Player Discussion Alexis Lafreniere

[ORRFForever]

As someone who has been rooting for this kid forever, reading these posts are heartbreaking. How the heck can he NOT be getting better (or trying)?

 

[haohmaru]

Still extremely early but I echo everything Loki has been saying.

It’s actually a little crazy right now. He is better than this. I wonder if the pressure is getting to him.

That lazy backcheck where he stopped skating that resulted in an Isles goal wasn’t about pressure. It was about will. Or lack thereof.

Pressure to produce? Maybe. The way you fight through that is doing everything else with prejudice. He doesn’t.

 

[ReddestRum]

Plenty of guys want the NHL and don't have the drive to be elite even though they could be. Plenty of guys are complacent when they get to this pampered level. Laffy never had to earn anything post draft, he was handed everything here, yet you have a guy like bedard saying he need to make the team and refusing to wear to jersey until it's official. The lack of any noticeable improvement to even a single individual skill now in 4 camps should tell you all you need to know.

This kid is 18 and his work ethic tells you everything you need to know about how bad he wants to be a great in this league. From letting the Hawks media know not to step on the logo in the locker room during a news conference, to putting the work in (and I'm sure no COACH in his org is telling him to practice AFTER practice), you can tell the dude is headed for some great seasons ahead of him.

 

[ORRFForever]

The fastest he skates is when he goes to the bench on a line change.

I'm ashamed to say that made me laugh.

 

[Synergy27]

Othmann has 2 goals in 3 preseason games. It's preseason, yes, but if (emphasis on if) Othmann can come here and tangibly produce, it's going to blow the doors off the theories that the Rangers somehow wronged Lafreniere or that he's inherently limited because he's not a great skater.

Nah man. Othmann is just trying harder because he needs to impress people and Laf doesn’t.

 

[will1066]

I think this is kind of the crux of the entire Laf debate really.

If you believe Laf wants to bust you’re just a silly person.

If you believe that he just doesn’t have it, matured at a young age, can’t exceed the pace of play from junior - to the same effect, at least - than you don’t expect improvement. That’s regardless of whether speculating about his fitness or commitment has any merit at all.

If you believe that he does have it, and he just needs more confidence, powerplay time, consistency, coaching, whatever it is that you think will help, hopefully you see something tangible that gives you reason to believe it. Correlation doesn’t always equal causation - the lack of PP usage or consistent linemates doesn’t necessarily mean it’s been the cause of poor performance.

If you believe Laf just doesn’t have it, then you believe he’ll bust regardless or feel that even as a 50 point player he’s a disappointment. In that case, the question is whether you can get value for him before other teams write him off? If you believe he’ll bust or max out as a 50ish point vanilla player “eventually” than you can get something that has the potential to be more valuable or helpful to the team than Laf is going to be in the next 2 or 3 years?

Even if he goes on to exceed the adjusted projections we now have for him here, isn’t what matters more whether or not he’s going to do that in NY, when he’s going to do it and whether or not it’s what is best for us with regards to the ages of our entire under 30 D core, Shesterkin and the key pieces at forward that we have. The goal is to win. Laf isn’t on an ELC anymore so we don’t have the benefit of cheap elite talent, unless it’s right now on this year of this deal.

So if Laf isn’t going to help us get there by being here, maybe he can help us get there by being traded somewhere else.

I don't (& others don't I'm sure) want him to bust & know he doesn't want that.

BUT at this point it does feel like he's ok with what's going on in his career.

Has he taken steps? Outside of showing up to practices... meetings... pre-season games?

Is he hitting the gym... ask to hire a skating coach... worked on his shot... worked in the offseason... worked before or after practice with anyone? Vets or special coaches?

These are honest questions.

If your only desire is to cash an NHL check... he's doing a fantastic job.

Otherwise he's an abject FAIL

Who knows really? I like to joke about him as much as anyone. But jokes aside, it's all speculation. We don't know what's going on in his world. He doesn't show videos of himself, so it means he's not working hard? At the same time, he could be working his hammy off but it's not translating in real game play, because like others said, maybe he has peaked. I wish hockey IQ were a real quantifiable science.

The other thing we tend to forget is, once he's in that room, no one gives two shits either way that he was the overall first pick. He's just a member of that team. Only civilians like us and the media talk in the language of draft rankings and all types of other metrics because they help us put things in categories.

 

[Synergy27]

This kid is 18 and his work ethic tells you everything you need to know about how bad he wants to be a great in this league. From letting the Hawks media know not to step on the logo in the locker room during a news conference, to putting the work in (and I'm sure no COACH in his org is telling him to practice AFTER practice), you can tell the dude is headed for some great seasons ahead of him.

Again, you’re (not you) telling me that MSG wouldn’t be cranking out the puff pieces if this kid was doing literally ANYTHING extra? He’s happy to be here. That ain’t going to be close to enough.

 

[LokiDog]

Who knows really? I like to joke about him as much as anyone. But jokes aside, it's all speculation. We don't know what's going on in his world. He doesn't show videos of himself, so it means he's not working hard? At the same time, he could be working his hammy off but it's not translating in real game play, because like others said, maybe he has peaked. I wish hockey IQ were a real quantifiable science.

The other thing we tend to forget is, once he's in that room, no one gives two shits either way that he was the overall first pick. He's just a member of that team. Only civilians like us and the media talk in the language of draft rankings and all types of other metrics because they help us put things in categories.

Agreed, but regarding that last part, I would tend to have a caveat - at some point on a team of players occupying a starting, likely even top nine spot, in the highest level league in the world, trying to win a Cup, a player not pulling his weight or being capable of doing so eventually causes some internal strife regarding how many chances we’re gonna give to this guy based on his draft pedigree.

Because there are guys like Athanasiou, Freddy Gaudreau, etc. who will also give you 40+ points while on a 2M short term deal and come out flying and give you better bang for your buck in the short term. And there are guys like Otthman and Cullye, and hopefully soon Sykora and Berard, happy to take that spot from you. And I’d take a sound wager that Trouba and Shesterkin want to win in their prime more than they care if Laf is given EVERY opportunity to succeed.

Do you think Hank, in 2015, would be heart broken if they traded poor, innocent 21 year old 1OA Laffy too prematurely? If it had helped bring back an Eichel or Zegras or the pick that was used on Beniers, MacTavish or Kent Johnson? Or Logan Cooley? These guys want to win. Yes, the room is a family but eventually if you’re only on the roster because of your draft status and the organization’s sunk costs, the players resent it a bit, even if it’s not outward. It’s a strain on the room. The vibes are off. And it be like that.

 

[will1066]

Agreed, but regarding that last part, I would tend to have a caveat - at some point on a team of players occupying a starting, likely even top nine spot, in the highest level league in the world, trying to win a Cup, a player not pulling his weight or being capable of doing so eventually causes some internal strife regarding how many chances we’re gonna give to this guy based on his draft pedigree.

Because there are guys like Athanasiou, Freddy Gaudreau, etc. who will also give you 40+ points while on a 2M short term deal and come out flying and give you better bang for your buck in the short term. And there are guys like Otthman and Cullye, and hopefully soon Sykora and Berard, happy to take that spot from you. And I’d take a sound wager that Trouba and Shesterkin want to win in their prime more than they care if Laf is given EVERY opportunity to succeed.

That's the thing though. We feel he's not pulling his weight. Maybe the organization is still ok, however. The contract extension obviously left money on the table. They're paying him what they feel he's worth. Laf knows he left money on the table. But we will know if and when the organization cuts bait that they've given up.

 

[LORDE]

Who knows really? I like to joke about him as much as anyone. But jokes aside, it's all speculation. We don't know what's going on in his world. He doesn't show videos of himself, so it means he's not working hard? At the same time, he could be working his hammy off but it's not translating in real game play, because like others said, maybe he has peaked. I wish hockey IQ were a real quantifiable science.

The other thing we tend to forget is, once he's in that room, no one gives two shits either way that he was the overall first pick. He's just a member of that team. Only civilians like us and the media talk in the language of draft rankings and all types of other metrics because they help us put things in categories.

Hey I completely agree.

In fact I always assert that once you're selected... THAT IS IT

You went 1st. I dont care. Show me.

You went 7th round? I don't care. SHOW ME

What has he shown us?

Honest question. Not being sarcastic. What?

 

[will1066]

Hey I completely agree.

In fact I always assert that once you're selected... THAT IS IT

You went 1st. I dont care. Show me.

You went 7th round? I don't care. SHOW ME

What has he shown us?

Honest question. Not being sarcastic. What?

Two full seasons. 31 and 39 points respectively. Technically, that's an improvement. By our expectations, woefully inadequate. However, it's not what we think, at the end of the day, it's the organization and the timeline they've got for him. Getting a look on RW because there are others ahead of him on LW. They're trying.

 

[LORDE]

Two full seasons. 31 and 39 points respectively. Technically, that's an improvement. By our expectations, woefully inadequate. However, it's not what we think, at the end of the day, it's the organization and the timeline they've got for him. Getting a look on RW because there are others ahead of him on LW. They're trying.

Again, I am not saying they & he aren't trying.

That's insane & not a reasonable take at all.

I am "concerned" he isn't all that concerned about where he is.

I believe that the org is concerned also about his lack of concern on that topic.

and I AM concerned that he looks like a "meh" player.

Selected in the 2nd or 3rd round... hey he worked out.

We lost out on a 1st rd pick... NOT a 1st overall. He's not even a 1st rd pick at this point

 

[Bob Richards]

I truly wish Lafrenieres underwhelming performance as a nhler was because of a lack of effort. It would almost be easier to swallow rather than what seems to be limited Athletic abilit. Is there a player who is supposed to be a skilled guy who plays with such a sluggish pace all over the ice? In every facet of the game, even when he’s handling the puck it’s so damn slow and lethargic. Even if he had the brain to process the game at a high level which it seems he doesn’t it’s hard to overcome everything else. I mean can someone tell me what he is good at without talking about his stats? Which arent good either anyway.

Seriously, do you think Laf wants to bust? Sometimes the person just can't do it. If he busts, he's not the first and he won't be the last either. Scouts, organizations, the whole system of ranking, can be wrong. Did Daigle wanted to bust? Did Stefan? Maybe he simply can't play faster than QMJHL (my class action is pending) pace. Some people's games never translate. He's not stupid. He knows there's talk about him. The organization knows too but the best thing they can do at the moment is insulate him from as much shit as possible.

This makes me sad but yeah lmfao.

I honestly don't buy much into narratives like, "coaching is hindering his development" or "he doesn't have the drive to be better to be good". When it comes to hockey prospects I'm like John Calvin and am pretty big on predestination. The guys who are good will be good and those who are not will never be.

 

[Draft Guru]

We lost out on a 1st rd pick... NOT a 1st overall. He's not even a 1st rd pick at this point

I swear this fan base has lost their minds.

 

[bobbop]

I think we are going to be hearing rumors about a trade request soon

As someone who has been rooting for this kid forever, reading these posts are heartbreaking. How the heck can he NOT be getting better (or trying)?

From the wonderful folks who brought you Pavel Brendl

 

[AirGut]

you guys think Laf hears all the noise from NYR faithful yet? This is the first time I can official see a consensus amongst most Rangers fans that they're done with defending him anymore.

could be a Dubois tier Autumn for Rangers fans

 

[Draft Guru]

Player A
75 GP 20 G 14 A 34 P DY+2 Age 20
79 GP 9 G 23 A 32 P DY+3 Age 21

Player B
82 GP 9 G 20 A 29 P DY+2 Age 20
82 GP 16 G 20 A 36 P DY+3 Age 21

Player C
79 GP 19 G 12 A 31 P DY+2 Age 20
81 GP 16 G 23 A 39 P DY+3 Age 21

All three players were drafted either 1st or 2nd overall.

Two of the three are in the Hall of Fame.

This fan base needs to ******* relax.

 

[Profet]

I just hope that he comes to camp in the best shape of his life with an attitude to prove the doubters wrong.

Sigh

 

[savebyrichter94]

I think we are going to be hearing rumors about a trade request soon


From the wonderful folks who brought you Pavel Brendl

I wouldn’t be surprised, he rarely shows any kind of emotion/personality outside of laughing or smiling but last night the frustration was visible all over his face

 

[NickyFotiu]

Seriously, do you think Laf wants to bust? Sometimes the person just can't do it. If he busts, he's not the first and he won't be the last either. Scouts, organizations, the whole system of ranking, can be wrong. Did Daigle wanted to bust? Did Stefan? Maybe he simply can't play faster than QMJHL (my class action is pending) pace. Some people's games never translate. He's not stupid. He knows there's talk about him. The organization knows too but the best thing they can do at the moment is insulate him from as much shit as possible.

I keep saying Daigle actually had the skills. He didn't have the desire. That is different. It does take a huge amount of hunger to be a consistent elite NHL player. Hockey wasn't Daigle's passion.

 

[IronBloodedLion]

Preseason is what it is, and although we know he’ll be in the lineup, he still has something to prove. I know it’s all optics, but Laf does come across as someone whose content to just be in the NHL as opposed to being great. Othmann looks like a guy that WANTS it. Kakko, for all his struggles, WANTS it. Chytil? WANTS it. Laf? I’m not so sure. Valiquette calling him out is always going to be in my mind until he proves otherwise.

The worst part is, the playoffs 2 years ago showed us what he can be. It’s in there somewhere.

 

[will1066]

Now that we found Laf, what are we gonna do, with him? --Heavy D

 

[Synergy27]

Didn’t Laf play in all of the preseason games so far as well? For a guy who is a locked into the lineup veteran with nothing to prove, isn’t that a bit odd?

 

[Harbour Dog]

Didn’t Laf play in all of the preseason games so far as well? For a guy who is a locked into the lineup veteran with nothing to prove, isn’t that a bit odd?

Missed the 2nd one, I believe. I never seen that game, but I remember he was listed as practicing and likely not playing for that one.

 

[Rongomania]

Reading this thread is actually akin to being kicked in the balls.