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Player Discussion Alexis Lafreniere

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Finding oneself, finding a comfort zone, unlocking intrinsic motivation, all of that applies to all athletes. But not all athletes are equal in these, and a lot of times, it is simply a chemistry thing. Laf has looked most comfortable with Kakko and Chytil. Kakko has looked most comfortable with Chytil and Laf. It's been a day-and-night difference when they're not playing on the same line. Genetics play a part too. Almost no hockey peer can go as hard as Kreider in the gym. Now, we all want Laf to go as hard as he can, obviously. And maybe he isn't, or maybe he is. There are just a lot of other things at work than just gym effort. Where is his head at? My theory is that he can't process the quickness of the NHL game. Different than pace. I see that he is positionally ok in the offensive zone, but the little micro events, the plays within the plays, is where he seems, for lack of a better word, limp. It appears as lazy. Semantics.
 
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will1066 said:
Finding oneself, finding a comfort zone, unlocking intrinsic motivation, all of that applies to all athletes. But not all athletes are equal in these, and a lot of times, it is simply a chemistry thing. Laf has looked most comfortable with Kakko and Chytil. Kakko has looked most comfortable with Chytil and Laf. It's been a day-and-night difference when they're not playing on the same line. Genetics play a part too. Almost no hockey peer can go as hard as Kreider in the gym. Now, we all want Laf to go as hard as he can, obviously. And maybe he isn't, or maybe he is. There are just a lot of other things at work than just gym effort. Where is his head at? My theory is that he can't process the quickness of the NHL game. Different than pace. I see that he is positionally ok in the offensive zone, but the little micro events, the plays within the plays, is where he seems, for lack of a better word, limp. It appears as lazy. Semantics.
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Yeah honetly kinda agree which is concerning in the end
 
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Levitate said:
Yeah I dunno if that is really "effort" and "trying" though, versus something about those times and situations just clicked for him and he's struggled to find that same state of mind. He doesn't seem to consistently have that confidence to hold onto the puck and make plays and do things versus what seems like just trying to move the puck off to someone else quickly.

I do think he's trying but I also feel like he's watching the play a lot and struggling to fit into it for whatever reason. Then sometimes it works. Then it doesn't.
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Was the back check last night trying? We as fans can fool ourselves if we choose but I believe the coaches we have now can see who is actually working hard. I supported Laf hard in the second half of 2020-21 because he was putting in the effort. Last season his effort level dropped imo. His playoff effort was really a disappointment imo. I want Laf to be great but even if he can't be great put in that effort. Sidney Crosby is in his late 30s and has had multiple injuries. If you throw a puck on the ice will a 22 year old Laf outwork a 37 year old Crosby to come away with it? Hopefully these coaches can create some urgency for him.
 
Bacon Artemi Bravo said:
He showed elite playmaking and passing ability, for sure. He was able to control play, wanted the puck on his stick and was able to consistency create offense. The difference is, so far in the NHL he looks like he's playing hot potato and does not have the same confidence to try and make plays. I think he actually looks utterly and completely different in the NHL. Perhaps there is some skill in particular you are referring to but it was his overall offensive instinct / vision and compete that brought him great success.
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I think we're both right. To your point, you don't rack up that many points in juniors without talent. The talent he used in juniors simply hasn't translated to the NHL. Derek Stepan was a good example of a guy who didn't have great physical attributes or soft skills but still managed to be a very good hockey player at the NHL level because of his IQ and ability to read the NHL game. Laf has Stepan's physical attributes and soft skills but Julien Gauthier's brain.
 
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will1066 said:
Finding oneself, finding a comfort zone, unlocking intrinsic motivation, all of that applies to all athletes. But not all athletes are equal in these, and a lot of times, it is simply a chemistry thing. Laf has looked most comfortable with Kakko and Chytil. Kakko has looked most comfortable with Chytil and Laf. It's been a day-and-night difference when they're not playing on the same line. Genetics play a part too. Almost no hockey peer can go as hard as Kreider in the gym. Now, we all want Laf to go as hard as he can, obviously. And maybe he isn't, or maybe he is. There are just a lot of other things at work than just gym effort. Where is his head at? My theory is that he can't process the quickness of the NHL game. Different than pace. I see that he is positionally ok in the offensive zone, but the little micro events, the plays within the plays, is where he seems, for lack of a better word, limp. It appears as lazy. Semantics.
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For me, I get the sense that it is more the fear of failure that is haunting him. Perhaps its a coaching thing, I am not sure. These guys need to attempt to make plays, fail, calibrate and learn, then apply and adjust. He's failing by default off the bat because he's not even trying to make plays. He's just deferring and playing it safe over and over. It's a mentality. I think about Jack Hughes. He failed a lot early in his career. There were whispers of how good he could actually be. He learned, adapted and adjusted and now look at him.
 
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I don’t think anyone thinks Laf “isn’t trying”.

I think what some of us are suggesting is that, you take two 12 year old hockey players who both want to go play juniors or college or pro. Of course they both TRY hard at practice and in games.

But one goes home after practice, plays some video games, eats some pizza, maybe takes some slap shots in his driveway for 30 minutes, scrolls some Instagram until midnight and shows up to practice again the next day.

The other goes home after practice and spends an hour stick handling a golf ball while keeping his eyes up, eats salmon, broccoli, rice, goes to sleep early and shows up to practice.

They’re both trying their hardest in practice and in games. They both want the same thing too. The difference isn’t whether or not one is “trying”, it’s that one of them is consumed and driven and understands that you need to do more. More than your teammates. More than the guys at the next level. More than the guys on the next team. More than the guys who made the NHL 5 years ago because the game is rapidly changing.

I don’t think anyone believes Laf isn’t trying. I think some can very easily imagine that Laf is NOT the type to put in the extra work. He is not consumed by a goal of being a star. He seems content being one of the guys and living the NHL lifestyle - already affording more than most will ever dream of - living the life of a rich 21 year old in NYC.

It’s not that he’s not trying. It’s that he seems to think “doing your best” at practice is all it takes and like he doesn’t want to sacrifice video games and pizza and parties to excel. Key word is SEEMS. No one is saying this is facts. It’s questioning whether he has the commitment level - the internal drive - to be an impact player at this level. Yes, he’s trying for sure. Of course he is, it would be crazy to suggest otherwise. But he just may not have that gear. He doesn’t seem like the type to stay at the rink for hours after practice. Jagr used to have the keys to the training facility so he could skate to his heart’s content. Bedard is in his first training camp staying on the ice over an hour after practice, alone, shooting. Kreider and Eichel and MacKinnon are nuts about hitting the gym and optimizing nutrition. Some guys just have that work ethic. Some guys realize they aren’t MacKinnon or Eichel level talents so they have to put in the extra effort. Some guys just don’t have that level of dedication.

For me, Laf either peaked early due to a mature physical stature against juniors and simply isn’t talented enough, or he’s like Daigle and hockey just isn’t the thing he is most dedicated to in his life. Or both.
 
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Bacon Artemi Bravo said:
For me, I get the sense that it is more the fear of failure that is haunting him. Perhaps its a coaching thing, I am not sure. These guys need to attempt to make plays, fail, calibrate and learn, then apply and adjust. He's failing by default off the bat because he's not even trying to make plays. He's just deferring and playing it safe over and over. It's a mentality. I think about Jack Hughes. He failed a lot early in his career. There were whispers of how good he could actually be. He learned, adapted and adjusted and now look at him.
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I do agree. But this also applied to Kakko. They both went into an environment full of veteran, talented players. There's no reason their mentality can't rebound under Laviolette. Yeah, Quinn and Gallant messed them up, but it shouldn't be permanent psychosis. I just can't agree that they've been "ruined" by a couple of years of coaching when they've played the game most of their lives.
 
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will1066 said:
I do agree. But this also applied to Kakko. They both went into an environment full of veteran, talented players. There's no reason their mentality can't rebound under Laviolette. Yeah, Quinn and Gallant messed them up, but it shouldn't be permanent psychosis. I just can't agree that they've been "ruined" by a couple of years of coaching when they've played the game most of their lives.
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I agree. Theyre grown men. We all have shit we need to get through to reach our potential. That is a fact of life. There is no easy road. A shitty coach is not an excuse to ruin your entire career. Ultimately, it's in their hands.

Mike in Houston said:
Preseason or not is no excuse for this shitty backchecking effort.

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Very bad look. No excuse for that
 
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Mike in Houston said:
Preseason or not is no excuse for this shitty backchecking effort.

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It looks like Laf made the correct read? He's the forward coming back. What the hell is Lindgren doing? LAFONYAY goes to the Isles player crossing the blue line. Lindgren should read that; it is happening directly in front of him. Also, he has blinders on and doesn't see Pageau breaking. Lindgren continues to drift over, LAFONYAY sees this and that's when he changes his target to Pageau and tries to catch up with him.

I will say he coasted two strides and that cost him. It is maybe a communication issue or a system issue between Lindgren and LAFONYAY.
 
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will1066 said:
Finding oneself, finding a comfort zone, unlocking intrinsic motivation, all of that applies to all athletes. But not all athletes are equal in these, and a lot of times, it is simply a chemistry thing. Laf has looked most comfortable with Kakko and Chytil. Kakko has looked most comfortable with Chytil and Laf. It's been a day-and-night difference when they're not playing on the same line. Genetics play a part too. Almost no hockey peer can go as hard as Kreider in the gym. Now, we all want Laf to go as hard as he can, obviously. And maybe he isn't, or maybe he is. There are just a lot of other things at work than just gym effort. Where is his head at? My theory is that he can't process the quickness of the NHL game. Different than pace. I see that he is positionally ok in the offensive zone, but the little micro events, the plays within the plays, is where he seems, for lack of a better word, limp. It appears as lazy. Semantics.
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Let's take Dallas' Robertson as an example as Lokidog used. Rob is not a great skater but it's clear he knows exactly what he wants to do even as the play develops. He also has a personal coach that he goes through every game with and analysis everything good and bad, iirc he also has pre-game chats with this coach. He's had that coach for years going back to before his NHL pro years. Laf has been coasting off his skill level/talent is my bet. And now he has to adjust mentally which is on him.

Kakko had some chemistry with Cuylle and Othmann also I thought.
 
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Teammates know who is working and who is not working. Hard work is contagious as is not working hard (sadly). If guys on the bench see hard work they will cheer it. They will be screaming good job way to work. Laf is not the only Ranger I see not working hard at times. I was amazed at how many Rangers I saw coasting in the playoffs. We went 7 games but the effort was ridiculous in many of those games by a handful of players.
 
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will1066 said:
It looks like Laf made the correct read? He's the forward coming back. What the hell is Lindgren doing? LAFONYAY goes to the Isles player crossing the blue line. Lindgren should read that; it is happening directly in front of him. Also, he has blinders on and doesn't see Pageau breaking. Lindgren continues to drift over, LAFONYAY sees this and that's when he changes his target to Pageau and tries to catch up with him.

I will say he coasted two strides and that cost him. It is maybe a communication issue or a system issue between Lindgren and LAFONYAY.
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Yeah defensemen really screwed that whole play up as well. Was the end of a long shift for Laf too but I also get that he could have been there as well

I get the criticism, there might be other factors, and we see that stuff happen in the NHL a lot to lots of players
I’m happy to get on him to do better but we should probably also be shaking our heads at Schneider and lindgren on that play
 
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I can't believe people are making excuses for Laf on that play. Laf literally coasted 120 feet. Maybe people around Laf making excuses for that kind of effort is the reason he is not becoming a better player? If I was a NYR coach I would sit in a meeting with Laf and have that play on a video non stop in the background for the full meeting till Laf got the hint.
 
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come 10-15 years later there are going to be more ex-nhl players popping up with their own podcasts on the web. maybe one or two of them have been with the rangers within the past 3 years. maybe we'll hear what was behind the scenes regarding 13 and kk.
 
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Mac n Gs said:
Elliotte Friedman was postulating that this was basically and 1+1 type of contract for Laf when he and Marek were discussing the Rangers a week or so ago. The deal is cheap for the Rangers this year and cheap for the team next year if they need to find a new home for him.
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I think I posted those exact words when he signed the contract
 
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Mike in Houston said:
Here is the full shift.... Doesn't look to me that he's expending a lot of energy to be gassed but I don't know. And many of the Islander forwards are out there for about the same amount of time, no?

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Was a bit of a long shift but ........ Anyway that one play is not my overall concern. I'm more concerned by the skating in general. He moves his legs with very little results. So little burst. It is almost like when I would try to fake it by exaggerating my leg movement for coaches in practice. If I was a coach I would have a sit down with Laf with videos. I would ask what he pictures his strengths as because I would like to find out what kind of player he identifies himself as. I'm not going to lie. I'm concerned. I think the next 40 games could be a make it or break it for Laf as a Ranger. I have never said that for a guy 22 years old. He is a big guy. Maybe he can lean in to that for his game?
 
bobbop said:
I think we are going to be hearing rumors about a trade request soon


From the wonderful folks who brought you Pavel Brendl
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I recall Neil Smith giving an interview years after the Brendl pick saying ( I'm paraphrasing here), at Pavels first rookie practice, that he was shocked at how bad Brendl looked on the ice. He was slow, out of shape, couldn't hit the net on his shot etc. So bad that Neil thought that the Ranger staff was playing a prank on him and put some scrub on the ice in his jersey to mess with him.

After he was reassured that it wasn't a joke he was deeply concerned from day 1. And it didn't get better.
 
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Daves a mess said:
I recall Neil Smith giving an interview years after the Brendl pick saying ( I'm paraphrasing here), at Pavels first rookie practice, that he was shocked at how bad Brendl looked on the ice. He was slow, out of shape, couldn't hit the net on his shot etc. So bad that Neil thought that the Ranger staff was playing a prank on him and put some scrub on the ice in his jersey to mess with him.

After he was reassured that it wasn't a joke he was deeply concerned from day 1. And it didn't get better.
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At the draft they mentioned Mike Bossy as a comparison to Brendl. That got me so excited by that draft pick. He was so good in juniors. What a horrible let down. He never could do anything in the NHL. Went to Europe and had some good years. Played until a few years ago.
 
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will1066 said:
It is concerning. But the team extended him 2 years at a fair price. Like you said, they're taking the patient route with him, unlike here online. He's got a bit more time.
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They had no other option. Drury would be a fool to offer a long term deal. A mid summer trade for a lowball offer?
He's completley flatlined in his trajectory.
He's a 3rd line NHL winger.
Mike in Houston said:
Preseason or not is no excuse for this shitty backchecking effort.

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That back check makes me livid. Embarrassing.
 
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