blocks it's gonna stick. If it hits you in the chest it's coming out and you need to glove it... but you won't be able to do that if truly screened. So after that it's a scramble to the loose puck and those are 50:50 at best. The vaunted Ekholm (and I mean that honestly) for his part made TWO errors on that play that were worse than the "error" Skinner committed in failing to coral the rebound. 1) As I said above, he left Roy in front of Skinner for no good reason... he just disengaged from the net front battle, and 2) he coasted out to block the shot... only adding to the traffic Skinner needs to look around.

Vegas 2nd goal: This one is entirely on Nurse and Ceci. Nurse gets completely outmuscled by Cotter (who?... exactly!) in the corner and after losing the battle decides to punch him rather than recover and get into position. Ceci chases the puck behind the back of the net and doesn't get it, a big no-no at any level. Then he does a fly by screen of his own goalie just as the pass is coming out to the short-side slot and the shot is on its way. Drivesaitl, Skinner was absolutely in position for this shot... he was fully hugged on short side as the puck was coming around, he got up and pushed out as the pass was made... he simply got beat by a PERFECT shot. Maybe, just maybe he manages to get 2-3 inches further out to cut the angle if Ceci hadn't screened him, but there was NO ERROR on that play other than TWO ERRORS from Nurse and TWO ERRORS from Ceci.

As for Hill... he also didn't play a perfect game, but he did play great. To me there were four notable plays:

1 and 2: On both Hyman and Kane's cross crease chances, he played those well and was in position to make what I call "stuff 'em out" saves... when the pass across is that close to you, you don't really need to make the save, just get there and get close. Those saves are 95% anticipation and maybe 5% skill. It's like fielding a baseball on the short hop, they look good, but they aren't super hard to make. I give great credit for the read by Hill, but equally, and I noticed this ALL NIGHT... I give great credit to the Vegas D... McDrai and Nuge were looking for those passes to their wingers all night, but Vegas would not allow them through the slot, when they are more dangerous... Edmonton had to skate hard and down low before that lane would open up and by then the goalie can either deflect the pass itself (which Hill did several times) or "stuff 'em out". Credit where credit is due, but I think those were pretty routine for a goalie as strong as Hill (or Skinner).

3: On the first diving "save": I don't remember exactly who... was it Kane? In any case Hill got himself way, way out of position and overcommitted as McDavid circled the net. So far out of position that his LEFT skate actually got caught on the RIGHT post. The shot was a guaranteed goal, but a defender got a stick on it. Hill bought him his beers last night, but make no mistake Hill committed a significant ERROR on that play. Thankfully for him, his defender absolved him of his sin - tis' nice when the goalie gets that benefit... stick taps all around boys!

4: On the 2nd diving SAVE: This was a great, great effort and super f'n lucky save. Again, Hill over committed on the short side (but not as bad as the first time) as McD circled and then passed to Draisaitl. But credit to him, he didn't give up he made the valiant effort to dive across and lady-luck smiled on him. If that goes in, there is ZERO blame given by most fans (except Oiler fans) but Hill would for sure be mad at himself for the over-commitment ERROR... nobody else but his goalie coach and himself would know.

Anyway... I thought that was a pretty sloppy game with the puck on both sides (but especially on Vegas) and an exceptional defensive game - again on both sides. Our skill carried the play and we win that game on puck luck 8 out of 10 times EVEN IF the quality of the goaltending on both sides... which was NEAR PERFECT but NOT PERFECT... doesn't change.
Very well stated.

Per usual, posters with an axe to grind immediately jump on Skinner at first opportunity (although I applaud their patience, he's at like 13-14 straight quality starts which is fantastic). How many games can you reasonably expect to win when you score ONE goal? We lose for the first time in ages and instantly some boneheads are back to fat Stu ain't cutting it, we need a goalie upgrade!

Anyways, I thought we had a really strong game and the weakest point on the team is by far Cody Ceci. He is way too far up the lineup for a serious cup contending team and myriad advanced stats and the good old eye test back this up in spades. Desharnais handles the puck and makes plays orders of magnitude better than Ceci ffs.
 
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Da McBomb

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Dec 9, 2004
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I think Draisaitl's line needs more speed and a puck mover... I'd consider moving McLeod up with Drai. They've shown chemistry in the past. First line is also not clicking that well either... I'd maybe try moving Holloway up there and move Nuge down to 3rd line center to replace McLeod.


Really impressed with Vinny's game last night... he and Nurse were great.
 
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bucks_oil

Registered User
Aug 25, 2005
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I think Draisaitl's line needs more speed and a puck mover... I'd consider moving McLeod up with Drai. They've shown chemistry in the past. First line is also not clicking that well... Nuge is struggling to produce... I'd maybe try moving Holloway up there and move Nuge down to 3rd line center to replace McLeod.

Really impressed with Vinny's game last night... he and Nurse were great.

Nurse was generally good last night, but he got plain ol'fashioned outmuscled and outcompeted in the corner by Paul Cotter on Vegas' 2nd goal. That was his puck to win. Mistakes happen.
 

Soundwave

Registered User
Mar 1, 2007
74,185
30,380
Right? We played a hard fought game and deserved number 17. Hill was outstanding and is obviously in the players heads at this point. I do agree we could stand to upgrade Ceci though. Give me Paryko god dammit lol

Is he "in our heads" or just plain good?

Because no one seems to piss a drop against him. He shut out Vancouver this year too. He shut out Colorado too (41 save shut out).

This season Adin Hill

1.000 save percentage versus Vancouver
1.000 save percentage versus Colorado
0.968 versus Edmonton
0. 946 versus Dallas
0.947 versus NYR

If this is some kind of weird heater he's on since last spring, I've never seen anything like this in decades of watching this sport. Even Cam Ward and Binnington cooled off considerably after their miracle Cup runs.
 
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Draiskull

Registered User
Oct 26, 2005
23,388
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I prefer the Kulak Desharnais chemistry. Stealing from Peter to pay Paul
I prefer Nurse developing a chemistry with Desharnais instead of us going after Paraykos of NHL.
Ceci-Kulak can handle bottom pairing duties and have chemistry from previous years
 

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