Player Discussion Alexis Lafreniere

[LokiDog]

I am honestly questioning if he legit wants to be in MTL (or elsewhere) at this point.

He either doesn't want to be here or he's really this mediocre.

Yeah... pre-season. I get that. But he looks exactly the same as he does in the reg season or playoffs or in the drive through window.

Very sad.

It’s also the fact that, even if he was just floating until the regular season because he knows his spot is secure, it would STILL feel like okay, how did YOU come into camp feeling that entitled? He is the last person that pre-season should be an excuse for because he had the most reasons to show up hungry and the opportunity to be a “vet” going into your fourth full season against a lot of rookies and AHL scrubs should have been your prime chance to turn some heads, gain some trust from the new coach, gain some momentum, etc.

It would be infuriating even if it was a valid excuse.

 

[Daves a mess]

John Muckler & Bryan Trottier say "hello" but I get your point

Ron Low was pretty bad. But I'm more of a roster sucks guy that a coach sucks guy.

I think Laugh is at zero points in his last 12 games.

 

[bleedblue94]

What is he interested in then? This is his career.

Plenty of guys want the NHL and don't have the drive to be elite even though they could be. Plenty of guys are complacent when they get to this pampered level. Laffy never had to earn anything post draft, he was handed everything here, yet you have a guy like bedard saying he need to make the team and refusing to wear to jersey until it's official. The lack of any noticeable improvement to even a single individual skill now in 4 camps should tell you all you need to know.

 

[Profet]

Plenty of guys want the NHL and don't have the drive to be elite even though they could be. Plenty of guys are complacent when they get to this pampered level. Laffy never had to earn anything post draft, he was handed everything here, yet you have a guy like bedard saying he need to make the team and refusing to wear to jersey until it's official. The lack of any noticeable improvement to even a single individual skill now in 4 camps should tell you all you need to know.

Pavel Brendl comes to mind.

Most talented player I've ever seen to just throw it all away with lack of effort.

 

[Machinehead]

I’m not going to bash this kid anymore, sure I joke, but to bash him, it goes against my nature. I hope he figures it out, Rangers really need him to.

He was one of the players that had to prove something, got demoted in a preseason game, so yeah, here we are.

That's ok, I'll do it for you.

 

[will1066]

Don't make me break out the yogurt pic again

 

[DanielBrassard]

I truly wish Lafrenieres underwhelming performance as a nhler was because of a lack of effort. It would almost be easier to swallow rather than what seems to be limited Athletic abilit. Is there a player who is supposed to be a skilled guy who plays with such a sluggish pace all over the ice? In every facet of the game, even when he’s handling the puck it’s so damn slow and lethargic. Even if he had the brain to process the game at a high level which it seems he doesn’t it’s hard to overcome everything else. I mean can someone tell me what he is good at without talking about his stats? Which arent good either anyway.

 

[CLW]

Plenty of guys want the NHL and don't have the drive to be elite even though they could be. Plenty of guys are complacent when they get to this pampered level. Laffy never had to earn anything post draft, he was handed everything here, yet you have a guy like bedard saying he need to make the team and refusing to wear to jersey until it's official. The lack of any noticeable improvement to even a single individual skill now in 4 camps should tell you all you need to know.

I think he was handed everything even pre-draft. Perhaps that is part of the issue. Does he really not get, on a fundamental level, that he is expected to be extraordinary on the ice? We see videos of the Bedards and the Kanes and Mackinnons etc working their arses off to improve and hone their skills, but that dimension simply does not seem to exist in Laf's universe whatsoever. Wtf is going on. Is he a little simple? And that's a genuine question not bashing him personally.

 

[Machinehead]

Othmann has 2 goals in 3 preseason games. It's preseason, yes, but if (emphasis on if) Othmann can come here and tangibly produce, it's going to blow the doors off the theories that the Rangers somehow wronged Lafreniere or that he's inherently limited because he's not a great skater.

 

[mas0764]

Othmann stated in juniors two years after being drafted though. Prime formative development years.

 

[Machinehead]

Othmann stated in juniors two years after being drafted though. Prime formative development years.

That's no excuse.

Lafreniere was better in the CHL at 17 than Othmann was at 19. He hasn't shown it here despite being given every opportunity.

Every run of the mill NHL player would dominate junior hockey. It looks like that's as far as Lafreniere got. He has the skills of a replacement level NHL player.

 

[LokiDog]

I truly wish Lafrenieres underwhelming performance as a nhler was because of a lack of effort. It would almost be easier to swallow rather than what seems to be limited Athletic abilit. Is there a player who is supposed to be a skilled guy who plays with such a sluggish pace all over the ice? In every facet of the game, even when he’s handling the puck it’s so damn slow and lethargic. Even if he had the process the game at a high level which it seems he doesn’t it’s hard to overcome everything else. I mean can someone tell me what he is good at without talking about his stats? Which arent good either anyway.

One thing I always find interesting is that when his skating is brought up people give examples like Jason Robertson of poor skaters who still excel. I watch a lot of Dallas highlights and Robo looks like an absolute burner compared to Laf and it’s because of two things:

1. His motor - if Robo’s skating is mechanically inefficient and slow he makes up for it by constantly being in motion with his legs churning, not coasting/circling but really moving.

2. His pace of play/hockey IQ - Robo is head up, skating INTO the pass to receive it with pace, already getting ready to make the deke or get the quick shot off. He plays faster than anyone on the Rangers despite being singled out as being slow. Laf isn’t even in the same plane of consciousness and so he looks 10x slower.

 

[DanielBrassard]

One thing I always find interesting is that when his skating is brought up people give examples like Jason Robertson of poor skaters who still excel. I watch a lot of Dallas highlights and Robo looks like an absolute burner compared to Laf and it’s because of two things:

1. His motor - if Robo’s skating is mechanically inefficient and slow he makes up for it by constantly being in motion with his legs churning, not coasting/circling but really moving.

2. His pace of play/hockey IQ - Robo is head up, skating INTO the pass to receive it with pace, already getting ready to make the deke or get the quick shot off. He plays faster than anyone on the Rangers despite being singled out as being slow. Laf isn’t even in the same plane of consciousness and so he looks 10x slower.

100% true, but the other thing is you don’t have to skate fast to create time and space for yourself or to be able to stick handle around players. A guy like Robertson or Tkachuk might not be able to blow by a defenseman off the rush or whatever but they can still beat them with their hands and their brain. Lafreniere has never done that.

I pointed it out last game against the Islanders, there was a beautiful give and go between Kakko and Cuylle in the neutral zone to create an entry and I believe a productive shift in the offensive zone. It wasn‘t a spectacular play but an example of two guys who were able to execute a play with pace and with reading the ice. Do you recall Lafreniere ever making a play like that ever? I mean it’s probably happened a few times but nothing stands out. Most of the time he’s struggling to retain puck control while getting pressured and ends up just throwing pucks into no man’s land.

 

[LiveLongandProspal]

Othmann and Cuylle have played better and harder than Laf. It's a shame that one or both will start the season in Hartford due to Laf's pedigree.

 

[Machinehead]

The idea that lower leagues are better at developing NHL players than the NHL doesn't make sense.

The only thing about lower leagues is that you spend more time on the ice in an overall greater role, which fits where some guys are at.

You could argue Lafreniere should have done that, and that it leads to a better outcome, but at this point he's played plenty of hockey to be much better than what he is.

 

[LokiDog]

100% true, but the other thing is you don’t have to skate fast to create time and space for yourself or to be able to stick handle around players. A guy like Robertson or Tkachuk might not be able to blow by a defenseman off the rush or whatever but they can still beat them with their hands and their brain. Lafreniere has never done that.

I think we’re saying the same thing in different ways. When I mean the pace he plays with, how fast he’s processing the game - to me - is what’s allowing him to be head up all the way, reading the defender, already transitioning from picking up the puck straight into going where he wants with it, beating the defender with his hands. His anticipation, and his step-ahead-ness, along with the quality of his hands and shot make his skating less than a non issue. If he repeats last year he’s a bonafide top 10 threat in the NHL.

 

[will1066]

Seriously, do you think Laf wants to bust? Sometimes the person just can't do it. If he busts, he's not the first and he won't be the last either. Scouts, organizations, the whole system of ranking, can be wrong. Did Daigle wanted to bust? Did Stefan? Maybe he simply can't play faster than QMJHL (my class action is pending) pace. Some people's games never translate. He's not stupid. He knows there's talk about him. The organization knows too but the best thing they can do at the moment is insulate him from as much shit as possible.

 

[NoQuitInNewMexico]

I think he was handed everything even pre-draft. Perhaps that is part of the issue. Does he really not get, on a fundamental level, that he is expected to be extraordinary on the ice? We see videos of the Bedards and the Kanes and Mackinnons etc working their arses off to improve and hone their skills, but that dimension simply does not seem to exist in Laf's universe whatsoever. Wtf is going on. Is he a little simple? And that's a genuine question not bashing him personally.

I don't know, I don't want to overplay the bearded child thing but I think it's a guy who peaked early because of his physical tools, without actually being a 6'5" Eric Lindros manimal that could use that to be dominant against grown men. In the Q it wasn't like he was a riser, he was a sick player basically from day one. It was a consensus that he had nothing left to learn from continuing to play in that league.

Top-level hockey players seem like a very narrow band of personalities. If he's staying up until 4 AM smoking hookah with French models before game days, a lot of the rest of them are too, and good for them.

 

[LORDE]

What is he interested in then? This is his career.

I dunno. Being drafted 1st OA & just cashing checks? Being traded somewhere else & then trying? I dont have anywhere an idea on that

Sincere question (not doubting your assertion): how did you come across this info / the production folks? No need to provide names.

I work in TV (almost 30 years now) & work w a lot of folks that are talent, produce, cameras etc across the sports spectrum

If you really want a resume DM me & I'll provide it

 

[LORDE]

It’s also the fact that, even if he was just floating until the regular season because he knows his spot is secure, it would STILL feel like okay, how did YOU come into camp feeling that entitled? He is the last person that pre-season should be an excuse for because he had the most reasons to show up hungry and the opportunity to be a “vet” going into your fourth full season against a lot of rookies and AHL scrubs should have been your prime chance to turn some heads, gain some trust from the new coach, gain some momentum, etc.

It would be infuriating even if it was a valid excuse.

That is a VERY valid point

Plenty of guys want the NHL and don't have the drive to be elite even though they could be. Plenty of guys are complacent when they get to this pampered level. Laffy never had to earn anything post draft, he was handed everything here, yet you have a guy like bedard saying he need to make the team and refusing to wear to jersey until it's official. The lack of any noticeable improvement to even a single individual skill now in 4 camps should tell you all you need to know.

I honestly can't agree, more

Yet I also can't be more afraid of this post.

Happy Halloween

 

[Whoot Whoot]

I don't get how the scouts could ALL be sooooo wrong about unlucky 13

 

[LokiDog]

Seriously, do you think Laf wants to bust? Sometimes the person just can't do it. If he busts, he's not the first and he won't be the last either. Scouts, organizations, the whole system of ranking, can be wrong. Did Daigle wanted to bust? Did Stefan? Maybe he simply can't play faster than QMJHL (my class action is pending) pace. Some people's games never translate. He's not stupid. He knows there's talk about him. The organization knows too but the best thing they can do at the moment is insulate him from as much shit as possible.

I think this is kind of the crux of the entire Laf debate really.

If you believe Laf wants to bust you’re just a silly person.

If you believe that he just doesn’t have it, matured at a young age, can’t exceed the pace of play from junior - to the same effect, at least - than you don’t expect improvement. That’s regardless of whether speculating about his fitness or commitment has any merit at all.

If you believe that he does have it, and he just needs more confidence, powerplay time, consistency, coaching, whatever it is that you think will help, hopefully you see something tangible that gives you reason to believe it. Correlation doesn’t always equal causation - the lack of PP usage or consistent linemates doesn’t necessarily mean it’s been the cause of poor performance.

If you believe Laf just doesn’t have it, then you believe he’ll bust regardless or feel that even as a 50 point player he’s a disappointment. In that case, the question is whether you can get value for him before other teams write him off? If you believe he’ll bust or max out as a 50ish point vanilla player “eventually” than, can you get something that has the potential to be more valuable or helpful to the team than Laf is going to be in the next 2 or 3 years?

Even if he goes on to exceed the adjusted projections we now have for him here, isn’t what matters more whether or not he’s going to do that in NY, when he’s going to do it and whether or not it’s what is best for us with regards to the ages of our entire under 30 D core, Shesterkin and the key pieces at forward that we have. The goal is to win. Laf isn’t on an ELC anymore so we don’t have the benefit of cheap elite talent, unless it’s right now on this year of this deal.

So if Laf isn’t going to help us get there by being here, maybe he can help us get there by being traded somewhere else.

 

[LORDE]

Seriously, do you think Laf wants to bust? Sometimes the person just can't do it. If he busts, he's not the first and he won't be the last either. Scouts, organizations, the whole system of ranking, can be wrong. Did Daigle wanted to bust? Did Stefan? Maybe he simply can't play faster than QMJHL (my class action is pending) pace. Some people's games never translate. He's not stupid. He knows there's talk about him. The organization knows too but the best thing they can do at the moment is insulate him from as much shit as possible.

I don't (& others don't I'm sure) want him to bust & know he doesn't want that.

BUT at this point it does feel like he's ok with what's going on in his career.

Has he taken steps? Outside of showing up to practices... meetings... pre-season games?

Is he hitting the gym... ask to hire a skating coach... worked on his shot... worked in the offseason... worked before or after practice with anyone? Vets or special coaches?

These are honest questions.

If your only desire is to cash an NHL check... he's doing a fantastic job.

Otherwise he's an abject FAIL

 

[ReddestRum]

It’s also the fact that, even if he was just floating until the regular season because he knows his spot is secure, it would STILL feel like okay, how did YOU come into camp feeling that entitled? He is the last person that pre-season should be an excuse for because he had the most reasons to show up hungry and the opportunity to be a “vet” going into your fourth full season against a lot of rookies and AHL scrubs should have been your prime chance to turn some heads, gain some trust from the new coach, gain some momentum, etc.

It would be infuriating even if it was a valid excuse.

I really just want to put everyone that says "It's just preseason" concerning Laf on ignore. Yes, it is preseason and some of these teams are AHL put together teams, which is why you'd want to see some domination from guys that have been in the league. God forbid I'd want my 1OA to be leading the way, but I guess there will always be a defense against mediocrity even when the games don't count, but playing your heart out should.

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

Still extremely early but I echo everything Loki has been saying.

It’s actually a little crazy right now. He is better than this. I wonder if the pressure is getting to him.