Player Discussion Alexis Lafreniere

[mike14]

Has Laf ever really been a '3rd line' guy here?
I'm assuming it depends on what you actually mean by the term, but in 5v5 ice time he's come in at 4th, 6th, 5th during his seasons here, and the only reason he wasn't 4th last year is that Mika had 10 more mins in the 1 extra game he played.

Even if it's a line-mate thing more than ice time thing, his top 4 5v5 line-mates have been:
Chytil, Mika, Buch, KK
Chytil, Zib, Goodrow, CK
KK, Chytil, Tro, Panarin
That's a good mix of vets and young talent to be alongside. Outside of Goodrow (and it seem that in year 2 GG had soured on Laf a bit) they aren't '3rd line' guys.

PP is a different story (obviously), but it does seem like the ice-time, and opportunity to play with skilled players, has been there basically since day 1

 

[bhamill]

Have you given even a modicum of consideration to the idea that not all drafts are created equal? Any chance at all that the Rangers knew from day one that Laf was just an ok, never gonna be great, player and they were happy to carry the water for the league by drumming up excitement and hype for the draft? Is there any chance at all that they just never saw Laf as being better than the big, speedy, soon to be 50 goal scorer and the perennial best LW in the game they already had in the lineup so they treated him accordingly?

To assume that the same would happen with a player as skilled and dominant as Bedard is crazy.

The Rangers did not ruin Laf. They picked first in a shitty draft. That’s what happens to this franchise.


Ok. So you’re signing up for THIS season. I’ve been sounding the alarm bell for three years now and can never seem to get anyone to sign up for a timeline after which it will be ok for me to be worried.

This year it is?

Never said all drafts are the same. Never said they ruined Laf. I said the lack of opportunity means hes not as far along his path as he would be. It’s not complicated.

I’m signed up for EVERY season. But to your point, if he gets opportunities and does nothing with them I’d say he’s less likely to be anything more than a second liner, which looks like his floor at this point. If he doesn’t get consistent opportunity then yeah, I’ll see what happens when he’s 22-23.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Couldn't imagine listening to those donks on 3.5 Thoughts. Was just listening to The Snake on with Tony and he nails it. If Laffy doesn't get the royal road gimme from Blackwell during 3 on 3 he'd still be looking for his first goal.

Wow that was hard to listen to but he is right. More importantly he was right in 2020.

You can't set a wet twinkie on fire.

What do you have against one of natures greatest foods?

 

[bhamill]

Fair enough.

Here’s my only question. Literally, just one the one:

What happens when someone (maybe not you) makes this EXACT same post again NEXT October 6th?

For me, THIS is the year that it’s shit or get off the pot. Always was. Preseason doesn’t mean much, but knowing this is my all or nothing year for Laf, the early indications are not good. If he has 43 points this year are we going to call that “progress every year” and have the same exact conversations one year from today? He’s only 22 (but 23 in 5 days)!!! He’s made progress every year!

As @Synergy27 said - I’ve been raising the alarm about Laf simply not having the talent we thought for a while now. Which off season will it be justified and not “too soon” and just me being a “hater” and “writing him off”?

If he gets consistent opportunity and doesn’t take real steps, I’ll be resigned to the fact that he’s likely a 2nd or very good 3rd liner. An unpleasant reality, but that’s life. If he doesn’t get that opportunity (which I feel won’t be the case) then I’ll be saying something similar next year when he’s 22 going into camp.

 

[LokiDog]

Has Laf ever really been a '3rd line' guy here?
I'm assuming it depends on what you actually mean by the term, but in 5v5 ice time he's come in at 4th, 6th, 5th during his seasons here, and the only reason he wasn't 4th last year is that Mika had 10 more mins in the 1 extra game he played.

Even if it's a line-mate thing more than ice time thing, his top 4 5v5 line-mates have been:
Chytil, Mika, Buch, KK
Chytil, Zib, Goodrow, CK
KK, Chytil, Tro, Panarin
That's a good mix of vets and young talent to be alongside. Outside of Goodrow (and it seem that in year 2 GG had soured on Laf a bit) they aren't '3rd line' guys.

PP is a different story (obviously), but it does seem like the ice-time, and opportunity to play with skilled players, has been there basically since day 1

How shocking that the lack of opportunities is just a coping mechanism invented by the HF populace to try and distract from the fact that he doesn’t have a single demonstrable skill that translated at this level. Shocking.

 

[LokiDog]

If he gets consistent opportunity and doesn’t take real steps, I’ll be resigned to the fact that he’s likely a 2nd or very good 3rd liner. An unpleasant reality, but that’s life. If he doesn’t get that opportunity (which I feel won’t be the case) then I’ll be saying something similar next year when he’s 22 going into camp.

He’s 22 in 5 days. Before the season even starts officially. The fact that he’ll be 22 when camp starts isn’t even relevant. He’s 22 this season. He’ll be 23 next. As @mike14 showed above, he has had opportunities. It’s a lack of his ability to seize a single one that is the problem, not the lack of them being given.

 

[NickyFotiu]

.

 

[Harbour Dog]

Not with the game on the line in the third. Laf was not out there, Cuylle was. Laf was replaced by Blake Wheeler.

Wheeler was also on that unit all night. I went to bed after the second period, so never seen whatever happened in the third.

 

[Gordon Bombay]

Are we at the point where it's now or get moved? I'm too lazy to look up former #1's to see when they were eventually moved after failing but I would assume it's around this D4 stage.

I say this not as a trade now move, but later on in the year or off-season. And for the record I'm pulling for the kid and have advocated for more ice time, but right now he is the same guy he was last year despite opportunities and management moves so far. I fear we're getting close to the tipping point

 

[mike14]

Are we at the point where it's now or get moved? I'm too lazy to look up former #1's to see when they were eventually moved after failing but I would assume it's around this D4 stage.

I say this not as a trade now move, but later on in the year or off-season. And for the record I'm pulling for the kid and have advocated for more ice time, but right now he is the same guy he was last year despite opportunities and management moves so far. I fear we're getting close to the tipping point

I doubt he'd be moved this season unless something goes really askew. Assume he can get to around 40 pts again, his cap hit/production is fine for now.
The issue becomes when he's either blocking someone who might be able to do more with the ice-time, or his cost goes up with a new contract without an increase in production

 

[Daves a mess]

Every game going forward for this guy will put him under a microscope and he'll be picked apart more and more.

I think he's cracking now. By Thanksgiving this butterball is gonna burst.

Its a wing and prayer now.

 

[NickyFotiu]

I doubt he'd be moved this season unless something goes really askew. Assume he can get to around 40 pts again, his cap hit/production is fine for now.
The issue becomes when he's either blocking someone who might be able to do more with the ice-time, or his cost goes up with a new contract without an increase in production

I think 40 points combined with the team not performing well would almost be a sure trade. I say that because Drury will want to trade him while some teams still hope he would play better with them. If you wait too long you lose that aspect. I thought Stevie Yzermen did a good job keeping those thoughts alive when dealing with Drouin who it was clear needed to be moved. Crazy to think Drouin is still only 28. Feels like 10 years ago.

 

[RangerBlues]

Only in Ranger world could a number one pick be this bad.
And the number two not be much better.
And the seven and nine be complete busts.
And then lets wonder why we have one cup in a hundred years.

 

[EdJovanovski]

Only in Ranger world could a number one pick be this bad.
And the number two not be much better.
And the seven and nine be complete busts.
And then lets wonder why we have one cup in a hundred years.

Honestly if it weren't for Laf, Kakko would be taking a lot of heat right now. He's just as historically bad, nearly worst production for a second overall pick in a century.

 

[LokiDog]

I think 40 points combined with the team not performing well would almost be a sure trade. I say that because Drury will want to trade him while some teams still hope he would play better with them. If you wait too long you lose that aspect. I thought Stevie Yzermen did a good job keeping those thoughts alive when dealing with Drouin who it was clear needed to be moved. Crazy to think Drouin is still only 28. Feels like 10 years ago.

Though their games are different Drouin and Laf are almost identical IMO. Right down to being Quebecois, can’t miss, high end draft talents and rumored to want to go to/have interest from Montreal. Somehow Montreal moved McDonagh for Gomez and then Sergachev for Drouin. Unfortunately, I don’t think we can get them to do Guhle for Laf.

Drouin was 3rd overall, Quebecois, debuted at 19 years old, averaged 13:14, put up 32 in 70 as a rookie. Laf was 1st overall, Quebecois, debuted at 19 years old, averaged 13:52, put up 21 in 56 as a rookie. Nearly identical. Drouin actually had a better point per game in less minutes. He was traded after his third season. He also managed to hit 53 points in his third season.

They’re very close, IMO, and I very much expect Laf’s career to closely mirror Drouin’s unfortunately. I hope we can pull of a Drouin for Sergachev type move before everyone realizes that.

Alexithan Lafrouiniere

 

[NickyFotiu]

Though their games are different Drouin and Laf are almost identical IMO. Right down to being Quebecois, can’t miss, high end draft talents and rumored to want to go to/have interest from Montreal. Somehow Montreal moved McDonagh for Gomez and then Sergachev for Drouin. Unfortunately, I don’t think we can get them to do Guhle for Laf.

Drouin was 3rd overall, Quebecois, debuted at 19 years old, averaged 13:14, put up 32 in 70 as a rookie. Laf was 1st overall, Quebecois, debuted at 19 years old, averaged 13:52, put up 21 in 56 as a rookie. Nearly identical. Drouin actually had a better point per game in less minutes. He was traded after his third season. He also managed to hit 53 points in his third season.

They’re very close, IMO, and I very much expect Laf’s career to closely mirror Drouin’s unfortunately. I hope we can pull of a Drouin for Sergachev type move before everyone realizes that.

I can see the similarities. Totally different players styles and skills but I understand what you are saying.

 

[RangerBlues]

As far as im concerned he should be cut. Complete trash. No drive. No compete.
Waste of time.
Id rather have an undrafted wanker with a hair in his ass.

 

[NickyFotiu]

As far as im concerned he should be cut. Complete trash. No drive. No compete.
Waste of time.
Id rather have an undrafted wanker with a hair in his ass.

Lets not get carried away. Lets not throw out the baby with the bath water. As a former first round pick who has scored 18 goals in a season he does have some value. No need to cut anyone with value on a 2.5 mill contract. In a tribute to Phil Esposito we will trade him and a 1st round pick for 36 year old Sidney Crosby and 37 year old Evgeni Malkin

 

[mike14]

As far as im concerned he should be cut. Complete trash. No drive. No compete.
Waste of time.
Id rather have an undrafted wanker with a hair in his ass.

this is oddly specific

 

[bouds]

He just needs some PP time.....

hahaha

 

[bl02]

Has anyone mentioned that the other west coast Alex Lafreniere (Laferierre) has outscored/outshot/outplayed NY Lafreniere this preseason?

 

[LokiDog]

Has anyone mentioned that the other west coast Alex Lafreniere (Laferierre) has outscored/outshot/outplayed NY Lafreniere this preseason?

What no one realized is they were actually standing in for one another all year leading up to the draft. We got duped into taking the nobody and they got the 1OA kid and accidentally gave him time to develop. What a world, what a world.

 

[Daves a mess]

Only in Ranger world could a number one pick be this bad.
And the number two not be much better.
And the seven and nine be complete busts.
And then lets wonder why we have one cup in a hundred years.

Those 4 picks will set this franchise back a decade.

Miller, Schneider, Othmann, Cuylle, not enough to change that.

 

[RangerBlues]

Those 4 picks will set this franchise back a decade.

Miller, Schneider, Othmann, Cuylle, not enough to change that.

A generation. All the rest are interchangeable parts at best.
Busting on those picks for whatever reason dedicates a decade of hockey.
You cant replace those bodies and the time dedicated.
We ended up with two flakes. And two third line players. At best.

 

[LokiDog]

A generation. All the rest are interchangeable parts at best.
Busting on those picks for whatever reason dedicates a decade of hockey.
You cant replace those bodies and the time dedicated.
We ended up with two flakes. And two third line players. At best.

It still sets us back just about as badly, but I can see Laf as a very low end (as in, he can be slotted there and sort of produce like one, but he doesn’t create anything at all on his own and you’d rather he not be in your top six) 2nd liner or just an average/mediocre third liner and Kakko as an eventual lowish end 1st line, two way winger or a very good second line versatile winger. So even with my hundred posts about Laf being a genuine bust, I still wouldn’t go quite so far as two third liners at best. I’d say Laf is a career second/third line tweeter and Kakko is a versatile but high end top six winger when all is said and done.