Player Discussion Alexis Lafreniere

[IDvsEGO]

This whole team structure is unique. We have kids under 25, vets 30+ and only 3 players 25-29. Fox and lindgren who are 25 and Trouba who is 29.

We have nobody in their “prime” years of 26-28.

Its really odd.

Aside from our vezina goalie you mean?

 

[Ruggs225]

Aside from our vezina goalie you mean?

Yes i mean skaters. Goalies are there own breed.

 

[NYR94]

From NHL.com mailbag

Mailbag: Lafreniere’s future with Rangers, outlook for Sharks | NHL.com

NHL.com's Dan Rosen answers weekly questions

www.nhl.com

Will the Rangers hang on to Alexis Lafreniere or move him? -- @jim_bornholdt


The Rangers signed Lafreniere to a two-year contract worth $2.325 million annually on Aug. 24. They're hoping the forward's production climbs this season and he becomes a bargain at that price next season. They didn't sign him to trade him right away. It's possible down the road he gets moved, but Lafreniere turns 22 on Oct. 11 and there is still a lot of growth in his game to come. It's worth finding out if he can take the next step. Though he isn't a No. 1 pick (2020 NHL Draft) that has turned into a generational player, his production has gone up in each of his three seasons, particularly the past two, which were full NHL seasons. He was a rookie in the COVID shortened 56-game 2020-21 season, when he had 21 points (12 goals, nine assists) in 56 games. He had 31 points (19 goals, 12 assists) in 79 games in 2021-22 and 39 points (16 goals, 23 assists) in 81 games last season.


I think Lafreniere can be a 25-goal, 50-point player this season if he's given a fair opportunity on the power play. That was a big problem for him last season. He was on the second unit, but that unit got maybe the last 30 seconds of most of the power play opportunities. Peter Laviolette, the Rangers new coach, has to give a better split and allow Lafreniere more of an opportunity to shine. In fact, I think he should be given a chance to play left wing on a line with center Mika Zibanejad at even strength. Chris Kreider typically plays there, but Kreider's dominant moments are on the power play and he will still be the netfront option on PP1. If Lafreniere is given a bigger role at 5-on-5 it should enhance his confidence and production will follow.

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

From NHL.com mailbag

Mailbag: Lafreniere’s future with Rangers, outlook for Sharks | NHL.com

NHL.com's Dan Rosen answers weekly questions

www.nhl.com

I agree they should give him more time up top 5 on 5 with Mika, but im seeing this "excuse" amongst a lot of articles.

Lets not forget he was given this chance mulitple times. He was given time there two seasons ago. He started camp up there last season and was given several games with Mika to start the season. He didnt stick.

You could say he wasnt given a long leash which is fair (certainly the case for Kakko imo) but he also didnt make it a very difficult decision for Gallant, on a loaded team that was coming off a conference finals appearance.

Laf needs to seize his opportunity just as much as he needs to be given more of them. Its a two way street at this point. Especially this season. If he doesnt, is he a bust? No. Not the case imo.

 

[haohmaru]

 

[Rongomania]

Would give my right leg for a Kak/Laf break out season and literally shut every hockey 'mind' right the f*ck up.

 

[will1066]

 

[CLW]

This whole team structure is unique. We have kids under 25, vets 30+ and only 3 players 25-29. Fox and lindgren who are 25 and Trouba who is 29.

We have nobody in their “prime” years of 26-28.

Its really odd.

It looks like that because the NYR is too snotty an org to do a proper rebuild.

 

[Kords]

Would give my right leg for a Kak/Laf break out season and literally shut every hockey 'mind' right the f*ck up.

A-freaking-men dude.

It’s insufferable to read. The worst part about reading these national media takes is that it’s all stuff this board has been talking about months ago. It’s like they are 4 months behind and as soon as one writer catches up they all follow suit to try and sound like they are in the know.

 

[IDvsEGO]

It looks like that because the NYR is too snotty an org to do a proper rebuild.

The concept that the rangers didn't do a proper rebuild is absoutely insane.
They tore down faster and more complete than any other rebuild I've ever seen.
They "lucked out" in getting kakko and laf, but their targets were zegras and lundell.
They had 8 first round picks in 5 years.
The only UFA they truly acquired was panarin.

 

[Rongomania]

A-freaking-men dude.

It’s insufferable to read. The worst part about reading these national media takes is that it’s all stuff this board has been talking about months ago. It’s like they are 4 months behind and as soon as one writer catches up they all follow suit to try and sound like they are in the know.

Very sad and silly.

"Alexis Lafrenière won't live up to being a No.1 pick but there's more promise than most think."

Yes, let's completely count out a 1st overall who isn't even 22 yet, only has played third line mins and pp2 with any true consistency. Oh, and he's averaging almost 20 goals per season. Yes that sounds smart. Hope the kid truly freakin' explodes this year.

The summer of this 'Bash Laf/Trade him for a third/He's a 21 year old bum' buuuullshit is honestly worse than all those cringe Kakko takes last summer. Many were silenced, many had a complete 180 change of how they view him after last season. Both here and in the hockey media.

Everyone here should be pulling as hard as they can for these two - no excuses.

 

[Profet]

The concept that the rangers didn't do a proper rebuild is absoutely insane.
They tore down faster and more complete than any other rebuild I've ever seen.
They "lucked out" in getting kakko and laf, but their targets were zegras and lundell.
They had 8 first round picks in 5 years.
The only UFA they truly acquired was panarin.

They tore down so fast that they forgot to get any value for some of their most valuable assets.

McDonagh
Miller
Zuccarello
Buchnevich

 

[effen]

They tore down so fast that they forgot to get any value for some of their most valuable assets.

McDonagh
Miller
Zuccarello
Buchnevich

Everyone in the league knew those guys were available and coulda gotten em for apparently slightly more than pretty much nothing.

20+ GMs missed out on getting really good guys for 50 cents on the dollar. Maybe it's a them problem.

 

[RangerBoy]

Would give my right leg for a Kak/Laf break out season and literally shut every hockey 'mind' right the f*ck up.

It's not just the hockey minds. There are elements of the fanbase who have written off Kakko and Lafreniere. They don't skate well enough for them. They act like skating is the only element to making a hockey player. Tell that to Jason Robertson and Mark Stone.

Some elements of the fanbase would rather have a a gimpy 35 year old Kane coming off hip resurfacing surgery than Kakko or Lafreniere.

 

[Profet]

It's not just the hockey minds. There are elements of the fanbase who have written off Kakko and Lafreniere. They don't skate well enough for them. They act like skating is the only element to making a hockey player. Tell that to Jason Robertson and Mark Stone.

Some elements of the fanbase would rather have a a gimpy 35 year old Kane coming off hip resurfacing surgery than Kakko or Lafreniere.

Let's stop acting like Lafreniere has done anything other than wearing a blue shirt to deserve the optimism he gets around here.

Kakko is a different story. I'm still on the Kakko train and believe he has the talent to become a good first liner.

I just don't see the talent there for Lafreniere. I still hope he proves me wrong, I just don't see it, and I'm not the only one.

 

[Rongomania]

It's not just the hockey minds. There are elements of the fanbase who have written off Kakko and Lafreniere. They don't skate well enough for them. They act like skating is the only element to making a hockey player. Tell that to Jason Robertson and Mark Stone.

Some elements of the fanbase would rather have a a gimpy 35 year old Kane coming off hip resurfacing surgery than Kakko or Lafreniere.

Oh absolutely yes, my "Hockey 'minds'." comment was directed at those within our fanbase as well.

All shots fired brother, don't you worry.

 

[Mandar]

Throwing out all stats....I just want to notice Laf on the ice.....the vast majority of the time he is on the ice, he's unnoticeable. Now, that can be a good thing if he's being effective and doing stuff that goes unnoticed (getting into lanes, etc.)....but if the production is lacking, I'd like to see him much more involved.....be on the puck more....agitate....make his presence felt - on a consistent basis. This is where I think Kakko is doing better than Laf....similar production, but you notice Kakko a lot more when he is out there than Laf.

 

[Profet]

Throwing out all stats....I just want to notice Laf on the ice.....the vast majority of the time he is on the ice, he's unnoticeable. Now, that can be a good thing if he's being effective and doing stuff that goes unnoticed (getting into lanes, etc.)....but if the production is lacking, I'd like to see him much more involved.....be on the puck more....agitate....make his presence felt - on a consistent basis. This is where I think Kakko is doing better than Laf....similar production, but you notice Kakko a lot more when he is out there than Laf.

Kakko also likes to carry the puck in traffic. Something Laf really hasn't done. Not that that is a requirement, just an observation.

 

[Rongomania]

Kakko also likes to carry the puck in traffic. Something Laf really hasn't done. Not that that is a requirement, just an observation.

Yeah certain aspects of Kaks game make Laf look like shit and last summer it was very vice-versa to some here and within our fanbase and media.

 

[IDvsEGO]

I agree they should give him more time up top 5 on 5 with Mika, but im seeing this "excuse" amongst a lot of articles.

Lets not forget he was given this chance mulitple times. He was given time there two seasons ago. He started camp up there last season and was given several games with Mika to start the season. He didnt stick.

You could say he wasnt given a long leash which is fair (certainly the case for Kakko imo) but he also didnt make it a very difficult decision for Gallant, on a loaded team that was coming off a conference finals appearance.

Laf needs to seize his opportunity just as much as he needs to be given more of them. Its a two way street at this point. Especially this season. If he doesnt, is he a bust? No. Not the case imo.

So I've seen this point repeated.
"He's been given this chance multiple times"

No, he was given a game or two with constantly being pulled.
Quinn gave him a longer leash on the first line in that first season, but it was 10 games or so, in that broken covid season.

Gallant gave him almost no time consistently on that top line. And thats what people are saying. Consistent time. Thats an opportunity.
Yeah there are players that take a single shift of opportunity and never look back. That didn't happen here, but if we want to win multiple cups, laffy needs to be a star.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Would give my right leg for a Kak/Laf break out season and literally shut every hockey 'mind' right the f*ck up.

They’re a simple way to let them break out but the Rangers won’t do it.

 

[haohmaru]

So I've seen this point repeated.
"He's been given this chance multiple times"

No, he was given a game or two with constantly being pulled.
Quinn gave him a longer leash on the first line in that first season, but it was 10 games or so, in that broken covid season.

Gallant gave him almost no time consistently on that top line. And thats what people are saying. Consistent time. Thats an opportunity.
Yeah there are players that take a single shift of opportunity and never look back. That didn't happen here, but if we want to win multiple cups, laffy needs to be a star.

Can he be, though?

I mean, he had more even strength ice time than Kreider did last year per game. More than Chytil. Ten seconds less than Kakko. Forty three seconds less than Zibanejad.

The narrative that "he hasn't been given a chance" is an 8 out of 10 on the bullshit meter. Which LW are you knocking off the PP to stick him in there? Panarin? Kreider? What if he folds under that pressure of not being able to replace the even strength and PP points that those two beasts do? It might make matters even worse.

The Rangers need to be patient with both of these players. If the "star" comes out then he'll get the time he deserves.

 

[IDvsEGO]

Can he be, though?

I mean, he had more even strength ice time than Kreider did last year per game. More than Chytil. Ten seconds less than Kakko. Forty three seconds less than Zibanejad.

The narrative that "he hasn't been given a chance" is an 8 out of 10 on the bullshit meter. Which LW are you knocking off the PP to stick him in there? Panarin? Kreider? What if he folds under that pressure of not being able to replace the even strength and PP points that those two beasts do? It might make matters even worse.

The Rangers need to be patient with both of these players. If the "star" comes out then he'll get the time he deserves.

Ok so theres 3 different concepts in this.

You have first, he had more ES time than a bunch of players. And did well with it. He outscored Mika at 5v5, with less time. You want to argue Mika is some scrub player?
You also claim he has been given plenty of time, and then point out, hey we've got 2 really good players there. So which is it? Either he doesn't deserve the time because he has had it, or he doesn't deserve it because he hasn't done better than them in non pp situations.

As for the folding - you dont know until you try, and quite frankly, until you give him the actual time, no one knows. Unless EVERY SINGLE SCOUT was wrong about him? Like I understand the argument that he's not producing like a 1oa, but any argument that pre-draft he wasn't the absolute consensus is revisionist history.
Additionally, his contract, the rangers cap situation, and expectations , sitting him there on the 3rd line, with no pp time, the rangers arent going to improve, he's unlikely to make any massive improvements, so we're back to square 1. I understand preaching patience, but theres also giving him the opportunity to shine. He's been buried due to bad luck, lets give him a legit shot.
If he flames out, then we know what he is. If he doesnt, the rangers are in a really good place.

 

[haohmaru]

Ok so theres 3 different concepts in this.

You have first, he had more ES time than a bunch of players. And did well with it. He outscored Mika at 5v5, with less time. You want to argue Mika is some scrub player?
You also claim he has been given plenty of time, and then point out, hey we've got 2 really good players there. So which is it? Either he doesn't deserve the time because he has had it, or he doesn't deserve it because he hasn't done better than them in non pp situations.

Mika had 50 even strength points. Lafreniere had 39 points. TOTAL.

It's both. He can have had opportunity and not done enough with it AND have two better players in front of him. Both can be true. Lafreniere's numbers on the PP are absolutely abysmal and part of that is starting in your own end on a change, for sure.

As for the folding - you dont know until you try, and quite frankly, until you give him the actual time, no one knows. Unless EVERY SINGLE SCOUT was wrong about him? Like I understand the argument that he's not producing like a 1oa, but any argument that pre-draft he wasn't the absolute consensus is revisionist history.
Additionally, his contract, the rangers cap situation, and expectations , sitting him there on the 3rd line, with no pp time, the rangers arent going to improve, he's unlikely to make any massive improvements, so we're back to square 1. I understand preaching patience, but theres also giving him the opportunity to shine. He's been buried due to bad luck, lets give him a legit shot.
If he flames out, then we know what he is. If he doesnt, the rangers are in a really good place.

Who said anything about folding? Was this directed to me?

I'm all for starting him on the RW with Panarin and Chytil/Trocheck and the 2nd PP unit which, hopefully with a new coach, gets more time and has a little more balance.

When you watch Lafreniere are you telling yourself there's a guy who is screaming with talent and being treated unfairly?

Not me. I see him and absolutely nothing stands out most of the time. And this is going on year four. I don't see how getting him 2 extra minutes a game is going to make him spontaneously become a superstar.

I hope he figures it out. I really do.

As for scouts - I'm sure every single one is looking back at that draft and trying to learn something from it and why/how they were so wrong to this point.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Can he be, though?

I mean, he had more even strength ice time than Kreider did last year per game. More than Chytil. Ten seconds less than Kakko. Forty three seconds less than Zibanejad.

The narrative that "he hasn't been given a chance" is an 8 out of 10 on the bullshit meter. Which LW are you knocking off the PP to stick him in there? Panarin? Kreider? What if he folds under that pressure of not being able to replace the even strength and PP points that those two beasts do? It might make matters even worse.

The Rangers need to be patient with both of these players. If the "star" comes out then he'll get the time he deserves.

You don’t have to remove a LW from the PP. Get rid of Trochek and put a LHS there , either Kakko or Laf or even Chytil