Player Discussion Alexis Lafreniere

[PANARIN BREAD FAN]

i don't see why 13 starting at rw would be that hard of an adjustment. besides all the "garbage" goals weren't most his points including the 2 dekes were from the right side?

and he pissed me off big time by not taking that shot in the last game but instead passed it to inside to skates. no shot thus no chance for a rebound, and he was open to take that shot. and that was also at the right side.

 

[Bacon Artemi Bravo]

i don't see why 13 starting at rw would be that hard of an adjustment. besides all the "garbage" goals weren't most his points including the 2 dekes were from the right side?

and he pissed me off big time by not taking that shot in the last game but instead passed it to inside to skates. no shot thus no chance for a rebound, and he was open to take that shot. and that was also at the right side.

I think the issues being on your off wing have less to do with offensive zone and more to do with d-zone, breakout ect.

 

[Barnaby]

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Interesting you bring up Zib. When you look at his stats, he was a pretty mediocre player, not too far off from what Laf is doing, until his ice time picks up with the Rangers.

Do some guys improve? Yes.

Do some guys fail to improve? Yes.

That doesn’t mean you sit your players who are producing on the chance 2-3 years from now the under developed player might be as good as the guy you have now. Like a lot of us have been saying the guy also doesn’t flash at all. That’s not to say he never will, but it does mean I’m not force feeding him top PP time over clearly better options. Let’s see guys like Laf and Kakko learn hot to PK, then we’ll see about PP.

 

[NickyFotiu]

I think the issues being on your off wing have less to do with offensive zone and more to do with d-zone, breakout ect.

Playing off wing is actually much better offensively in my opinion. Laf tends to get squeezed on the left dasher boards. Being in a more natural shooting motion going towards the middle could help that.

 

[LORDE]

View attachment 747588

Interesting you bring up Zib. When you look at his stats, he was a pretty mediocre player, not too far off from what Laf is doing, until his ice time picks up with the Rangers.

Not singling you out here at all but this has been stated before by others & by myself:

Zbad isn't a comp because he had skills BEFORE he was flashing his now often "elite" abilities.

Zbad can & could skate, he has size & knows how to use it, he can pass & has a fairly high hockey IQ

But most importantly he had & has a cannon of a shot.

Many on this board coveted Zbad well before he was a NYR. Many here touted that he was primed for a breakout. Many of us were elated to get him (not JUST because of the cost).

I've been hard on Laf. I've been guilty of being too harsh probably. My expectations for him were way too high. I readily admit that. But he doesn't have NEARLY the tools that Z had & he probably never will.

He doesn't appear to even want to put the effort in to TRY to find some of those skills & that's what all of his detractors want to see.

 

[LokiDog]

These are the same people who think that PP time is what's keeping Laff from being on the same level as Jack Hughes.

Also, guys like Hughes, when struggling in their rookie season and not producing, still show massive skill immediately - and it isn’t because of extra minutes or PP time. As others have pointed out - the talent you show in minutes 0-12 of the game is the same as you have in minutes 12-18. The extra time can help you produce more, by being out there more, but you’re not going to suddenly show something different in minute 17. Hughes rookie stats were super underwhelming, but Devils fans were never worried about him because whether he was playing 11-12 minutes (and he did plenty of nights) or 18, he was showing THE EXACT skill he was drafted for on virtually every shift. He averaged about 15:20 per game, btw. The talent was there the first shift, even strength, only 12 seconds of NHL experience under the belt.

Hughes, Bedard, Mackinnon, Hall, etc… (shit this is true of even mediocre picks like RNH or busts like Yakupov) none of them needed to be given 3 months worth of top PP time before they gave themselves mental permission to try things and WANT to be elite. The very first time they stepped on NHL ice they were hungry and ready to try carrying the puck, try leading the rush, try taking an NHL defender one on one, try threading the needle, not hesitant to shoot. That isn’t because they were given PP time or because they had this long leash. It’s because they had the drive, the hunger and the ability. They were doing that stuff game one, shift one before there was any indication of the leash they would be getting and they were doing it because they simply had the tools to do so. It’s that simple. They had what it takes to be elite. Nothing was going to stop that from happening. The continued minutes and PP time was partially a result of them showing up and showing out. Laf does not seem to have those tools. If he does, it’s long past due that he showed them.

Bedard in his first preseason game literally refused to get off the ice in OT and subsequently ended the game with a beautiful backhand saucer pass. You should see some of the highlights from his first game - plays he didn’t score on but looked ridiculously good on. It’s not about comparing them as players necessarily, or their situations, it’s about that hunger to step on the ice and immediately WANT it and want to show what you’re capable of. Laf just looks like the most non-descript, totally pedestrian guy out there and he doesn’t show any personal initiative to take over a shift. You have a new coach and opportunity to make fresh impressions. It’s preseason. It’s the time to make a mistake going for the skill play. You can chalk it up to “getting my timing and getting confident with handling the puck - don’t worry coach, in a meaningful game that puck gets deep”. There’s no reason for him to come out and play neutered and for us to blame it on GG or DQ right now. He has every opportunity to come out and try to show something here in preseason and instead he just looks like happy Laffy from game 60 last year. Totally average.

 

[Synergy27]

Also, guys like Hughes, when struggling in their rookie season and not producing, still show massive skill immediately - and it isn’t because of extra minutes or PP time. It was there the first shift, even strength, only 12 seconds of NHL experience under the belt.

Hughes, Bedard, Mackinnon, Hall, etc… none of them needed to be given 3 months worth of PP time before they gave themselves mental permission to try being the best. The very first time they stepped on NHL ice they were hungry and ready to try carrying the puck, try leading the rush, try taking an NHL defender one on one, try threading the needle, not hesitant to shoot. That isn’t because they were given PP time or because they had this long leash. They were doing that stuff game one, shift one before there was any indication of the leash they would be getting and they were doing it because they simply had the tools to do so. It’s that simple. They had what it takes to be elite. Nothing was going to stop that from happening. The continued minutes and PP time was partially a result of them showing up and showing out. Laf does not seem to have those tools. If he does, it’s long past due that he showed them.

Bedard in his first preseason game literally refused to get off the ice in OT and literally ended the game with a beautiful backhand saucer pass. You should see some of the highlights from his first game - plays he didn’t score on but looked ridiculously good on. It’s not about comparing them as players necessarily, or their situations, it’s about that hunger to step on the ice and immediately WANT it and want to show what you’re capable of. Laf just looks like the most non-descript, totally pedestrian guy out there and he doesn’t show any personal initiative to take over a shift. You have a new coach and opportunity to make fresh impressions. It’s preseason. It’s the time to make a mistake going for the skill play. You can chalk it up to “getting my timing and getting confident with handling the puck - don’t worry coach, in a meaningful game that puck gets deep”. There’s no reason for him to come out and play neutered and for us to blame it on GG or DQ right now. He has every opportunity to come out and try to show something here in preseason and instead he just looks like happy Laffy from game 60 last year. Totally average.

Nah man. This is Quinn and Gallant’s fault. They neutered him from day one.

 

[savebyrichter94]

Playing off wing is actually much better offensively in my opinion. Laf tends to get squeezed on the left dasher boards. Being in a more natural shooting motion going towards the middle could help that.

It should but he’s gotta be willing and decisive when he has the puck in a prime shooting position like on the PP last game when he was wide open and over thought it/hesitated and then made a trash pass instead

Nah man. This is Quinn and Gallant’s fault. They neutered him from day one.

I think you’re right and part of it is that he was kinda neutered from the start, same with Kakko but he’s gotta find a way to overcome and push through

 

[Kendo]

Tofu Boy...

We better see accountability this season. When Zibanejad shows up and is clearly baked from the pound of weed he smoked and lazy because all he ingested was tofu, and looks like it on the ice, that guy better be benched, taken off PP1 and PK1 and let someone with an ounce of intensity do that job. Watching Zib and Kreider lollygag and smother each other is old. Watching Panarin lean against the boards all game on the perimeter because he's got no muscles on those bones to get to the net, is getting old. Shaving yiur head doesnt make you gangster. How much money is tied up into those three? They haven't gotten the job done and they answer to nobody. But we are going to gang up on a 22 year old that's been held back and punished for 3 years

Jesus. You're really gonna shit on our point per game plus players? The whole team laid an egg after going up 2 games. There was seemingly no coaching/accountability. I agree with you there. I also agree that we don't need to gang up on the kid. But taking pot shots at the best center we've had in how long is WILD. Serious "work on your game, kid" vibes. LOL

 

[savebyrichter94]

In the preseason so far you can see the PTSD as soon as he gets the puck. Quinn and Gallant nipped his nuts and he's unsure if he should try to be "the guy" when he gets the chance or defer to Tofu Boy and Kreider, or Panarin, or Fox or whoever else is out there. He's out there second guessing and over thinking everything because THATS how the Rangers developed him.

Look at him in Juniors and the WJC. He had a killer mentality with the puck. Rangers get their hands on him and brow beat him into a fringe 3rd line player. It's absolutely bonkers. And we blame and gang up on the kid? You're told and it's it beaten into your skull for three years to be one way and now suddenly he's supposed to flip a mental switch and be another way? Not how the human brain works.

He needs time in big spots to develop the way he should have from the start. This is basically starting from 0 and we need to develop him again to 10 but the right way. Unfortunately 3 years late. If the Rangers and the fans don't have the patience because they all want instant gratification, f***in tiktok generation, then they should cut bait now and deal him for something they prefer which is apparently any 35+ year old scrub they can get their hands on.

If they don't want to invest in Laf anymore they should throw whatever they can throw at Anaheim for Zegras.

This Laf situation is an embarrassment. But I'll never blame the kid, I blame the grown ass professional adults that earn more money than most of us will ever see to figure out how to recognize and develop talent. Laf doesn't come to the rink telling the Rangers "I'm on first line with so-and-so". Like thinspo Panarin apparently has the clout to do for some f*** all reason. Laf comes to the rink wanting to play hockey and I'm sure wanting to score goals and be one of the leaders, but then you have cliques and coaches and management saying "f*** you kid do what we say" for 3 years. And we wonder why he's not Stutzle who scores all his points on the f***in PP where Laf NEVER got a consistent real shot to play.

Encourage players to be the best they can be and they will be.

We better see accountability this season. When Zibanejad shows up and is clearly baked from the pound of weed he smoked and lazy because all he ingested was tofu, and looks like it on the ice, that guy better be benched, taken off PP1 and PK1 and let someone with an ounce of intensity do that job. Watching Zib and Kreider lollygag and smother each other is old. Watching Panarin lean against the boards all game on the perimeter because he's got no muscles on those bones to get to the net, is getting old. Shaving yiur head doesnt make you gangster. How much money is tied up into those three? They haven't gotten the job done and they answer to nobody. But we are going to gang up on a 22 year old that's been held back and punished for 3 years

All else aside if Zib is showing up too baked to play with intensity he needs to switch to a premium sativa cause that shit’ll make you wanna run through a wall with a clear mind

 

[Barnaby]

Nah man. This is Quinn and Gallant’s fault. They neutered him from day one.

DQ, GG, and now it’ll be Laviolettes fault. Maybe the “skill coach.” Everyone but the prized draft picks.

 

[NickyFotiu]

It should but he’s gotta be willing and decisive when he has the puck in a prime shooting position like on the PP last game when he was wide open and over thought it/hesitated and then made a trash pass instead


I think you’re right and part of it is that he was kinda neutered from the start, same with Kakko but he’s gotta find a way to overcome and push through

I would not put too much emphasis on hesitation in early training camp games. Sometimes that can be rust.

No coaches will purposely slow down a skaters speed nor their ability to puck handle and shoot. Nobody in the past is trying to stop Laf from being a great player and nobody in the future will be

 

[savebyrichter94]

I would not put too much emphasis on hesitation in early training camp games. Sometimes that can be rust.

No coaches will purposely slow down a skaters speed nor their ability to puck handle and shoot. Nobody in the past is trying to stop Laf from being a great player and nobody in the future will be

It could be rust, that’s true but it seems to be something he has struggled with in the past too at least at the NHL level

I wouldn’t say they are stopping him but I don’t think he was done any favors early on in terms of helping to maintain the mojo required to succeed, the unique situation of our roster probably wasn’t ideal for guys like him and Kakko to keep riding that wave of momentum they had coming into the league but in the end the player has to find a way to rise above and push through when given opportunity and show what they’re made of

 

[Vitto79]

He’s gotta play RW all camp
Hopefully we see him progressing soon

 

[Kravtsov420]

Wonder how many moms are left to complain about Laviolette's usage of him when he invariably plays himself onto the 3rd line and never sniffs PP1.

who are we kidding, it will be kakko on the third line somehow.

 

[NickyFotiu]

It could be rust, that’s true but it seems to be something he has struggled with in the past too at least at the NHL level

I wouldn’t say they are stopping him but I don’t think he was done any favors early on in terms of helping to maintain the mojo required to succeed, the unique situation of our roster probably wasn’t ideal for guys like him and Kakko to keep riding that wave of momentum they had coming into the league but in the end the player has to find a way to rise above and push through when given opportunity and show what they’re made of

Unlike others I think Laf came in to a pretty good situation. He was given steady ES minutes on a team where he did not have to feel pressure. I have said many times I look at how guys play in minutes 0-10. I do not need minutes 16-17-18 to see if a guy is playing well. Laf has looked like the same player for the most part since day 1. I have not seen any noticeable change in his skills yet. In the second half of 2021 and the 2021 playoffs I saw harder work and more determination. My huge hope was he was going to come in to camp and have coaches rave about his offseason. Have them rave that he improved his skating and is in tremendous shape. I have not heard that but its still possible that Laf worked very hard in this offseason to improve things. What is also possible is the other side. Some pro athletes have incredible desires to excel. Nobody can play at 100% every game but the elite players find that extra gear. Then there are other players that do not have that hunger. They are good players. They will have some nice moments but they will not be consistent enough to reach all star or elite status. To be fair hockey can start to feel like a job. I loved the game as a kid but some nights as an adult I just did not want to skate.

 

[Kravtsov420]

I don't care so much about the points because with Kakko yea he put up 40 points but with no PP and on the third line. You can't ask for much more but his play is indicative that he would put up more if he were given that opportunity.

With Laf, there is nothing under the hood. Its the engine of a Honda Odyssey under there with a nice interior (1st overall clout). Just no flashes of anything. I don't understand because I didn't think it was possible for anyone to be as bad as he has been.

 

[ReddestRum]

This season didn't even start...or have you made up your mind on this season after 2 preseason games?

I have two eyes and can make a determination that he doesn't look any better, faster, better IQ, positionally sound than last season. And the season before that. I didn't just start having my doubts about Laf. I've had my doubts about him for a long time and every season that goes by they're justified.

1OAs in most sports are usually franchise players from the get go. From the ripe 'ol age of 18 they can pass the eye test where you can see why they were drafted first. Did you see Bedard's first game? It was just a preseason game, but my god that f***ing kid killed the eye test, dazzled, put points on the board, and even assisted on the game winner. I bet it was exciting for Hawks fans and that shitty org. I can't remember the last time I was excited to watch Laf step on the ice and every time he does, I can see why.

 

[JHS]

Nah man. This is Quinn and Gallant’s fault. They neutered him from day one.

Quinn will go down as one of the worst coaches in Rangers history. The hire made no sense at the time and it’s having crushing impacts on players even today. They guy destroyed more careers than I think we can even imagine— and he’s still doing it in San Jose.

 

[ReddestRum]

Nah man. This is Quinn and Gallant’s fault. They neutered him from day one.

The system we played under both those coaches were horrendous. There was nothing fast or speedy about it. Dump and chase, mostly east-west, up and down the boards for an eternity system. Most teams have started to adopt speed through the neutral zone systems, especially with their young players and having that kind of system would've benefitted at least Chy and KK.

 

[smoneil]

i don't see why 13 starting at rw would be that hard of an adjustment. besides all the "garbage" goals weren't most his points including the 2 dekes were from the right side?

and he pissed me off big time by not taking that shot in the last game but instead passed it to inside to skates. no shot thus no chance for a rebound, and he was open to take that shot. and that was also at the right side.

Then why are folks adamant that neither Kreider nor Panarin should spend so much as a shift on the RW? Laf explained it himself--the biggest issue is that he has to change the way he back checks from the RW. That's one more thing that he has to actively think about rather than relying on muscle memory. The kid is in his own head because he's been developed as a support player/role player for the last three years. Instead of taking chances and looking to BE the guy that makes the play, he's slowing everything down so he isn't the guy who screws up the play. He's looking to defer on every play. And that's why he does things like passing up shots in favor of passing. Just look at the slumps he's had over the last three years. He practically stops shooting altogether during those stretches.

 

[LORDE]

Quinn will go down as one of the worst coaches in Rangers history. The hire made no sense at the time and it’s having crushing impacts on players even today. They guy destroyed more careers than I think we can even imagine— and he’s still doing it in San Jose.

John Muckler & Bryan Trottier say "hello" but I get your point

 

[Claxton]

Its ok guys. I sent Laf an encouraging DM on Instagram. He's going to break out any day now

 

[JHS]

John Muckler & Bryan Trottier say "hello" but I get your point

For sure but in terms of timing for an organization going with Quinn literally made no sense.

 

[Profet]

I think the issues being on your off wing have less to do with offensive zone and more to do with d-zone, breakout ect.

This... He showed numerous times that he can't pass on his backhand while skating through the neutral zone. This will make it easy for the opposition to leave him open for the d-zone exit pass and then quickly box him out to force a loss of possession.