Player Discussion Alexis Lafreniere

[Profet]

I don't care if you get 5000 minutes on the powerplay... if they are in the form of 10,000 30 second shifts starting outside of the O zone you will not be racking up powerplay points. Oh... and Trouba on the unit. Hahahaha.

Especially when Lafreniere has shown he is wholly incapable of a zone entry that results in possession.

But yeah... let's blame PP1.

 

[NickyFotiu]

I don't care if you get 5000 minutes on the powerplay... if they are in the form of 10,000 30 second shifts starting outside of the O zone you will not be racking up powerplay points. Oh... and Trouba on the unit. Hahahaha.

LOL while I do agree with your first statement, you do realize Trouba actually had more PP points in less PP minutes than Laf last season right?

 

[CasusBelli]

For the economists out there, I'm thinking of calling Laffy's perceived value the Laugher Curve: the inverse relationship between age and trade value (below 25 years old).

 

[NickyFotiu]

All Laf debating aside I have a serious question. Is there a reason Laf often seems to wear his helmet extra high on his head? Is it just me that has noticed this?

 

[CasusBelli]

All Laf debating aside I have a serious question. Is there a reason Laf often seems to wear his helmet extra high on his head? Is it just me that has noticed this?

Never noticed. If anything, I'm surprised that hasn't been the case with Miller -- that haircut.

 

[haohmaru]

All Laf debating aside I have a serious question. Is there a reason Laf often seems to wear his helmet extra high on his head? Is it just me that has noticed this?

It’s those big brainz he’s got.

 

[NickyFotiu]

It’s those big brainz he’s got.

Nah that can't be it because occasionally he wears it normally.

 

[bhamill]

There's no argument that it's better to get a longer shift on the pp with the top unit. But, let's not completely delude ourselves...it was pointed out already, but Laf ranked the worst of all forwards last season in pp points per 60.

Actually, he's stunk all 3 seasons so far on the pp, both statistically and by the eye test.

Right... because all of his PP time was in 30 second shifts starting outside the O zone... Which we all know from actually watching the games. I don't know if that's a thing that is actually tracked so its hard to compare it with any of the 32 NHLers that scored more than Laf with less total pp time.

 

[bhamill]

Didn

Especially when Lafreniere has shown he is wholly incapable of a zone entry that results in possession.

But yeah... let's blame PP1.

Didn't BLAME pp1, merely stated a fact: PP shifts of 30 secs starting outside the O zone are NOT conducive to scoring pp points. A hard thing to refute, I know. There's also four other skaters on a given pp available for zone entry, BTW.

LOL while I do agree with your first statement, you do realize Trouba actually had more PP points in less PP minutes than Laf last season right?

I sit corrected, though my point was that he's no FOX, no one is.

 

[NYR94]

 

[SA16]

There's no argument that it's better to get a longer shift on the pp with the top unit. But, let's not completely delude ourselves...it was pointed out already, but Laf ranked the worst of all forwards last season in pp points per 60.

Actually, he's stunk all 3 seasons so far on the pp, both statistically and by the eye test.

I mean do you really think it's more likely that Laf is horrible on the PP than just the structure of the Rangers PP makes it near impossible to produce on PP2?

Under Gallant Chytil had 4 total 5v4 points.
Kakko had 5 total 5v4 points
Laf had 6 total 5v4 points.

It's not the players. It's the role. They may not be great PP players, or maybe they will be, but it is impossible to say in that system. Nobody has ever produced in it on this team.

 

[Shesty31]

Just watching Bedard's first, I'm so jealous that other teams get to watch a generational talent unfold before their eyes, get to watch him grow on a nightly basis.

He's the future of the game just like Ovy, Crosby, Matthews, McDavid, McKinnon, Hughes, etc. and no matter how the team is doing you can tune in and be excited about that each and every night.

I dont get that feeling with Laf at all. It quickly evaporated after the initial hype wore off. And maybe its unfair to compare the two but dammit why can't we? When the ball popped up with the NYR logo on it how could you not think there was a decent chance at that, no matter what the draft class?

Its all about timing I guess... Right place, wrong time.

Pretty much this. Can’t remember the last time I saw Laf and was like “wow he just did something special there” .. I just don’t see any sort of elite trait from him that would make me think he can take any sort of large step forward. I hope I’m wrong .

 

[haohmaru]

Like to be a fly on that wall.

 

[Vito Andolini]

I mean do you really think it's more likely that Laf is horrible on the PP than just the structure of the Rangers PP makes it near impossible to produce on PP2?

Under Gallant Chytil had 4 total 5v4 points.
Kakko had 5 total 5v4 points
Laf had 6 total 5v4 points.

It's not the players. It's the role. They may not be great PP players, or maybe they will be, but it is impossible to say in that system. Nobody has ever produced in it on this team.

I get it and agree that they have been put in a tough role on pp2. But again, that doesn't change that Laf was worst of all our forwards in pp point per 60 last year. From a points perspective, he seems to do worse than others.

In his 1st season, he managed to put up 0 points while getting 1:16 of pp time per game.

It's not the end of the world and doesn't close the book on him improving, but it's not exactly promising.

 

[will1066]

Like to be a fly on that wall.

Best thing Lav can do right now is give him confidence and tell him it's OK to try things and make mistakes. And don't try to be Bedard. Play the game the way he can.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

He may be a way better player but at least "Alexis Lafreniere" is a really cool sounding hockey name. "Timothy Stoots-luh" is the worst name i've ever heard. Also i don't think Timothy can even grow a beard.

 

[TGWL]

Like to be a fly on that wall.

"You move your left foot. Then you move your right foot"

*Confused look*

"Ok, we'll try a different way. You move your right foot. Then you move your left foot."







For everybody in the back, I'm obviously kidding.

 

[bhamill]

I mean do you really think it's more likely that Laf is horrible on the PP than just the structure of the Rangers PP makes it near impossible to produce on PP2?

Under Gallant Chytil had 4 total 5v4 points.
Kakko had 5 total 5v4 points
Laf had 6 total 5v4 points.

It's not the players. It's the role. They may not be great PP players, or maybe they will be, but it is impossible to say in that system. Nobody has ever produced in it on this team.

EXACTLY. A 30 second shift starting outside the O zone Is like having 20 seconds in the O zone, at best, to set up and score. It's ridiculous to expect pp numbers from that.

I get it and agree that they have been put in a tough role on pp2. But again, that doesn't change that Laf was worst of all our forwards in pp point per 60 last year. From a points perspective, he seems to do worse than others.

In his 1st season, he managed to put up 0 points while getting 1:16 of pp time per game.

It's not the end of the world and doesn't close the book on him improving, but it's not exactly promising.

points P60 on the powerplay is an incomplete stat. The length of the shift and where it starts its far more relevant.

 

[TGWL]

EXACTLY. A 30 second shift starting outside the O zone Is like having 20 seconds in the O zone, at best, to set up and score. It's ridiculous to expect pp numbers from that.


points P60 on the powerplay is an incomplete stat. The length of the shift and where it starts its far more relevant.

But his fellow peers, deployed on that second unit receive the same usage. I figured with new jersey tracking you'd be able to fully compare vs each individual player, but we're not there yet or I'm not paying for that, yet.

 

[bhamill]

But his fellow peers, deployed on that second unit receive the same usage. I figured with new jersey tracking you'd be able to fully compare vs each individual player, but we're not there yet or I'm not paying for that, yet.

Absolutely correct. And what do the numbers of those other NYRs that only get those 30 second pp shifts look like? Chytil 5 pp points... KK 3 pp points. Laf at 4 pp points is the average there.

 

[SA16]

I get it and agree that they have been put in a tough role on pp2. But again, that doesn't change that Laf was worst of all our forwards in pp point per 60 last year. From a points perspective, he seems to do worse than others.

In his 1st season, he managed to put up 0 points while getting 1:16 of pp time per game.

It's not the end of the world and doesn't close the book on him improving, but it's not exactly promising.

Why are you comparing him to the guys on PP1? He actually leads the PP2 in points among forwards the last two years. Additionally, pts/60 is not always the best way to look at PP pts because it is very role dependent. Someone who plays net front, like Kreider, will almost always have a low pts/60 compared to the other players on the ice because it is not a position conducive to assists.

And he wasn't last last year anyway. He was ahead of Chytil at 5v4.

 

[TGWL]

Absolutely correct. And what do the numbers of those other NYRs that only get those 30 second pp shifts look like? Chytil 5 pp points... KK 3 pp points. Laf at 4 pp points is the average there.

At best (without paying).

[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]Player[/TD]
[TD]O-Zone Start %[/TD]
[TD]Shift Count[/TD]
[TD]On-the-fly %[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Lafreniere[/TD]
[TD]40.9%[/TD]
[TD]157[/TD]
[TD]50.6%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Kakko[/TD]
[TD]33.9%[/TD]
[TD]127[/TD]
[TD]55.9%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Chytil[/TD]
[TD]35.5%[/TD]
[TD]138[/TD]
[TD]56.5%[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


Players with 4 points or more with <= Lafreniere's total powerplay time on Ice. (ppp/60)
*Lafreniere ranks 37 out of 37. Which means 36 forwards received less time on ice and scored = or more points. So I am going to just look at the 5 players above him because I don't have time to do the entire list. (ranked from 36-32 ppp/60)
[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]Player / Points[/TD]
[TD]O-zone start %[/TD]

[TD][TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]Shift Count[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE][/TD]

[TD]On-the-fly %[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Dillon Dube/4[/TD]
[TD]28%[/TD]
[TD]143[/TD]
[TD]62.9%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Frederick Gaudreau/4[/TD]
[TD]24.2%[/TD]
[TD]149[/TD]
[TD]64.4%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Nicholas Paul/4[/TD]
[TD]30.8%[/TD]
[TD]146[/TD]
[TD]61%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]JJ Peterka/5[/TD]
[TD]43%[/TD]
[TD]135[/TD]
[TD]51.1%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Mason Marchment/5[/TD]
[TD]27.4%[/TD]
[TD]135[/TD]
[TD]65.2%[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

This obviously doesn't really tell anybody where the puck was during those on the fly shifts, or how much time was left in the powerplay. So I didn't bother with neutral zone on the fly shifts. You can look at expected goals while on the ice for the man advantage, but it's really tough to determine which players were fortunate enough to be in the right place, vs actually creating a play while receiving less minutes.

 

[Peltz]

Just watching Bedard's first, I'm so jealous that other teams get to watch a generational talent unfold before their eyes, get to watch him grow on a nightly basis.

He's the future of the game just like Ovy, Crosby, Matthews, McDavid, McKinnon, Hughes, etc. and no matter how the team is doing you can tune in and be excited about that each and every night.

I dont get that feeling with Laf at all. It quickly evaporated after the initial hype wore off. And maybe its unfair to compare the two but dammit why can't we? When the ball popped up with the NYR logo on it how could you not think there was a decent chance at that, no matter what the draft class?

Its all about timing I guess... Right place, wrong time.

To be 100% fair, we have been fortunate enough to have Adam Fox, Igor Shesterkin, and Henrik Lundqvist. Each of those can be considered at the level of at least Jack Hughes from your list, in their own respective positions. We just haven't had that level of game-breaking talent at forward for the length of a player's career.

Panarin was that for only his first year here. But we at least got a taste of it.

 

[Daves a mess]

Like to be a fly on that wall.

Heard it had to do with the coach telling Laugh to keep the Halloween candy and softball glove out of his stall

 

[Mandar]

you know what would make all the criticism go away and silence the critics? Just be noticeable.....do things that win games....points or no points, just be a part of the game....dont blend in. I dont give a shit about PP1 or PP2....dont care if he gets 10, 15, or 27 minutes in icetime, coudnt give two f***s if he is on the third line.....or any other bullshit. No need to give him a cookie if he makes a nice pass.... conversely, no need to bitch and whine if he has a turnover in the neutral zone. Just be a player instead of a participant.

This would be refreshing.