Player Discussion Alexis Lafreniere

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Well I agree he’s more talented of course. He may be generational. But if he was a LW, he’d still be slotted behind Kreider and Pan here, no?

I actually doubt it. They’d put Kreider with Trochek and Wheeler or something and spread it out. But also, I am fairly certain - positive, actually - that the only people caring about line numbers are fans. We have three lines and a 4th line. There’s no first, second, third. The kid line got nearly identical EV minutes as the top 6. Laf already played more 5v5 minutes than Kreider last year.

Whether Bedard played next to Zib, Tro or Chytil would really be irrelevant and as long as he played like he does he’d be given even more opportunity such as PP1. So even if he started on a “kid line” getting 13:30 per night, by November it would likely be 16 per night and by January 18. Because he’s actually a 1OA talent and I’m 99.9% sure he wouldn’t fumble his opportunities or struggle because he had to play with scrubs like Chytil and Kakko (instead of scrubs like Trochek and Wheeler, like there’s even significant difference).

Laf HAS been handled poorly but he also simply doesn’t have talent on that kind of level. He has had opportunities. At least a dozen over 3 years plus this preseason and he has flubbed every single one without fail. I honestly don’t think PP1 and 18 minutes in his rookie year would have resulted in him looking much different. He’s just not dynamic in any facet at this level. Don’t be surprised if Bedard, who turned 18 in July, nearly doubles Laf’s career high this year. 60-70 points. We’ll see.
 
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Laf
Kakko - Cuylle - Wheeler
Miller

Was the PP2 unit throughout the night. I don't remember what specifically happened to PP2 during the 6 on 4 but your math aint mathing.

I might have missed this but I saw Fox on the second unit by the end of the game.
 
I actually doubt it. They’d put Kreider with Trochek and Wheeler or something and spread it out. But also, I am fairly certain - positive, actually - that the only people caring about line numbers are fans. We have three lines and a 4th line. There’s no first, second, third. The kid line got nearly identical EV minutes as the top 6. Laf already played more 5v5 minutes than Kreider last year.

Whether Bedard played next to Zib, Tro or Chytil would really be irrelevant and as long as he played like he does he’d be given even more opportunity such as PP1. So even if he started on a “kid line” getting 13:30 per night, by November it would likely be 16 per night and by January 18. Because he’s actually a 1OA talent and I’m 99.9% sure he wouldn’t fumble his opportunities or struggle because he had to play with scrubs like Chytil and Kakko (instead of scrubs like Trochek and Wheeler, like there’s even significant difference).

Laf HAS been handled poorly but he also simply doesn’t have talent on that kind of level. He has had opportunities. At least a dozen over 3 years plus this preseason and he has flubbed every single one without fail. I honestly don’t think PP1 and 18 minutes in his rookie year would have resulted in him looking much different. He’s just not dynamic in any facet at this level. I don’t be surprised if Bedard, who turned 18 in July, nearly doubles Laf’s career high this year. 60-70 points. We’ll see.

I mostly agree with this, except from the start the kids should have been mixed in with the veterans more. Especially with Kakko, there was no reason for GG to split him from Kreider and Zibanejad when that was the top line. That would have given them more exposure to creative play than being on a "don't make mistakes" "wear the other team down with your forecheck" kid line.

There was also a stint where Kreider/Trocheck/Vesey was a thing, and that's a damn good "third line" but it only lasted probably about 4 periods. Cuz GG. Even though they were great together.

Power play usage is a big deal, though, and PP1 has been IMO one of the Rangers' biggest low key issues. They really don't have a shooter now that the entire league knows they're going for the Mika one timer. Stamkos one timer works because Kucherov is also a threat to shoot/score. Ovie one timer works because Oshie knows how to get move without the puck in the bumper, unlike Trocheck, and they've had guys who could shoot at the point (like Carlson). They modeled the entire PP1 around that one timer and it really hasn't been there since January of last year. I get they didn't work on the PP during camp much, but it looked awful with the same players as last year, though to PL's credit he wasn't letting them hog up 90 seconds every power play. I really think the PP would have been stronger if one of the kids was put on the RW half circle two years ago (the role Tarasenko filled for about two weeks - very well - before Kane took his spot on PP1 and it largely went to shit again), and was left there.

We haven't seen the last of the kids, but it is really, really, hard, and really, really uncommon for players to suddenly develop offense at this point in their careers who haven't shown marked improvement. Kakko did - last year - so he might still have potential. But seeing Laf in camp, this was a make or break offseason for him, and I don't get the sense he put in the work.

And this is the part where huerter will probably respond to me going on about geometry, but PP1 is unbalanced and funnels most opportunities into one play. I don't really feel like sitting through another season of 20/93-16-10/23 passing the puck around the perimeter for 90 seconds only for Mika to take a contested one timer and have it be an easy save or puck deflected into crowd, because they literally don't have anything else in the bag of tricks and everyone knows it's coming.
 
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Our team is honestly dreadfully boring without many personalities so I spent the last leg of my drive to Dallas today listening to Buffalo Sabres video series’ because they’re a super young, exciting team and one segment was with Tage Thompson and he talked about how important adversity was in his development and how going up and down between the minors and being traded young was probably the only way for him to learn about what it really meant to work on his flaws. Obviously with the 1OA pedigree it’s a bit different but honestly Laf should have had a couple of stints in Hartford riding the bus. He’s too comfortable with that 1OA status.
 
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Our team is honestly dreadfully boring without many personalities so I spent the last leg of my drive to Dallas today listening to Sabres video series because they’re team is super young and exciting and one segment was with Tage Thompson and he talked about how important adversity was in his development and how going up and down between the minors and being traded young was probably the only way for him to learn about what it really meant to work on his flaws. Obviously with the 1OA pedigree it’s a bit different but honestly Laf should have had a couple of stints in Hartford riding the bus. He’s too comfortable with that 1OA status.
He has been handed everything, make him earn something.
 
Not with the game on the line in the third. Laf was not out there, Cuylle was. Laf was replaced by Blake Wheeler.
I mean that's wrong as well.

Last Bruins penalty was taken at 16:56 of the 3rd
Guys taking shifts to start the PP was: Lafreniere, Wheeler, Kakko, Cuylle, and Miller. Lines switched at the 17:32 mark.
 
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Bedard has done things during preseason that Kreider and Panarin couldn't dream of. Would the Rangers debacle of a development team put him on line 3? Of course. Would any other team in the league put Bedard 3 behind Panarin and Kreider? Absolutely not.
Panarin
Bedard
Kreider

Bedard 1 in a few months little by little.
I maintain the NYR WOULD 3rd line him behind Pan and Keids. Hahahaha.
 
Elliotte Friedman from 32 Thoughts on Lafreniere -

"I think there's a lot of concern about Lafrenière and what's going on there. I believe that NYR have bent over backwards to create the right environment for him. It didn't work between him and Gallant, unfortunately.

Arthur Staple had reported earlier this summer, out of the Draft, that he'd heard some rumors about Lafrenière. I heard similar, that maybe he would be out there, but NYR came back hard against that.

NYR really wanted to protect the kid and put him in the right mental frame ... to play this year. Everything they did this off-season was about how to make him comfortable ... [they] don't want to give up on him ... still young ... talented ... [they] want to make this work.

[But] people are starting to talk about, boy, he's looked really, really rough. I think you have to wait until the play starts and you see what it's like when the puck really drops, but there's a lot of people concerned about the way this is going.

I can't imagine NYR aren't a little worried about what they're seeing based on what other people are telling me ... it's gotta be really frustrating for the Rangers because they have tried to do everything to make it work for him this off-season."
 
I actually doubt it. They’d put Kreider with Trochek and Wheeler or something and spread it out. But also, I am fairly certain - positive, actually - that the only people caring about line numbers are fans. We have three lines and a 4th line. There’s no first, second, third. The kid line got nearly identical EV minutes as the top 6. Laf already played more 5v5 minutes than Kreider last year.

Whether Bedard played next to Zib, Tro or Chytil would really be irrelevant and as long as he played like he does he’d be given even more opportunity such as PP1. So even if he started on a “kid line” getting 13:30 per night, by November it would likely be 16 per night and by January 18. Because he’s actually a 1OA talent and I’m 99.9% sure he wouldn’t fumble his opportunities or struggle because he had to play with scrubs like Chytil and Kakko (instead of scrubs like Trochek and Wheeler, like there’s even significant difference).

Laf HAS been handled poorly but he also simply doesn’t have talent on that kind of level. He has had opportunities. At least a dozen over 3 years plus this preseason and he has flubbed every single one without fail. I honestly don’t think PP1 and 18 minutes in his rookie year would have resulted in him looking much different. He’s just not dynamic in any facet at this level. Don’t be surprised if Bedard, who turned 18 in July, nearly doubles Laf’s career high this year. 60-70 points. We’ll see.
Maybe he’d move up quick, maybe not. What if he missed a defensive assignment or didn’t finish a check? Hahaha. I’m not as confident as you that they would reward him by playing him more tnan Pan or Kreider. sorry.
 
Elliotte Friedman from 32 Thoughts on Lafreniere -

"I think there's a lot of concern about Lafrenière and what's going on there. I believe that NYR have bent over backwards to create the right environment for him. It didn't work between him and Gallant, unfortunately.

Arthur Staple had reported earlier this summer, out of the Draft, that he'd heard some rumors about Lafrenière. I heard similar, that maybe he would be out there, but NYR came back hard against that.

NYR really wanted to protect the kid and put him in the right mental frame ... to play this year. Everything they did this off-season was about how to make him comfortable ... [they] don't want to give up on him ... still young ... talented ... [they] want to make this work.

[But] people are starting to talk about, boy, he's looked really, really rough. I think you have to wait until the play starts and you see what it's like when the puck really drops, but there's a lot of people concerned about the way this is going.

I can't imagine NYR aren't a little worried about what they're seeing based on what other people are telling me ... it's gotta be really frustrating for the Rangers because they have tried to do everything to make it work for him this off-season."
Thanks so much for the summary. Now I do not have to listen. I believe this all because it is logical. The better Laf does the better for the organization, GM and various coaches. I think they have probably tried everything to make it work and will continue to try. Question is if Laf's ceiling is as a 25-50 guy will the team be satisfied or want to move him?
 
He has been handed everything, make him earn something.
I especially like when he was handed all that pp1 time, or even those pp2 shifts that were more than 30 seconds and started in the O zone. Hahaha. They groomed both Laf and KK as third liners. They were not handed everything.
 
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Maybe he’d move up quick, maybe not. What if he missed a defensive assignment or didn’t finish a check? Hahaha. I’m not as confident as you that they would reward him by playing him more tnan Pan or Kreider. sorry.

I don’t even believe the narrative that Laf or KK have been moved around because they miss an assignment here or there. This “they will be grinders” storyline was invented on HF. I’m almost positive the reason they get moved around the lineup is because they don’t look great anywhere you put them and they don’t produce. I’m pretty sure if Laffy looked like he was going to pace for 60-70 points during his first preseason and first month of NHL play he’d have been allowed to miss just as many assignments and checks as Panarin. And so would Bedard. The reason Laf doesn’t get even more than what he already gets is because… drum roll… he’s EXTRAORDINARILY mediocre at everything. The only thing that is above average about him is for far below average he is at every facet of the game for a 1OA.
 
He has been handed everything, make him earn something.
I especially like when he was handed all that pp1 time, or even those pp2 shifts that were more than 30 seconds and started in the O zone. Hahaha. They groomed both Laf and KK as third liners. They were not handed everything.
I don’t even believe the narrative that Laf or KK have been moved around because they miss an assignment here or there. This “they will be grinders” storyline was invented on HF. I’m almost positive the reason they get moved around the lineup is because they don’t look great anywhere you put them and they don’t produce. I’m pretty sure if Laffy looked like he was going to pace for 60-70 points during his first preseason and first month of NHL play he’d have been allowed to miss just as many assignments and checks as Panarin. And so would Bedard. The reason Laf doesn’t get even more than what he already gets is because… drum roll… he’s EXTRAORDINARILY mediocre at everything. The only thing that is above average about him is for far below average he is at every facet of the game for a 1OA.
that’s fine you don’t have to believe it. But it happened. Are you really arguing Laf wasn’t slotted in behind Pan and Chris? In any case what I was saying is it would give them pause to move him up from where they would undoubtedly originally slot him: behind Pan and Kreids.
Anyway it’s totally ”for the sake of argument” since Bedard is a C and on Chicago, a bottom team that will give him the opportunities a 1OA normally gets, so I’ll leave it at that.
 
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Just about any player is. Who on this team is irreplaceable? Fox, Shesty? Maybe Zib, Kreider and Trouba (love him or hate him there aren’t a lot of players like him)?
Sure, but I think there's a difference in replaceable where you can move a player and still find a ways to keep contending/make yourself better, or take a slight hit, and then there replaceable as in swapping this player out is very easy and to do while finding that same piece coming back.
 
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I mean that's wrong as well.

Last Bruins penalty was taken at 16:56 of the 3rd
Guys taking shifts to start the PP was: Lafreniere, Wheeler, Kakko, Cuylle, and Miller. Lines switched at the 17:32 mark.
Geez- ok I mean if we really are gonna be that specific then ok. That’s how invisible Laf was on the second PP Unit because I did not even notice him on the ice but did manage to notice Cuylle. So ok he was not replaced by Cuylle but should have been since he was useless.
 
Sure, but I think there's a difference in replaceable where you can move a player and still find a ways to keep contending/make yourself better, or take a slight hit, and then there replaceable as in swapping this player out is very easy and to do while finding that same piece coming back.
I’ll be honest, those both seem like the same thing. My point being that being “replaceable” does not mean you aren’t valuable. If you think a 21 year old who scored at about 0.5 ppg while throwing 141 hits playing with two other young players trying to find their games is not valuable, we simply disagree. If you are just saying he’s far from untouchable then we agree. As long as we get value for him.
 
I especially like when he was handed all that pp1 time, or even those pp2 shifts that were more than 30 seconds and started in the O zone. Hahaha. They groomed both Laf and KK as third liners. They were not handed everything.

that’s fine you don’t have to believe it. But it happened. Are you really arguing Laf wasn’t slotted in behind Pan and Chris? In any case what I was saying is it would give them pause to move him up from where they would undoubtedly originally slot him: behind Pan and Kreids.
Anyway it’s totally ”for the sake of argument” since Bedard is a C and on Chicago, a bottom team that will give him the opportunities a 1OA normally gets, so I’ll leave it at that.
Let's not even talk about the fact that Bedard has shown more talent in an NHL preseason than Laf has shown in three NHL seasons.

He didn't wait to be given top line minutes. He went out and earned top line minutes.
 
How are all of the people who aren’t concerned about what Laf has shown so far reacting now that the smoke that used to be contained to this board has now grown to be a full fledged international fire? Are we still pointing to the kinda ok for an NHL player ES statistics and 1OA pedigree and waiting patiently until next year?
 
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