We stole Strome from Edmonton for Spooner.
Best trade Jeff Gorton ever made.
Trouba was also a trade.
Player Discussion Alexis Lafreniere
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Best trade Jeff Gorton ever made.
Trouba was also a trade.
JCProdigy
Registered User
While I follow and don't disagree with most of what you are saying as it relates to this situation, I do have to push back on the above because it doesn't follow logically.
Saying that a first overall pick never had the potential to be either a first line play driver (Kreider) or an all-star winger (Panarin) doesn't connect with me because that's the baseline expectation/potential for all first overall picks. (Really top 3 to 5 picks in a given draft)
If Lafreniere would have shown it by now then wouldn't the same hold true for Kreider and Panarin? I would really like to see anybody's posts here or elsewhere back in the day stating "Hey there is this 21 year old kid in Russia that just had 18 pts in 40 games but I think he's going to be a Hart finalist one day." We'll never get to see what a 21 year old Panarin looked like in the NHL but there definitely is a non-zero chance that it wouldn't have been pretty nor successful.
Obviously Lafreniere's potential looks to be lowered now. That's primarily on him and his lack of ability. Not questioning that and as I've stated before, most NHL GMs and coaches will do what they think is best to win in the short term because their long-term job status is not guaranteed.
And it was against a forward....
A first overall pick simply means that that the team drafting #1 believes the player has the potential to be a better player than anyone else in the draft.
It does not convey anything about the players' ceiling or ability. Just how they relate to their draft year peers.
You cant say never will. I still think he can be over a PPG. I think his usage has been crap and his coaching has been crap.
If we are banking on kreider and panarin to win us a cup. We already lost. Kreider will never replicate what he did 2 seasons ago and we didnt even make the SCF that year.
Laf and Kakko are the keys. They need to be given a real chance. They need to be integrated the top 6 and truthfully need to somehow get top PP time.
Panarin while great in regular season, disappears in playoffs so i dont really care if he has less time at all.
Kreider can be effective in front of the net on either PP unit so i dont care if he gets less pp time.
Trochrck just needs less pp time in general.
This team needs the kids to start taking the reins. Especially laf and kakko. Its the only way we will have a legit shot at winning the cup.
Kreider, zib and panarin are not good enough.
And maybe you’re right and laff and kakko wont be either. But they need to be given a real shot like most other top picks.
JCProdigy
Registered User
Sorry, I'd like to believe that and on the surface that can be true but in reality what you have said just isn't true in any of the drafts of the last 10 years. Show me where any person in the hockey world said that Lafreniere's draft was a weak draft and Laf was just the best of a mediocre bunch. Show me where his pre-draft potential wasn't projected to be as a first line winger.
HockeyBasedNYC
Feeling it
Agree
Every player and situation is different.
Not saying this will happen nor do I think it will with Laf, but you look at former 1OAs who were late bloomers like RNH and Lecavalier and anything is possible.
Strome was acquired in a trade, Trouba in a trade, goodrow in a trade.
Yeah trocheck was a ufa.
Harbour Dog
Registered User
He was also the WJC MVP as a 17 year old, and nobody was surprised.
Amazing Kreiderman
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I’d be ecstatic if Laf became a 60 point player. I’d be over the moon if he ever reached a higher ceiling and beside myself if he has even one or two point per game seasons.
Either Laf or Kakko doing so dramatically increases the strength of our chances. I’m ready for it any time. Unfortunately, based solely on my personal eye test after watching him for 3 years, my expectations are a run of the mill 50 point middle six player. I just haven’t seen anything that speaks to greater destiny than that.
I see him having a similar career to Alex Killorn. I see them as similar players. Killorn is 33 now and just had 64 points for the first time. He had 59 before that. Most of his career he was around a 50 point guy with physical tools. I honestly don’t know if I can think of a better comp for Laf. Killorn is a useful player, for sure, but it’s gonna take some patience for him to get there and that’s still quite disappointing for 1OA.
Either Laf or Kakko doing so dramatically increases the strength of our chances. I’m ready for it any time. Unfortunately, based solely on my personal eye test after watching him for 3 years, my expectations are a run of the mill 50 point middle six player. I just haven’t seen anything that speaks to greater destiny than that.
I see him having a similar career to Alex Killorn. I see them as similar players. Killorn is 33 now and just had 64 points for the first time. He had 59 before that. Most of his career he was around a 50 point guy with physical tools. I honestly don’t know if I can think of a better comp for Laf. Killorn is a useful player, for sure, but it’s gonna take some patience for him to get there and that’s still quite disappointing for 1OA.
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Laffy is already a better player than Killorn and his usage has been less than Killorn has ever had to deal with.
Terrible comparison, imo.
I think you'll be pleasantly surprised when you look back on Laffys career one day in the future
will1066
If you score four, you better f'n win the game
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Hahaha. Yeah. I’ve been lurking here and there, but leaving it all be. I’m just going to let it all unfold this season and hopefully enjoy it.Glad to see I left this thread and @bhamill left it and simply new people took over the same exhausted arguments we made! Has the puck dropped on this season so we can argue how invisible Laf is most shifts rather than having to speculate why he is invisible most shifts?
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My take is similar to what others posted: we aren’t winning if the young players don’t take steps, so throw them into the deep end and let them sink or swim. If you believe they’ve truly gotten the opportunities almost all other high picks get, if you believe the team has truly invested in their development, then we have a fundamental disagreement that makes common ground practically impossible and you may as well stop reading now.
IMO, we need to commit to putting Laf and Kakko especially, and other young guys as well, in more responsible roles and give Laf, Kakko and maybe Chytil, true power play opportunity. At LEAST for the first half of the season. We need to do all we can to facilitate them taking the next step. Kreider will NOT regress in ability by being relied on less, nor will any other vets. They will still be just as good. And in fact may be fresher for the post season if they aren’t as heavily relied on for 84 games. The only downside is the growing pains young players inevitably will go through in this scenario. If they fail completely and dont step up, at least we KNOW where we stand and what we need. And even if the team flounders so badly that we miss the playoffs… fine. In that scenario we aren’t Cup Contenders anyway, as these vets have demonstrated they can’t carry us in the post season, so we may as well have better draft position. If they DO take the next step, we should make the playoffs AND have a better chance of contending.
The status quo just stagnates this team at a level where we are a good regular season team that can’t win it all. I don’t know about you, but I’m tired of that. I’d rather roll the dice and find out.
IMO, we need to commit to putting Laf and Kakko especially, and other young guys as well, in more responsible roles and give Laf, Kakko and maybe Chytil, true power play opportunity. At LEAST for the first half of the season. We need to do all we can to facilitate them taking the next step. Kreider will NOT regress in ability by being relied on less, nor will any other vets. They will still be just as good. And in fact may be fresher for the post season if they aren’t as heavily relied on for 84 games. The only downside is the growing pains young players inevitably will go through in this scenario. If they fail completely and dont step up, at least we KNOW where we stand and what we need. And even if the team flounders so badly that we miss the playoffs… fine. In that scenario we aren’t Cup Contenders anyway, as these vets have demonstrated they can’t carry us in the post season, so we may as well have better draft position. If they DO take the next step, we should make the playoffs AND have a better chance of contending.
The status quo just stagnates this team at a level where we are a good regular season team that can’t win it all. I don’t know about you, but I’m tired of that. I’d rather roll the dice and find out.
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Amazing Kreiderman
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And if they sink, we aren't winning anything so all the better to start trading away guys for max returns, like Mika, Kreider, Trouba, Panarin, and start the rebuild again while some young building blocks like Miller and Fox are young enough to see the other side.
For this season, I'm all for seeing what he can do in a Top 6 role and all, but I can't help but worry about what that is going to look like. Unlike most of the other kids, I just don't see that extra gear with him. I want to be wrong, but worried he is closer to Lias or Kravtsov than Kakko or Chytil at this point.
OthmannOut
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