Player Discussion Alexis Lafreniere

[NickyFotiu]

I especially like when he was handed all that pp1 time, or even those pp2 shifts that were more than 30 seconds and started in the O zone. Hahaha. They groomed both Laf and KK as third liners. They were not handed everything.

When Laf-Chytil-KK score as 3rd liners how is it different then when they score as 2nd liners?

When Laf plays with Bread or Zibs does he score significantly more?

If Chytil and KK are "top 6" forwards than why are they not skilled enough to play with Laf?

Laf has played 5 preseason games. Much of which were with Zib, CK, and Bread. Was he on the 3rd line? Did he look like a better player?

I'm doing everything I can to remain hopeful for Laf but does it help to pretend he has played well in this preseason? Did he play well in last years playoffs? Laf did play well in the second half of 2021-22 and in the 2021-22 playoffs. Why can people say that but not admit he has looked pretty bad now without the nonsense about coaches telling him he is being groomed to be a 3rd liner or a grinder?

 

[TGWL]

I’ll be honest, those both seem like the same thing. My point being that being “replaceable” does not mean you aren’t valuable. If you think a 21 year old who scored at about 0.5 ppg while throwing 141 hits playing with two other young players trying to find their games is not valuable, we simply disagree. If you are just saying he’s far from untouchable then we agree. As long as we get value for him.

It sound more like you're disagreeing because you think there's more to his game, and that's fine. But right now based on what we're getting, he is 100% replaceable.

For the record, I'm not saying trade him for peanuts.

 

[LokiDog]

He didn't wait to be given top line minutes. He went out and earned top line minutes.

This is the weird bit for me. Regardless of what line he started on, with what teammates, had he already been neutered in his first 5-10 games, preseason included? Had he already been benched and demoted, told to be a grinder? Had we preemptively been in touch all summer, making sure to destroy his confidence before his debut?

Then why did he arrive at the NHL looking like he had cinder blocks on his legs and without a clue how to effectively play his position? It’s not like Laf came out of the gate full of fire and we told him to pipe down. He looked indistinguishable from a Goodrow or Vesey or McKegg the second he arrived. Except slower than all of them.

Bedard showed up in his first preseason game and said “nice to meet you, I’m Connor and I’m going to be a superstar”. It wouldn’t have mattered if he played 12 minutes with Entwistle and Guttman (who? Exactly). His first shift, he hopped the boards, looked to get in the play and when the puck hit his stick he took off and started trying to make moves and show his stuff. And succeeded.

Jack Hughes did the same thing. MacKinnon the same. Even Yakupov did that, he just also was really bad defensively and had blinders on offensively so he eventually fizzled out. But he still came out flying from day one, trying to make plays. Even Kakko to an extent looked pretty good very early on. So why did Laf, who supposedly would have “easily” gone before Hughes if they were in the same draft year, show up looking like Quinn spent the entire summer kicking his dog every time he suggested he was going to be a scorer while yelling “you’re a grinder, Alexis! Grind!”?

 

[TGWL]

How are all of the people who aren’t concerned about what Laf has shown so far reacting now that the smoke that used to be contained to this board has now grown to be a full fledged international fire? Are we still pointing to the kinda ok for an NHL player ES statistics and 1OA pedigree and waiting patiently until next year?

"It's preseason. He's 21. His spot is safe. Some people just want to see him fail. Thank goodness you're not the GM"

If anybody isn't concern they're either lying to you, kidding themselves, or will soon have a big smack of reality.

You can't blame opportunity anymore. He needs to be better and that's going to fall on him now. He's either going to swim or sink. If he sinks, then this is probably it for him here in NY.

 

[DanielBrassard]

This is the weird bit for me. Regardless of what line he started on, with what teammates, had he already been neutered in his first 5-10 games, preseason included? Had he already been benched and demoted, told to be a grinder? Had we preemptively been in touch all summer, making sure to destroy his confidence before his debut?

Then why did he arrive at the NHL looking like he had cinder blocks on his legs and without a clue how to effectively play his position? It’s not like Laf came out of the gate full of fire and we told him to pipe down. He looked indistinguishable from a Goodrow or Vesey or McKegg the second he arrived. Except slower than all of them.

Bedard showed up in his first preseason game and said “nice to meet you, I’m Connor and I’m going to be a superstar”. It wouldn’t have mattered if he played 12 minutes with Entwistle and Guttman (who? Exactly). His first shift, he hopped the boards, looked to get in the play and when the puck hit his stick he took off and started trying to make moves and show his stuff. And succeeded.

Jack Hughes did the same thing. MacKinnon the same. Even Yakupov did that, he just also was really bad defensively and had blinders on offensively so he eventually fizzled out. But he still came out flying from day one, trying to make plays. Even Kakko to an extent looked pretty good very early on. So why did Laf, who supposedly would have “easily” gone before Hughes if they were in the same draft year, show up looking like Quinn spent the entire summer kicking his dog every time he suggested he was going to be a scorer while yelling “you’re a grinder, Alexis! Grind!”?

when the Rangers played Lafreniere with Panarin and Strome in his 2nd NHL game that was because they decided to force Laf to become a 3rd line grinder who does nothing but throw late hits and stand in front of the crease. It’s a BS narrative.

 

[Profet]

"It's preseason. He's 21. His spot is safe. Some people just want to see him fail. Thank goodness you're not the GM"

If anybody isn't concern they're either lying to you, kidding themselves, or will soon have a big smack of reality.

You can't blame opportunity anymore. He needs to be better and that's going to fall on him now. He's either going to swim or sink. If he sinks, then this is probably it for him here in NY.

And him failing isn't something ANY of us wanted... despite what some of the Lafreniere faithful would have you believe.

His failing basically puts the nail in the coffin of this core/window. The plan the second the Rangers won the lottery was to have Kakko and Laf take over the points production as the vets aged.

But here we are.

 

[CLW]

"It's preseason. He's 21. His spot is safe. Some people just want to see him fail. Thank goodness you're not the GM"

If anybody isn't concern they're either lying to you, kidding themselves, or will soon have a big smack of reality.

You can't blame opportunity anymore. He needs to be better and that's going to fall on him now. He's either going to swim or sink. If he sinks, then this is probably it for him here in NY.

That's the issue. Going back to the tail end of last season, the playoffs and now this pre season Laf hasn't been close to being even a 0.5 ppg player. His game has basically collapsed. If he was just a guy he'd be in the minors now. And now we hear that the Rangers have gone out of their way to make it work for him over this summer. To me Laffy doesn't look unfit, and we're told his tests coming in to camp were good. The immediate question for the Rangers now is he fixable? As I said earlier, it is gutcheck time for Laffy. He can't have everything handed to him, at some point he must want it more than anything.

 

[Profet]

That's the issue. Going back to the tail end of last season, the playoffs and now this pre season Laf hasn't been close to being even a 0.5 ppg player. His game has basically collapsed. If he was just a guy he'd be in the minors now. And now we hear that the Rangers have gone out of their way to make it work for him over this summer. To me Laffy doesn't look unfit, and we're told his tests coming in to camp were good. The immediate question for the Rangers now is he fixable? As I said earlier, it is gutcheck time for Laffy. He can't have everything handed to him, at some point he must want it more than anything.

There is nothing to fix.

The scouts were wrong. His game wasn't/isn't transferable to the NHL with his skillset and/or physical attributes.

The sooner we trade him and recoup what is left of his value, the better this team will be.

 

[LokiDog]

when the Rangers played Lafreniere with Panarin and Strome in his 2nd NHL game that was because they decided to force Laf to become a 3rd line grinder who does nothing but throw late hits and stand in front of the crease. It’s a BS narrative.

It’s a BS narrative. He was given the same opportunities as most #1 picks. The difference is that he FAILED to run with ANY opportunity he was given - whether with Zib and Kreider or Bread and Strome, or more recent opportunities this pre-season. He was given the opportunities. People look at the total minutes or the total PP time and use it to weave this narrative that it was always that way but he was given the chance to play on a grown up line or to play on the PP or to earn more minutes or to play with star players. On the left and the right.

Sure, MAYBE he had a little less leash because we had other good players who could take those opportunities that he failed to take advantage of, but the notion that he just came to camp and we were like “cool, cool so you’re gonna play 13 minutes a night with unproven players without any real offensive zone time and we expect you to just kind of hit things a lot and otherwise just dump the puck, okay?” is complete nonsense.

He showed up and we tried him everywhere hoping that we could find some magic combination that would result in the entire organization not collectively scratching their heads and wondering where the f*** the talent went.

 

[Synergy27]

This is the weird bit for me. Regardless of what line he started on, with what teammates, had he already been neutered in his first 5-10 games, preseason included? Had he already been benched and demoted, told to be a grinder? Had we preemptively been in touch all summer, making sure to destroy his confidence before his debut?

Then why did he arrive at the NHL looking like he had cinder blocks on his legs and without a clue how to effectively play his position? It’s not like Laf came out of the gate full of fire and we told him to pipe down. He looked indistinguishable from a Goodrow or Vesey or McKegg the second he arrived. Except slower than all of them.

Bedard showed up in his first preseason game and said “nice to meet you, I’m Connor and I’m going to be a superstar”. It wouldn’t have mattered if he played 12 minutes with Entwistle and Guttman (who? Exactly). His first shift, he hopped the boards, looked to get in the play and when the puck hit his stick he took off and started trying to make moves and show his stuff. And succeeded.

Jack Hughes did the same thing. MacKinnon the same. Even Yakupov did that, he just also was really bad defensively and had blinders on offensively so he eventually fizzled out. But he still came out flying from day one, trying to make plays. Even Kakko to an extent looked pretty good very early on. So why did Laf, who supposedly would have “easily” gone before Hughes if they were in the same draft year, show up looking like Quinn spent the entire summer kicking his dog every time he suggested he was going to be a scorer while yelling “you’re a grinder, Alexis! Grind!”?

I was really hoping to have forgotten about this by now, but Laf still sucks so I haven’t. I vividly recall how excited I was to watch those first couple of games in 20-21 and being excited to see some new faces/numbers I didn’t recognize racing through the neutral zone and pressuring the opposing defense. It took a few minutes for me to realize that I was getting excited about Phil Di Giuseppe and Kevin Rooney.

When I finally found Laf on the ice I was like “Oh. That guy? Huh.” And that’s still exactly how I feel.

Remember when this board went nuts after Laf completed a crisp, cross ice pass that led to a goal? Shit like that still gets us going because we can’t expect more anymore.

 

[Greschner4]

In their D+1 internal conversations with themselves, did Jack Hughes answer the question "What's going to happen to me if this move fails?" in the same way Laf did? Was the incentive structure on their respective teams -- one of which was very good; the other of which sucked -- the same?

No, it wasn't. The Devils would live with Jack Hughes's (many) mistakes on more important lines and the power play, which helps young players grow. The Rangers would not live with Laf's.

 

[LokiDog]

In their D+1 internal conversations with themselves, did Jack Hughes answer the question "What's going to happen to me if this move fails?" in the same way Laf did? Was the incentive structure on their respective teams -- one of which was very good; the other of which sucked -- the same?

No, it wasn't. The Devils would live with Jack Hughes's (many) mistakes on more important lines and the power play, which helps young players grow. The Rangers would not live with Laf's.

This is only your inference. There is nothing factual about this. It’s like when you’re home and your girl is out and she isn’t texting and comes home late. You fill in the gaps with all kinds of theories and get mad. Is it possible she’s cheating? Sure. It’s also possible she’s dancing with her girlfriends and lost track of time. Or that her phone actually did die.

Is it possible that the Devils let Hughes do whatever he wanted? Maybe. It’s also possible that they did tear him a new one for poor decisions and push him to simultaneously play his game offensively while being more well rounded and responsible (psst… based on his progress and the fact that it’s the NHL where the goal is to win, I would wager this is actually more likely than him being told to do whatever he wants and don’t worry about losing 9-5 every night).

Is it possible Laf has been heavily scrutinized and neutered and lambasted by three different coaching staffs in NY and INSTRUCTED to play a grinder’s game? I guess… if you’re one of those people who believe everyone but yourself is stupid. Is it more likely they’ve tried to pump him up, calm him down, tell him to play his game, etc? Again, since the entire organization has a lot riding on Laf’s success… I’d wager yes.

 

[huerter]

Bedard has done things during preseason that Kreider and Panarin couldn't dream of. Would the Rangers debacle of a development team put him on line 3? Of course. Would any other team in the league put Bedard 3 behind Panarin and Kreider? Absolutely not.
Panarin
Bedard
Kreider

Bedard 1 in a few months little by little.

If I was a GM and my coach had them in any order that coach would be gone with a quickness. #stoplinenumbering

 

[TGWL]

In their D+1 internal conversations with themselves, did Jack Hughes answer the question "What's going to happen to me if this move fails?" in the same way Laf did? Was the incentive structure on their respective teams -- one of which was very good; the other of which sucked -- the same?

No, it wasn't. The Devils would live with Jack Hughes's (many) mistakes on more important lines and the power play, which helps young players grow. The Rangers would not live with Laf's.

When Laf can control both sides of the neutral zone on exits and enters, then he'll get a bigger leach to make mistakes. Jack Hughes made mistakes. Turned the puck over. But he created plays. He controlled the pucks on exits out of his zone and enters in the ozone. He put on muscle. He worked on his shot. Every concern was fixed and it wasn't done during the games. It was the work he put in to be better.

 

[huerter]

Never forget when I offered a take it or leave it of Laffy being the third best player from his draft class, coming from me who is elite at take it or leave its, I was told that it was an insulting take it or leave it.

 

[JHS]

There is nothing to fix.

The scouts were wrong. His game was/isn't transferable to the NHL with his skillset and/or physical attributes.

The sooner we trade him and recoup what is left of his value, the better this team will be.

Unfortunately this is becoming really the only take that holds any validity to me. I’m genuinely convinced that this current play is not a slump, not a phase, not a lack of confidence— it’s all Laf is. How he went from a number 1 overall to a guy who looks like he’s a 3rd liner with no real noticeable skill set is not even relevant anymore. He’s just not a first overall pick anymore- he’s a guy with 4 years NHL experience.

 

[Profet]

Unfortunately this is becoming really the only take that holds any validity to me. I’m genuinely convinced that this current play is not a slump, not a phase, not a lack of confidence— it’s all Laf is. How he went from a number 1 overall to a guy who looks like he’s a 3rd liner with no real noticeable skill set is not even relevant anymore. He’s just not a first overall pick anymore- he’s a guy with 4 years NHL experience.

 

[huerter]

Couldn't imagine listening to those donks on 3.5 Thoughts. Was just listening to The Snake on with Tony and he nails it. If Laffy doesn't get the royal road gimme from Blackwell during 3 on 3 he'd still be looking for his first goal.

 

[Profet]

Lol at that video title:

Mailloux Will Get Exposed

Is that like like some Hammurabi's code justice? Or are they talking about something else?

 

[bhamill]

Let's not even talk about the fact that Bedard has shown more talent in an NHL preseason than Laf has shown in three NHL seasons.

He didn't wait to be given top line minutes. He went out and earned top line minutes.

No disagreement there. The consensus is he’s likely generational. Hed still be slotted behind 2020 Pan and Kreider here if he was a LW. The things we are saying are not mutually exclusive. I’m not trying to make the argument that Laf is anywhere near Bedard’s level. I’m saying even Bedard would have been slotted “3rd line” here…

 

[bhamill]

How are all of the people who aren’t concerned about what Laf has shown so far reacting now that the smoke that used to be contained to this board has now grown to be a full fledged international fire? Are we still pointing to the kinda ok for an NHL player ES statistics and 1OA pedigree and waiting patiently until next year?

I think everyone has degrees of concern, but some of us can actually be patient and wait to see how THIS season unfolds starting next week, rather than believing the sky is falling over a few mediocre pre season games at a new position. WILD, I know. Hahaha.

 

[Daves a mess]

May not be the worst thing. While not ideal it could,

1. Light more of a fire under Laffy.

2. Give other teams GM's an inclination to make some offers.

You can't set a wet twinkie on fire.

 

[Synergy27]

No disagreement there. The consensus is he’s likely generational. Hed still be slotted behind 2020 Pan and Kreider here if he was a LW. The things we are saying are not mutually exclusive. I’m not trying to make the argument that Laf is anywhere near Bedard’s level. I’m saying even Bedard would have been slotted “3rd line” here…

Have you given even a modicum of consideration to the idea that not all drafts are created equal? Any chance at all that the Rangers knew from day one that Laf was just an ok, never gonna be great, player and they were happy to carry the water for the league by drumming up excitement and hype for the draft? Is there any chance at all that they just never saw Laf as being better than the big, speedy, soon to be 50 goal scorer and the perennial best LW in the game they already had in the lineup so they treated him accordingly?

To assume that the same would happen with a player as skilled and dominant as Bedard is crazy.

The Rangers did not ruin Laf. They picked first in a shitty draft. That’s what happens to this franchise.

I think everyone has degrees of concern, but some of us can actually be patient and wait to see how THIS season unfolds starting next week, rather than believing the sky is falling over a few mediocre pre season games at a new position. WILD, I know. Hahaha.

Ok. So you’re signing up for THIS season. I’ve been sounding the alarm bell for three years now and can never seem to get anyone to sign up for a timeline after which it will be ok for me to be worried.

This year it is?

 

[bhamill]

When Laf-Chytil-KK score as 3rd liners how is it different then when they score as 2nd liners?

When Laf plays with Bread or Zibs does he score significantly more?

If Chytil and KK are "top 6" forwards than why are they not skilled enough to play with Laf?

Laf has played 5 preseason games. Much of which were with Zib, CK, and Bread. Was he on the 3rd line? Did he look like a better player?

I'm doing everything I can to remain hopeful for Laf but does it help to pretend he has played well in this preseason? Did he play well in last years playoffs? Laf did play well in the second half of 2021-22 and in the 2021-22 playoffs. Why can people say that but not admit he has looked pretty bad now without the nonsense about coaches telling him he is being groomed to be a 3rd liner or a grinder?

If he played with vets and got more responsibility i cant say if he would have scored more. No one knows. But it would have furthered his progress to what he will be, whether it’s what we see now or some of his upside. This isn’t some arcane concept. (Right or wrong) We haven’t given Laf or KK the consistent opportunities they’d have gotten on a bottom team. So we cant KNOW where they would be right now except further along whatever their paths are.

 

[LokiDog]

I think everyone has degrees of concern, but some of us can actually be patient and wait to see how THIS season unfolds starting next week, rather than believing the sky is falling over a few mediocre pre season games at a new position. WILD, I know. Hahaha.

Fair enough.

Here’s my only question. Literally, just the one:

What happens when someone (maybe not you) makes this EXACT same post again NEXT October 6th?

For me, THIS is the year that it’s shit or get off the pot. Always was. Preseason doesn’t mean much, but knowing this is my all or nothing year for Laf, the early indications are not good. If he has 43 points this year are we going to call that “progress every year” and have the same exact conversations one year from today? He’s only 22 (but 23 in 5 days)!!! He’s made progress every year!

As @Synergy27 said - I’ve been raising the alarm about Laf simply not having the talent we thought for a while now. Which off season will it be justified and not “too soon” and just me being a “hater” and “writing him off”?