All-Encompassing Tortorella/Sather Thread

[Riverdale]

As an outsider lookin in,,,,,,,,,,,I think Barry Trotz would be a great coach in New york ! He is one cat that gets the most out of his players year in and year out. He seems to have the type personality that players respect and play hard for.I think for whatever reason the media respects him as well, albeit Nashvilles media is nothing compared to NY or Philly etc.

The Media isn't even that bad here. Torts just can't handle it. Ranger related media in NY is nothing like the Yankees/Giants.

 

[Bluenote13]

I didn't read but what, 1 or 2 posters out of hundereds who post here a day said that about Pierre Maguire?

I wanted Dave Tippet way back when, would have been great here. Oh well....

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Callahan and Richards came to Torts and told him very early in the season he was riding the team too hard in practice. That was 2 months ago - no improvements to the conditioning whatsoever, it seems. Take a close look at all 5 players as they move up and down the ice - you'll very rarely see more than a couple of them moving their feet.

If his players come to him with the same stuff now, he should tell them to go **** themselves, especially Richards

No kidding.

In reality, there was no excuse for the Rangers to be this out of shape. They all had access to some of the best training facilities available, lots of icetime, a large core group that knew all about Torts' system and conditioning level needed, and access to both NHL and NCAA players in the area from multiple teams for scrimmages.

Everyone in hockey circles knew back in June the odds were very high of the season starting in January. It's not that damned hard to set up conditioning and training programs when you have the whole summer and beginning of September to get together with the team and training staff to get things done.

To go from the "best conditioned team in hockey" in 2011-12 to this? Too many players reading too many positive press clippings over the summer and thought they were better than what they really are.

It really pisses me off to no end how these guys took last season for granted and thought they could sleepwalk into the playoffs this year. Strong work ethic and conditioning were the cornerstones of this team last year....and they completely lost it.

 

[Zamboner]

I very much agree with this:

Seth Rothman ‏@RothmanHockey

#Rangers are struggling, I think, b/c Tortorella's system is one in which you must be conditioned. Training camp did not allow that to hapen

I don't. Tortorella's camps aren't magic.

08-09 - 7th place, 1st round exit (no camp, but consistent with others)
09-10 - 9th place, No playoffs
10-11 - 8th Place, 1st Round Exit
11-12 - 1st Place, ECF
12-13 - 9th Place, ?

Last year was the anomaly. We've actually been really consistent under Tortorella. Consistently mediocre. This is who we are with this coach. Fighting to get into the playoffs, to accomplish nothing once we get there. Last year was an exception from what we've seen from Tortorella, not the proven. Somebody else even elaborated...

Just checked out his TB record on hockeydb

2001-02 Tampa Bay Lightning NHL Head 82 27 40 11 4 0.421 Out of Playoffs
2002-03 Tampa Bay Lightning NHL Head 82 36 25 16 5 0.567 Lost in round 2
2003-04 Tampa Bay Lightning NHL Head 82 46 22 8 6 0.646 Won Championship
2005-06 Tampa Bay Lightning NHL Head 82 43 33 0 6 0.561 Lost in round 1
2006-07 Tampa Bay Lightning NHL Head 82 44 33 0 5 0.567 Lost in round 1
2007-08 Tampa Bay Lightning NHL Head 82 31 42 0 9 0.433 Out of Playoffs


Pretty similar to his stint here. Except our anomaly wasn't a SC Championship.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

I don't. Tortorella's camps aren't magic.

08-09 - 7th place, 1st round exit (no camp, but consistent with others)
09-10 - 9th place, No playoffs
10-11 - 8th Place, 1st Round Exit
11-12 - 1st Place, ECF
12-13 - 9th Place, ?

Last year was the anomaly. We've actually been really consistent under Tortorella. Consistently mediocre. This is who we are with this coach. Fighting to get into the playoffs, to accomplish nothing once we get there. Last year was an exception from what we've seen from Tortorella, not the proven. Somebody else even elaborated...

I guess rosters have nothing to do with it. What a fool proof analysis you have presented.

 

[Riverdale]

^ It is clear that Hank got us to the ECF last year. People use last year to defend Torts but do they forget just how close we were to getting knocked out? Two game 7s and a good deal of luck. All Torts has accomplished here is first round exits.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

^ It is clear that Hank got us to the ECF last year. People use last year to defend Torts but do they forget just how close we were to getting knocked out? Two game 7s and a good deal of luck. All Torts has accomplished here is first round exits.

Its funny how pervasive hate can skew reality.

"All Torts has accomplished here is first round exits"

....except for last year, when coached a team that went further than any Ranger team in 20 years. But yes, that wasnt due to him. Could've had a cardboard cutout behind the bench.

 

[Kel Varnsen]

"When things go bad it's Torts' fault, when things go well it's everyone but Torts' doing."- The Irrational Ranger "fan" aka The Torts Hater

 

[bwunderlich]

NY bruins fan here who watches lots of ranger games (son is big Callahan fan).

I don't see being shape an issue, but rather ice-time allocation. Teams have to roll four lines and all d-pairings regardless in a shortened and compacted schedule.

This is where Torts is hurting this team imho Bruins 3rd line has been awful but Julien has religeously rolled all lines.

Rangers will make the playoffs as the east is weak. But will Callahan have anything left come playoff time.

My .02

 

[Drewbackatu*]

I guess rosters have nothing to do with it. What a fool proof analysis you have presented.

Exactly! It's amazing that the slug who put this team together (and who is finishing up his 13th year as GM) never get's any of the blame for this trainwreck of a team!

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

Its funny how pervasive hate can skew reality.

"All Torts has accomplished here is first round exits"

....except for last year, when coached a team that went further than any Ranger team in 20 years. But yes, that wasnt due to him. Could've had a cardboard cutout behind the bench.

It's the same old same old. It's wasn't Renney it was Jagr and Lundqvidt. It wasn't Torts it was Lundqvidt.

 

[KreiMeARiver*]

Torts is getting way too much credit for the ECF. Hank was a beast last year and i think guys like prust was more of a factor than we thought

I'm on the fence, here. I wouldn't say a coach can get "too much credit" for implementing a system and a culture that enabled the team to have 109 points and make it to the ECF. You can't just dismiss our best results since the 90's.

Whatever, just fire him. Team is going nowhere with or without him.

And replace him with who?

Look, I'm not pleased with him, either, but there needs to be a plan. If you want to fire him, offer suggestions. Don't just say "fire him". His replacement has to be able to work with the players, and best Torts' results from last year. What coach can we replace him with that can win us a Cup?

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

It's the same old same old. It's wasn't Renney it was Jagr and Lundqvidt. It wasn't Torts it was Lundqvidt.

Tortorella was going to come here and unlock that offensive potential.

Now, 4 short years later, we need a tactician. Perhaps he can be of the professorial type - grey hair - glasses....

 

[Zamboner]

I guess rosters have nothing to do with it. What a fool proof analysis you have presented.

It's less of a stretch than "the lack of full camp" theory, when he's had three full camps and two of them produced teams that looked exactly like this one. That's not a little bit of a red flag to you? Especially considering, it's not like he ever coached a bad Rangers team. He's always had good rosters. I'm not comparing rebuilding years to last year's team. Tortorella's had a playoff team since day one. And all but one year, it's looked a lot like the team we're watching now. Was last year's roster that much better? I personally don't think so. I guess you do.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

Whatever, just fire him. Team is going nowhere with or without him.

Come on, you're better than that.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

It's less of a stretch than "the lack of full camp" theory, when he's had three full camps and two of them produced teams that looked exactly like this one. That's not a little bit of a red flag to you? Especially considering, it's not like he ever coached a bad Rangers team. He's always had good rosters. I'm not comparing rebuilding years to last year's team. Tortorella's had a playoff team since day one. And all but one year, it's looked a lot like the team we're watching now. Was last year's roster that much better? I personally don't think so. I guess you do.

Yes, I think last year's roster was better than the one with Erik Christensen playing 1C. I could go on, but whats the point?

 

[Dorado*]

If he gets canned if we miss the playoffs ( he's not getting canned this season ) I'd go after a coach in the Paul Maclean mold tutored under Bowman and the red wings system . With that would have to infuse more puck possession players . No necesarily soft danglers but guys who can hold onto the puck . With that eithe hope one of ours develops or acquire a puck mover and a shooter in the back end . We have the banger hopefully in McI but lack a shooter .
Maclean can in same game play a trap and counter and run and gun and puck possession . This is part roster part coaching . Last years team seriously over achieved and was a wild ride but the Magic is gone . I know BLeed Ranger blue disagrees but another re build seems totally necessary .

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

Tortorella was going to come here and unlock that offensive potential.

Now, 4 short years later, we need a tactician. Perhaps he can be of the professorial type - grey hair - glasses....

Which is odd because in each case the success had nothing to do with the coach.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Which is odd because in each case the success had nothing to do with the coach.

So, in a nutshell...

If the team performs well, every ounce of credit goes to the players.

If the team underperforms, every ounce of scorn goes towards the coach.

Do I have that right?

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

So, in a nutshell...

If the team performs well, every ounce of credit goes to the players.

If the team underperforms, every ounce of scorn goes towards the coach.

Do I have that right?

I guess that's how it works.

 

[Doctyl]

I didn't read but what, 1 or 2 posters out of hundereds who post here a day said that about Pierre

i said it a while back as a joke

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

I didn't read but what, 1 or 2 posters out of hundereds who post here a day said that about Pierre Maguire?

I wanted Dave Tippet way back when, would have been great here. Oh well....

For whst it's worth, isn't McGuire talked about more as a GM candidate than he is talked about as a Head Coach? Not for the Rangers, just in general.

 

[BrianLeetch2]

Where is Sean Avery when you need him?

 

[KreiMeARiver*]

For whst it's worth, isn't McGuire talked about more as a GM candidate than he is talked about as a Head Coach? Not for the Rangers, just in general.

Didn't he interview for the Montreal head coaching job, last year, or in the offseason?

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

For whst it's worth, isn't McGuire talked about more as a GM candidate than he is talked about as a Head Coach? Not for the Rangers, just in general.

Yes.

Never really heard anyone suggest he was looking at coaching jobs.