Player Discussion Alexis Lafreniere

[NickyFotiu]

Laf hasn't been as productive or exciting in his first 3 years but Billy Harris may turn out to be a comparable one day as #1 picks.

 

[Profet]

He would have made the team out of camp because he showed he's a solid NHLer the last three years and JUST turned 22. Just like lots of vets didn't show much in camp.

This is your opinion.
And your opinion seems to run counter to at least 2 coaching staffs and many in the media and others "in the know".

I'd also counter that if you had the ability to trade a bottom six "solid NHLer" for a 1st round pick+... you do it.

And yet he still has the 3rd most EV goals on the team since he came here out of Juniors.

Maybe one day he'll win the EV Art Ross Trophy and help the team win the EV Stanley Cup.

 

[Vito Andolini]

And yet he still has the 3rd most EV goals on the team since he came here out of Juniors.

Yes but that's also trending downward. He was ranked 7th last year in ESG/60 and dropped quite a bit in his rate from 1.13 in the prior year to .697 in 2022-23.

 

[bhamill]

This is your opinion.
And your opinion seems to run counter to at least 2 coaching staffs and many in the media and others "in the know".

I'd also counter that if you had the ability to trade a bottom six "solid NHLer" for a 1st round pick+... you do it.


Maybe one day he'll win the EV Art Ross Trophy and help the team win the EV Stanley Cup.

Whether he'd make any other team is an opinion, yes, since we will never know. But it's a more likely scenario than YOUR OPINION that he wouldn't have made the NYR this year if he wasn't a 1OA.

Opinion aside, STATISTICALLY, Laf is objectively a very solid middle six player. That's just reality. Accept it or don't, it wont change.

And it doesn't matter what you (or I) would or wouldn't trade him for. What is the relevancy of that to anything at all that I said?

This is a team that has been miserable at scoring 5v5 last few seasons and he's one of our top three in that category. You can be as snide as you want about it, but it's not unimportant.

 

[bhamill]

Yes but that's also trending downward. He was ranked 7th last year in ESG/60 and dropped quite a bit in his rate from 1.13 in the prior year to .697 in 2022-23.

And? That still would not change what I said. He's a statistically solid middle sixer who scores goals at 5v5.

 

[bleedblue94]

Unless I’ve missed something new, all the valiquette quotes are extremely run of the mill and nothing noteworthy. If I recall correctly there was a line about “putting down the golf clubs” that was very clearly just meant in a general sense and not actually insinuating that he doesn’t train or care enough

Respectfully go listen to the discussion that was on Kippers show last week before chucking stones around about what I referenced. I am not talking about the discussion from the garden faithful popcast in the spring, I am talking about a discussion last week about laffy and his training camp

 

[bhamill]

One thing I'll say is that if Laffy was genuinely lax in his training and effort I SINCERELY doubt he would be very popular with his teammates, especially Kreider and Trouba, and they seem to f***in ADORE the kid.
Again, all of this is speculation and I'm not saying there isn't another level (or TWO even) Laf could strive for in training, but I kind of doubt that he doesn't make an effort.

 

[bleedblue94]

One thing I'll say is that if Laffy was genuinely lax in his training and effort I SINCERELY doubt he would be very popular with his teammates, especially Kreider and Trouba, and they seem to f***in ADORE the kid.
Again, all of this is speculation and I'm not saying there isn't another level (or TWO even) Laf could strive for in training, but I kind of doubt that he doesn't make an effort.

One thing I will say in laffy's defense is he was brought into an org that from a coaching standpoint has had no enforced accountability since Torts left. You can see it clear as day with what has happened in the short time that lavy has been here, it is culture shock. There are some athletes that demand a culture of their teammates and other athletes that need their coach or org to demand a culture of standards from the player. nyr did him absolutely no favors with the culture he came into.

laffy seems like a golden personality in the room but he also seems like a kid that will skirt based on what is allowed rather than have that personal standard that rubs off on others. this is also a part of why he was at times considered a floater even in his draft year. we all actually want this kid to succeed.

 

[NickyFotiu]

One thing I'll say is that if Laffy was genuinely lax in his training and effort I SINCERELY doubt he would be very popular with his teammates, especially Kreider and Trouba, and they seem to f***in ADORE the kid.
Again, all of this is speculation and I'm not saying there isn't another level (or TWO even) Laf could strive for in training, but I kind of doubt that he doesn't make an effort.

He doesn't look heavy to me so I won't speculate on his fitness. Did he improve as a player? We will see soon enough. I hope so.

 

[bhamill]

One thing I will say in laffy's defense is he was brought into an org that from a coaching standpoint has had no enforced accountability since Torts left. You can see it clear as day with what has happened in the short time that lavy has been here, it is culture shock. There are some athletes that demand a culture of their teammates and other athletes that need their coach or org to demand a culture of standards from the player. nyr did him absolutely no favors with the culture he came into.

laffy seems like a golden personality in the room but he also seems like a kid that will skirt based on what is allowed rather than have that personal standard that rubs off on others. this is also a part of why he was at times considered a floater even in his draft year. we all actually want this kid to succeed.

That's fair, bud.

 

[80shockeywasbuns]

Respectfully go listen to the discussion that was on Kippers show last week before chucking stones around about what I referenced. I am not talking about the discussion from the garden faithful popcast in the spring, I am talking about a discussion last week about laffy and his training camp

I just listened to it. Valiquette prefaces all of it with “I don’t know, I’m not in the trenches, I’m not in the room” then goes on to say literally nothing of substance whatsoever

 

[bleedblue94]

I just listened to it. Valiquette prefaces all of it with “I don’t know, I’m not in the trenches, I’m not in the room” then goes on to say literally nothing of substance whatsoever

he said that about one part, not the entire subject. he also flat out made a comment in response to the questions about laffy asking "do you want to get me fired?"

have you ever heard of a public disclaimer so you aren't held responsible for something even when you know what you are saying is true? is there any part of you that thinks that the nyr employee would truly speculate and say what he did if it wasnt true or he had no basis for it? he would be fired

 

[TGWL]

Again, where does this idea that Laf is lazy or has a poor work ethic come from? It seems like people question his work ethic based on nothing other than the fact that the team has yet to increase his role since entering the league. Yet that logic makes no sense given this organizations heinous track record with talent evaluation and development of drafted forwards.

Guys NYR have given more leash in the top 6 than Laf/Kakko since drafting them:
-Colin Blackwell
-Barclay Goodrow
-Jesper fast
-Dryden Hunt

All of these players :
-had zero track record of high end point production at any level
-were significantly older than age ~23 which is the statistical average peak for NHL forwards
-are no longer with the team or were rumored to be traded had they not had an albatross contract with a NMC.
-were not 20 years old with a 20 even strength goal season under their belt.

Instead of seeing all this shit and questioning wtf is going on with this team people would rather baselessly speculate about a players work ethic, even when said players production is extremely good relative to their TOI/deployment

Were you able to post that with a straight face? How do you come to the conclusion that anybody's opinion on Laf is based on the fact that the team has yet to increase his role, and not from the way he stops moving his feet and starts looking lazy?

Our opinions are based on what we see. We're not playing a what if scenario here. "What if NYR gave the kid top 6 minutes from the get go and he gained a bunch of confidence and now moves his feet..." our opinions are based on what Laf is doing, and yes, speculating that it's an effort issue.

We've seen him perform well. We've seen him perform lousy. The consistently is bad. Real bad. Whether it really is effort or just something else.

 

[LokiDog]

He’s the exact same player he has been since day 1. Just forget every narrative, positive or negative and use your eyes. He’s exactly the same. There just isn’t anything special there. Chytil so far this year looks like a PLAYER every shift. Even though he hasn’t truly broken through and become a real impact player so far, you can SEE it. He has it. It’s there. You are a flat-out liar if you say you can see it at all with Lafreniere. He hasn’t improved any facet of his game and if he produces slightly more each year it’s because he is slightly more accustomed to the speed of the NHL and because his linemates are improving. Aside from some jump early in game 1, Laf is unnoticeable, unremarkable and often noticeably the worst player on his line. He looks exactly the same he has at every other time in his NHL career thus far.

 

[Row I Goon]

After a solid start I was hoping to see some consistency across 3 games.

I did not.

 

[Rangers in 7]

BTW, just took a quick look.
Yakupov in 350 NHL games had 43 EV goals
Laf in 219 NHL games has had 45 EV goals...

Don’t use facts, it confuses people

 

[Rangers in 7]

He’s the exact same player he has been since day 1. He hasn’t improved any facet of his game and if he produces slightly more each year it’s because he is slightly more accustomed to the speed of the NHL and because his linemates are improving. Aside from some jump early in game 1, Laf is unnoticeable, unremarkable and often noticeably the worst player on his line. He looks exactly the same he has at every other time in his NHL career thus far.

This is a stretch to say the least

Laf could easily have 3 points in 3 games this year if not for bullshit disallowed goal and the assist he lost on panarins goal in game 1

It’s tiresome to get into on here with the same people but laf right now is a solid middle 6 winger in the nhl. Those are just facts. Based off his career stat line he’s probably underpaid as well. So take him for what he is right now and see if he continues to improve. He will never be Jack Hughes or Conor mcdavid, but if he helps win us a cup or 2 do we really give a shit? I’d say no

 

[LokiDog]

This is a stretch to say the least

Laf could easily have 3 points in 3 games this year if not for bullshit disallowed goal and the assist he lost on panarins goal in game 1

It’s tiresome to get into on here with the same people but laf right now is a solid middle 6 winger in the nhl. Those are just facts. Based off his career stat line he’s probably underpaid as well. So take him for what he is right now and see if he continues to improve. He will never be Jack Hughes or Conor mcdavid, but if he helps win us a cup or 2 do we really give a shit? I’d say no

There are always players who “could have” had more points. Bedard could have 10 already. Thompson tonight for Buffalo “could have” had 3-4. Laf isn’t going to be a deciding factor in whether we win any Cups or not and he isn’t a “decent middle six” player when you watch the hockey games. He’s an invisible and completely unnoticeable middle six player who has the stat line of a good third liner (I know, I know… if we skew the stats to only ES and heavily favor goals, he’s almost a borderline 2nd line player) because he plays with lots of good players. Whether that’s the annually improving Chytil and Kakko or it’s Panarin, or Zib, he rarely ever plays with players of his own caliber. If he did he would likely have significantly less points. A line of three Laf level players is a 4th line on any team. Laf playing next to Bread and Chytil is a line that will overall be decent. Laf with younger Chytil and Kakko is a third line with upside. Laf x3 would be 3 25 point players.

 

[LORDE]

After a solid start I was hoping to see some consistency across 3 games.

I did not.

Summarizes it pretty well.

I mean I was VERY impressed in game 1. I admit that.

I also admit it had me hoping this was him turning the corner because I want THAT SO MUCH

I'm back to being afraid it wasn't / isn't

 

[LORDE]

This is a stretch to say the least

Laf could easily have 3 points in 3 games this year if not for bullshit disallowed goal and the assist he lost on panarins goal in game 1

It’s tiresome to get into on here with the same people but laf right now is a solid middle 6 winger in the nhl. Those are just facts. Based off his career stat line he’s probably underpaid as well. So take him for what he is right now and see if he continues to improve. He will never be Jack Hughes or Conor mcdavid, but if he helps win us a cup or 2 do we really give a shit? I’d say no

WUT???

You could say this about ANY player... especially for a team w / one cup in 83 yrs lol

Here... I'll show you:

"Tanner Glass is THE WORST hockey player in the NHL but if he helps us win a cup or two do we really give a shit?"

 

[Beniersgeron]

My two favorite players to follow right now is Jack Hughes and Alexis Lafreniere, and even to this day Jack Hughes are still losing the puck while trying to stickhandling throught opponents, but when he succeed to do so its a thing of beauty and scoring chances is created. I got no inside information but his coaches must have allowed him to do so from day 1, learn from his misstake and keep doing his stuff to learn and get confidence to be creative with the puck.

Im wondering if the past coaches have told Lafreniere not to take chances and stickhandling with the puck and so he is kinda shell shock now? Because what I see is a guy that is afraid to be creative with the puck and just looking to get rid of it like a hot potatoe. I do believe/hoping Laffy will one day have the maturity and confidence to take chances and be creative with the puck, but Im not sure its gonna be with the Rangers.

 

[Priorae]

I think the Rangers are handling this pretty well. He’s on a high performing line where he can defer and still remain involved. The alternative is asking him to anchor a lower line, which he has shown no evidence he can do.

They (we) can be patient here without any detriment to the results.

 

[mike14]

This is a stretch to say the least

Laf could easily have 3 points in 3 games this year if not for bullshit disallowed goal and the assist he lost on panarins goal in game 1

It’s tiresome to get into on here with the same people but laf right now is a solid middle 6 winger in the nhl. Those are just facts. Based off his career stat line he’s probably underpaid as well. So take him for what he is right now and see if he continues to improve. He will never be Jack Hughes or Conor mcdavid, but if he helps win us a cup or 2 do we really give a shit? I’d say no

It was pretty obvious offside so I'm not sure why you'd call it bullshit.
If anything it shows a lack of game awareness by Laf that he allowed himself to get onto such a poor position where he took himself offside

 

[NickyFotiu]

My two favorite players to follow right now is Jack Hughes and Alexis Lafreniere, and even to this day Jack Hughes are still losing the puck while trying to stickhandling throught opponents, but when he succeed to do so its a thing of beauty and scoring chances is created. I got no inside information but his coaches must have allowed him to do so from day 1, learn from his misstake and keep doing his stuff to learn and get confidence to be creative with the puck.

Im wondering if the past coaches have told Lafreniere not to take chances and stickhandling with the puck and so he is kinda shell shock now? Because what I see is a guy that is afraid to be creative with the puck and just looking to get rid of it like a hot potatoe. I do believe/hoping Laffy will one day have the maturity and confidence to take chances and be creative with the puck, but Im not sure its gonna be with the Rangers.

Yes in fact 3 different head coaches have told Laf no shooting hard, no creative passing, and no skating fast as well. People do not realize that all 3 of our coaches and 2 GMs had this master plan to stop Laf. If you don't believe me look at Krav. They tested the plan on him first. Don't tell anyone though. Its a secret to keep Lafs salary low. Pretty ingenious salary cap manipulation if you ask me.

 

[PANARIN BREAD FAN]

anybody notice that bread seems to be working harder so far more than his usual efforts? i guess having all that extra weight to carry a line with a lug like 13 on it will make one toil way harder.