Player Discussion Alexis Lafreniere

[will1066]

let's not focus on the fact that there were 2 D back and one got completely burned while the other just watched the play. Laf has his man covered if Lindgren does literally anything to disrupt the pass into the f***ing slot.

i gotta say the Lindgren-Schneider pairing was absolutely AIDS last night. two guys who cant move the puck and one who can't defend either.

Finally, some sense

 

[NickyFotiu]

Finally, some sense

If that is an example of Lav having his man then things just got worse. Im sure Laf himself would be honest and say he needs to do better than that.

 

[smoneil]

My narrative is that he continues to be a struggling 1OA who has 200+ games in his NHL career and the kids around him, no matter their f***ing age, continue to show improvement with something as small as the eye test in how they play. Improvement isn't dependent on age. Laf hasn't passed the improvement eye test since he started playing in the NHL. His play remains the same throughout. Points aren't everything obviously, but when you've looked mid throughout your career when even industry experts are wondering when you're going to improve, what else can you be judged on?

So you were all about stats until it was pointed out that the stats actually showed that Laf did as well or better than the other kids at the same age, so now it isn't about the stats, but about the eye test. Gotcha. Nope, no narrative here at all...

Look, I wish the team developed the kid correctly from the beginning as much as anyone. I was VERY early in pointing out the stupidity of finally getting a 1st overall pick and then...not playing him any meaningful minutes. And I'm not saying he's played at the level one would expect from a #1 pick. Hell, I'm not even saying he CAN be fixed after 3 years of this nonsense.

But none of that changes the fact that this is something the team did to Lafreniere, and that it's stupid to be upset with (to say nothing of the ongoing vengeance campaign some of y'all are engaged in) the kid when he's pretty much done what each of his coaches asked him to do.

None of that changes the fact that, were he a 2nd or 3rd round draft pick, we'd be thrilled with his production to date relative to the lack of PP time.

At the end of the day, there are two, inter-connected things people are upset about when it comes to Laf.

1- That the team f***ed up his development. There's nothing we can do about that other than hope the team learned from their mistakes should we ever get another top 3 draft pick in our lifetimes.

2- That Laf has not yet played like one would expect from a 1st overall pick (again, connected to issue 1). That seems to be your gripe. To which I say...get over yourself. Where a player was picked matters less and less the further away from the draft you get. Laf is close enough to his draft that it's worth trying to right the ship after three years of development f***ery. But even then, the clock is ticking. And if it gets to the point that we need to decide that we're never getting the player Laf could have been, then we need to get comfortable with the player he is, which is still an excellent 3rd liner who can play up the lineup in a pinch. You whinging about Laf not playing like a properly and fully developed 1st overall pick would be like Laf still holding out for not getting paid like a properly and fully developed 1st overall pick. The draft was a while ago. Get over it and support the player/team that you've got.

 

[LokiDog]

Jiminy Christmas, the move Bedard just pulled without scoring is at least as slick as anything any of our kids have ever done. Why are we cursed? Not even focusing on Laf or usage or pedigree. Just… why couldn’t we have been a lottery winner when a Bedard, Matthews, Eichel, etc was on the board. Sheesh. It’s Petry and Edvinsson on D. One is a reputable older NHL vet and one is an NHL ready top prospect.

 

[Crease]

What you’re seeing is anger from fans who feel this season is Laf’s last chance to prove he can become a franchise player, and he comes out playing like this. Let us get it out of our system before we accept he’s forever mid, which, yes, is still useful I guess.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Jiminy Christmas, the move Bedard just pulled without scoring is at least as slick as anything any of our kids have ever done. Why are we cursed? Not even focusing on Laf or usage or pedigree. Just… why couldn’t we have been a lottery winner when a Bedard, Matthews, Eichel, etc was on the board. Sheesh.

He is shifty, aggressive and fun to watch. I disagree with people putting him at McDavid/Crosby level but I still wish we had him

 

[NickyFotiu]

Its a new season. I think we should all consider giving Laf a clean slate of 40 games with our new coaches. Im concerned but I really want the kid to do well. Its not like he is a bad kid. Remember how good it felt in the 2022 playoffs. Hopefully we get pleasantly surprised.

 

[LokiDog]

He is shifty, aggressive and fun to watch. I disagree with people putting him at McDavid/Crosby level but I still wish we had him

I mean, I obviously withhold crowning him as being at that level until we get to see his first year, but he certainly looks like someone who is going to challenge the Hughes, Eichel, Pettersson, Matthews, Marner types of the league who are all top 10 offensive players. Will he be the best of his decade like Sid or Connor? Tough call, but he clearly looks like an a kid who is going to step right in and make an impact on most shifts. He also literally turned 18 like 8 weeks or so ago. Laf turned 19 like 2 weeks into his rookie year. Bedard is definitely leaving little question he will at least be a really dynamic and dangerous player.

 

[NickyFotiu]

I mean, I obviously withhold crowning him as being at that level until we get to see his first year, but he certainly looks like someone who is going to challenge the Hughes, Eichel, Pettersson, Matthews, Marner types of the league who are all top 10 offensive players. Will he be the best of his decade like Sid or Connor? Tough call, but he clearly looks like an a kid who is going to step right in and make an impact on most shifts. He also literally turned 18 like 8 weeks or so ago. Laf turned 19 like 2 weeks into his rookie year. Bedard is definitely leaving little question he will at least be a really dynamic and dangerous player.

I think he will definitely be a fun exciting player. I just think people putting him at McDavid and Crosby level are getting carried away. McDavid is much bigger and faster. Crosby is stronger. Nothing wrong with being in that next level group that you mentioned. What I like about Conor and Hughes is they are fun to watch. Hockey needs more fun to watch players.

 

[ReddestRum]

Jiminy Christmas, the move Bedard just pulled without scoring is at least as slick as anything any of our kids have ever done. Why are we cursed? Not even focusing on Laf or usage or pedigree. Just… why couldn’t we have been a lottery winner when a Bedard, Matthews, Eichel, etc was on the board. Sheesh. It’s Petry and Edvinsson on D. One is a reputable older NHL vet and one is an NHL ready top prospect.

Hawks getting shit on 0-5 and Bedard still confident enough to pull shit like this off surrounding by Wings.

I guess if we can blame Laf's failures on the coaching staff not force feeding him minutes he doesn't deserve, development coaches for not giving him roids to make him go faster, and his teammates for not finishing so he can get his secondary assist than I suppose it goes the same way when it comes to players like Bedard. It's not so much as his skill as it is his coaches. If Bedard pans out during his career, I hope those coaches go into the HoF.

 

[LokiDog]

I think he will definitely be a fun exciting player. I just think people putting him at McDavid and Crosby level are getting carried away. McDavid is much bigger and faster. Crosby is stronger. Nothing wrong with being in that next level group that you mentioned. What I like about Conor and Hughes is they are fun to watch. Hockey needs more fun to watch players.

Eh, McDavid is 2 inches and 10lbs bigger at 26 years old. Bedard just turned 18 mid July. Crosby is like the same height and 15+ pounds heavier but Bedard can definitely get there and actually already has a really strong lower body and is pretty strong in general. I wouldn’t be surprised if he ends up in that tier. But I would be surprised if he ends up lower than the Matthews/Hughes tier.

 

[ReddestRum]

I think he will definitely be a fun exciting player. I just think people putting him at McDavid and Crosby level are getting carried away. McDavid is much bigger and faster. Crosby is stronger. Nothing wrong with being in that next level group that you mentioned. What I like about Conor and Hughes is they are fun to watch. Hockey needs more fun to watch players.

He's reminding me of Zegras as well. The only fun and creative player to watch on THE bottom feeder team in the NHL on the Ducks. Not to mention he managed 61 points doing it too.

 

[Leonardo87]

He's reminding me of Zegras as well. The only fun and creative player to watch on THE bottom feeder team in the NHL on the Ducks. Not to mention he managed 61 points doing it too.

Don’t sleep on Leo, picked up his first assist. On a Strome goal. Yup a Strome goal. Lol.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Eh, McDavis is 2 inches and 10lbs bigger at 26 years old. Bedard just turned 18 mid July. Crosby is like the same height and 15+ pounds heavier but Bedard can definitely get there and actually already has a really strong lower body and is pretty strong in general. I wouldn’t be surprised if he ends up in that tier. But I would be surprised if he ends up lower than the Matthews/Hughes tier.

Id be very surprised if he gets to McDavid/Crosby level but I hope Im wrong. The more great players the better. I think McDavid is more than 2 inches and 10 pounds bigger but we will see as the season goes along. I like Bedards quickness and skating but he isn't as strong as skater as McDavid.

 

[BBKers]

New York New York, big city of dreams
And everything in New York ain't always what it seems
You might get fooled if you come from out of town
But I'm down by law and I know my way around

Too much, too many people, too much
Too much, too many people, too much...

 

[NYR94]

Don’t sleep on Leo, picked up his first assist. On a Strome goal. Yup a Strome goal. Lol.

Carlsson, Bedard and Fantilli this year got me hyped when I would otherwise have little interest in watching those teams.

 

[LokiDog]

New York New York, big city of dreams
And everything in New York ain't always what it seems
You might get fooled if you come from out of town
But I'm down by law and I know my way around

Too much, too many people, too much
Too much, too many people, too much...

1up:

Subway she is a porno
And the pavements they are a mess
I know you've supported me for a long time
Somehow I'm not impressed
It's up to me now turn on the bright lights
Oh, it's up to me now turn on the bright lights
New York cares (got to be some more change in my life)
New York cares (got to be some more change in my life)

 

[LokiDog]

Carlsson, Bedard and Fantilli this year got me hyped when I would otherwise have little interest in watching those teams.

Fantilli might be Columbus’ best chance of relevancy ever. Not that he’s necessarily better than Nash was, though he may be, but on top of their other recent drafting he really represents their strongest hope. Bedard could be Matthews like. Fantilli could be Kopitar or Bergeron-lite like.

 

[Leonardo87]

Carlsson, Bedard and Fantilli this year got me hyped when I would otherwise have little interest in watching those teams.

Carlsson is going to take a little time to get going he is still growing into his body, but see his potential to be Kopitar/Getzlaf level, maybe even higher. Also has a little Malkin in his game. He is so smart on the puck. This is one of the reasons why Verbeek doesn’t want to throw 1C money at Zegras.

 

[smoneil]

Jiminy Christmas, the move Bedard just pulled without scoring is at least as slick as anything any of our kids have ever done. Why are we cursed? Not even focusing on Laf or usage or pedigree. Just… why couldn’t we have been a lottery winner when a Bedard, Matthews, Eichel, etc was on the board. Sheesh. It’s Petry and Edvinsson on D. One is a reputable older NHL vet and one is an NHL ready top prospect.

This one wasn't half bad.

 

[ReddestRum]

This one wasn't half bad.

Neither was this one.



Anyone got anymore of Laf dangling the D?

 

[LokiDog]

This one wasn't half bad.

No, and was definitely the first one I thought of. The Bedard move is still more impressive to me, and the fact that he’s barely turned 18 and is testing NHL level defense for the first time (second game) in his life carries some weight for me, but…

My point hasn’t ever been about flashy single plays. We can google genuinely mind boggling highlights from people like Miles Wood or sick breakaway goals from Brendan Smith - the whole NHL is capable these days. What’s significant to me with the Bedard highlight is that it’s the 4th or 5th of its kind in just 2 games ever, and the reason that’s significant to me is that, in 2023 when even Ryan Reeves and Milan Lucic CAN score highlight reel, between the leg goals, it’s the frequency that a player brings you out of your seat and shows that he’s a threat that is usually a good indicator of their success.

There’s a lot of ways to do that - as a finisher like Zib or Ovie, or in tight finisher like Robertson, or as a dangler like Marner, or a full-ice rusher like Makar or McDavid. The point is simply that even if Ovie only converted at 50% of his current rate, you’d still know the guy was good for 25-30 goals with a LETHAL one timer. When a player shows these types of flashes with absolute normalcy, as if this is simply the way the game is played when they’re on the ice, that generally indicates they’re a special player.

The Laf goal was awesome. Chytil hit a Forsberg one-handed in tight that I loved. I appreciate these goals, but we’re in an era where most players who make it to the NHL are capable of pulling off a move like that. It’s the players who are in the right time/place and have the skill to attempt these things 3+ times per game that you know you have a truly special player. Bedard has been able to vote for 60 days and has been doing this 2-3-4 times per appearance. Laf has done it a handful of times in 4 years.

 

[Profet]

Neither was this one.



Anyone got anymore of Laf dangling the D?

Pretty sure that was both times it ever happened.

One of which was against a forward.

Are we happy that Laf has the same number of NHL highlight reels as Bedard (counting pre-season obviously)?

What are we trying to prove?

 

[DanielBrassard]

Jiminy Christmas, the move Bedard just pulled without scoring is at least as slick as anything any of our kids have ever done. Why are we cursed? Not even focusing on Laf or usage or pedigree. Just… why couldn’t we have been a lottery winner when a Bedard, Matthews, Eichel, etc was on the board. Sheesh. It’s Petry and Edvinsson on D. One is a reputable older NHL vet and one is an NHL ready top prospect.

That was absolutely Bedarded

 

[smoneil]

No, and was definitely the first one I thought of. The Bedard move is still more impressive to me, and the fact that he’s barely turned 18 and is testing NHL level defense for the first time (second game) in his life Carrie’s some wait for me, but…

My point hasn’t ever been about flashy single plays. We can google genuinely mind boggling highlights from people like Miles Wood or sick breakaway goals from Brendan Smith - the whole NHL is capable these days. What’s significant to me with the Bedard highlight is that it’s the 4th or 5th of its kind in just 2 games ever, and the reason that’s significant to me is that, in 2023 when even Ryan Reeves and Milan Lucic CAN score highlight reel, between the leg goals, it’s the frequency that a player brings you out of your seat and shows that he’s a threat that is usually a good indicator of their success.

There’s a lot of ways to do that - as a finisher like Zib or Ovie, or in tight finisher like Robertson, or as a dangler like Marner, or a full-ice rusher like Makar or McDavid. The point is simply that even if Ovie only converted at 50% of his current rate, you’d still know the guy was good for 25-30 goals with a LETHAL one timer. When a player shows these types of flashes with absolute normalcy, as if this is simply the way the game is played when they’re on the ice, that generally indicates they’re a special player.

The Laf goal was awesome. Chytil hit a Forsberg one-handed in tight that I loved. I appreciate these goals, but we’re in an era where most players who make it to the NHL are capable of pulling off a move like that. It’s the players who are in the right time/place and have the skill to attempt these things 3+ times per game that you know you have a truly special player. Bedard has been able to vote for 60 days and has been doing this 2-3-4 times per appearance. Laf has done it a handful of times in 4 years.

To be clear, I'm not claiming that any of our kids are on the level of Bedard, but the two key components to making plays like that are talent and balls. You're right that most players have the talent to pull stuff like this from time to time (see Malik shootout goal). But top guys have the balls to go for it regularly. That's my entire point. Quinn and later GG cut Laf's balls off and turned him into a support player whose only job was to not screw up. He needs to get the space to screw up without being insta-benched. He needs to be leaned on to win the game, rather than to not lose the game. He needs to be on the ice in those kinds of moments/situations, and it isn't going to happen quickly. It took 3 years to kill the kid's confidence. It isn't going to be restored in 3 games. It might not even be possible. But the potential payoff is worth the gamble. He (and players like him) need to have that pressure and responsibility to thrive. Same reason I don't want Othmann up if he's going to be on the 3rd line. He's got less talent than Laf, but he still has that drive to be THE guy that gets it done. We shouldn't take that away from him just to bolster the current bottom six.


EDIT: This last part is not directed at you LokiDog. I added it as a separate post and the forum auto-merged it with my response to you.

I swear to god this feels like the Devils forum sometimes. There are way too many people who are only here because of how much they love to hate this team. It's tiresome.