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Player Discussion Alexis Lafrenière

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PainForShane said:
Of course you don't give him away -- Laf is a potential / likely point a game guy who already has an edge, Chychrun is a potential / likely 1D who is already a good 2nd pair (on any team, 1st pair on many) and has an elite shot. If you are on a win-now timeline Chych fits that better than Laf, Laf fits our win-later (ever?) timeline better.

If you guys think I'm completely out to lunch (sounds like you do), that's fine and all the info I was looking for. Thanks for the input!
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When I said "give him away" I wasn't talking about Chych so much as the "get what you can for him" crowd. Completely out to lunch? Nope. I'd just say we disagree on their relative values to this team. Our top four D right now are set. Who would Chychryn replace? Lindgren? Would Chychrun be THAT a big an upgrade over Lindgen that it's worth giving up Laf? Not in my opinion. And down the road I believe we lose that one big time.
 
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PainForShane said:
Of course you don't give him away -- Laf is a potential / likely point a game guy who already has an edge, Chychrun is a potential / likely 1D who is already a good 2nd pair (on any team, 1st pair on many) and has an elite shot. If you are on a win-now timeline Chych fits that better than Laf, Laf fits our win-later (ever?) timeline better.

If you guys think I'm completely out to lunch (sounds like you do), that's fine and all the info I was looking for. Thanks for the input!
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Chychrun for Lafreniere is terrible value for the Rangers and dramatically undersells Lafreniere's potential. It's just not close.

It's not even close to close.
 
i think it was a good idea to scratch him last night. the guy has never played a full season in his life and it was a back to back at the end of the season. give him a nice few days off. rest and recovery is a bigger thing than people realize, especially for a young player. people think because they're young it doesn't bother them, but they are not used to this level of grind yet.
 
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bhamill said:
When I said "give him away" I wasn't talking about Chych so much as the "get what you can for him" crowd. Completely out to lunch? Nope. I'd just say we disagree on their relative values to this team. Our top four D right now are set. Who would Chychryn replace? Lindgren? Would Chychrun be THAT a big an upgrade over Lindgen that it's worth giving up Laf? Not in my opinion. And down the road I believe we lose that one big time.
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That's a fair take. Personally think Chych would absolutely be an improvement on Lindgren in the short, medium, and long term (they're the same age but Chych has somewhat of a head start) -- Chychrun and Fox... I mean that's easily one of the best 2 or 3 pairs in hockey as soon as a year from now. Keep in mind Chychrun's done what he's done on the Coyotes, we're not exactly the best team in the league. Not saying Lindgren is bad by any means (plus good chemistry with Fox) but Chych / Fox / Shesterkin is already absolutely sick, and Chychrun will get even better the same way all of Lindgren, Miller, Laf will. Also the added dimension on offense after Fox figures him out after the first 10 or 20 games or so playing together, no team will be able to compete with that.

It does take a top 4 spot from Miller though (not ideal), and I agree that Miller should and likely will become a good D if he isn't there already. I just think Chych + Fox would be so, so dominant it might be worth a point a game top-six winger assuming Laf gets there, esp if you're in win-now mode.

Anyway good to see you guys are valuing Laf highly (as you should be), agree Laf has done relatively well this year with limited opportunity, agree he has a good chance for a long career at around a point a game. Not a bust by any means, not even close (though I would still take Auston Matthews or MacK over him, maybe that is just me). Thanks again for you thoughts here
 
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PainForShane said:
That's a fair take. Personally think Chych would absolutely be an improvement on Lindgren in the short, medium, and long term (they're the same age but Chych has somewhat of a head start) -- Chychrun and Fox... I mean that's easily one of the best 2 or 3 pairs in hockey as soon as a year from now. Keep in mind Chychrun's done what he's done on the Coyotes, we're not exactly the best team in the league. Not saying Lindgren is bad by any means (plus good chemistry with Fox) but Chych / Fox / Shesterkin is already absolutely sick, and Chychrun will get even better the same way all of Lindgren, Miller, Laf will. Also the added dimension on offense after Fox figures him out after the first 10 or 20 games or so playing together, no team will be able to compete with that.

It does take a top 4 spot from Miller though (not ideal), and I agree that Miller should and likely will become a good D if he isn't there already. I just think Chych + Fox would be so, so dominant it might be worth a point a game top-six winger assuming Laf gets there, esp if you're in win-now mode.

Anyway good to see you guys are valuing Laf highly (as you should be), agree Laf has done relatively well this year with limited opportunity, agree he has a good chance for a long career at around a point a game. Not a bust by any means, not even close (though I would still take Auston Matthews or MacK over him, maybe that is just me). Thanks again for you thoughts here
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I think what he was saying is that for him to consider trading Lafreniere, he would need another team to seriously overpay. So he would be part of a package for an elite player, like Matthews or MacKinnon. I think it's pretty obvious he wasn't saying that he would take Lafreniere over Matthews or MacKinnon.

He is saying he wouldn't trade him to upgrade one spot at our deepest position other than LW (defense). Frankly, neither would I, nor any other Ranger fans. The Rangers would be stupid to trade Laf, even if they are in "win-now mode" (they are in a hybrid state, but whatever). They are better off letting him "bust" until he's 23-24 than trading him for a guy like Chychrun, who is a good player, but doesn't really move the needle that much with our defensive depth.

For one, he would arguably not even be on the PP - he'd be in competition with Trouba and Miller for PP2 minutes (20-30 seconds) and maybe he would win that, but Miller is developing into a Hedman-like player. Eventually he will take that role. He is also a completely different player than Lindgren. Fox needs a bigger, stronger D partner with defensive acumen, not another guy who is an offensive minded defenseman. I don't really think Fox would fit well with Chychrun, honestly.

If the Coyotes can get Lafreniere or another similar player for Chychrun, I would be shocked. I could see them getting a 1st and a good prospect, plus maybe a minor roster player or another pick, largely because his contract would be viewed as a value deal and the Coyotes can even retain, but it shouldn't be from the Rangers.
 
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Laf is not being traded. Just needs to give more effort and find a way not to go 8 games without a point. Whether a blessing or a curse the Rangers have too many legit NHL players right now. Reeves and Hunt are the guys who may sit in the future.
 
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NickyFotiu said:
Laf is not being traded. Just needs to give more effort and find a way not to go 8 games without a point. Whether a blessing or a curse the Rangers have too many legit NHL players right now. Reeves and Hunt are the guys who may sit in the future.
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I have never thought for one second that Laf's effort has ever been less than total.
 
jerseyjinx94 said:
I think what he was saying is that for him to consider trading Lafreniere, he would need another team to seriously overpay. So he would be part of a package for an elite player, like Matthews or MacKinnon. I think it's pretty obvious he wasn't saying that he would take Lafreniere over Matthews or MacKinnon.

He is saying he wouldn't trade him to upgrade one spot at our deepest position other than LW (defense). Frankly, neither would I, nor any other Ranger fans. The Rangers would be stupid to trade Laf, even if they are in "win-now mode" (they are in a hybrid state, but whatever). They are better off letting him "bust" until he's 23-24 than trading him for a guy like Chychrun, who is a good player, but doesn't really move the needle that much with our defensive depth.

For one, he would arguably not even be on the PP - he'd be in competition with Trouba and Miller for PP2 minutes (20-30 seconds) and maybe he would win that, but Miller is developing into a Hedman-like player. Eventually he will take that role. He is also a completely different player than Lindgren. Fox needs a bigger, stronger D partner with defensive acumen, not another guy who is an offensive minded defenseman. I don't really think Fox would fit well with Chychrun, honestly.

If the Coyotes can get Lafreniere or another similar player for Chychrun, I would be shocked. I could see them getting a 1st and a good prospect, plus maybe a minor roster player or another pick, largely because his contract would be viewed as a value deal and the Coyotes can even retain, but it shouldn't be from the Rangers.
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I'm not sure what he was saying -- he hung up during the call and now our franchises are not on speaking terms. Which is too bad, he might have had some interesting ideas somewhere in his post, but they were buried under way too much salt (even for a New Yorker).

Also understand that a) NYR doesn't want to give on Laf too early and b) you guys rate Miller very highly (understandable, he should be a good player). I do still think that Chych is a significant upgrade on him both now and in the long term (Norris votes don't come often esp for 22 yos playing on bad teams, Chych is also getting better), but we're allowed to have opinions and we're certainly allowed to value the players on our own teams. Also I've seen more of Chych and you've seen more of Miller, anyway who really knows we'll see in the next few years.

Re: Chychrun's style of play, that's a longer discussion but I do think he'd fit extremely well with Fox. Chych plays a simple yet effective offensive game (pass to the open guy or launch bombs from the point), I think Fox has enough vision and creativity to offensively involve that type of player extremely effectively. But, I see where you're coming from if you're looking for a Jeff Beukeboom stay-at-home physical type to go with Fox's Brian Leetch rushes then that is not Chychrun at all.

Anyway good luck the rest of the year and good luck with Laf, hope you guys figure out how to deploy him well, it can't be easy for a young kid with talent to start a career stuck behind Panarin and 50-goal scorer Chris Kreider (what a season he is having). I think most hockey fans want him to succeed (I know I do), hopefully he gets there
 
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NickyFotiu said:
Laf is not being traded. Just needs to give more effort and find a way not to go 8 games without a point. Whether a blessing or a curse the Rangers have too many legit NHL players right now. Reeves and Hunt are the guys who may sit in the future.
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I don't think we should be too concerned about Laf honestly.

This is a good problem. On a shit team he's playing 1st line and 1st PP unit minutes and he has near Stutzle numbers. On a deep team ready for a playoff run he's right where he should be, on the 3rd line.

Before the deadline when he was playing up he was on that 6 game point streak and went 5G, 7A, 12P in 16G - so we know the kid has it in him.

As Gallant said, this is just a breather. People think too much into it. The kid is 20 years old and skipped an entire year of hockey. And you can do this type of stuff because he's got a great head on his shoulders and understands the process. He isn't going to go crying back to Quebec.

Take a little pressure off the kid now for the last 1/4 of the season. The most important thing is he will get some really good stretch drive and playoff experience. He will be a big part of it.

He has a flair for the dramatic and we'll see how his game translates to the postseason, when the game is different and players are measured with a different stick. I think his game will translate well and he will rise to the occasion.

Lots of rest time coming up. Recharge. They should do this with a lot of the players, if they can. A lot of hockey has been played
 
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chosen said:
I have never thought for one second that Laf's effort has ever been less than total.
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Never been a player on any level that gave 100% on every shift of his life. Laf has a lot more to give. That does not mean he is not trying. I just know he has more to give. He is more than a 25 point player.
 
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HockeyBasedNYC said:
I don't think we should be too concerned about Laf honestly.

This is a good problem. On a shit team he's playing 1st line and 1st PP unit minutes and he has near Stutzle numbers. On a deep team ready for a playoff run he's right where he should be, on the 3rd line.

Before the deadline when he was playing up he was on that 6 game point streak and went 5G, 7A, 12P in 16G - so we know the kid has it in him.

As Gallant said, this is just a breather. People think too much into it. The kid is 20 years old and skipped an entire year of hockey. And you can do this type of stuff because he's got a great head on his shoulders and understands the process. He isn't going to go crying back to Quebec.

Take a little pressure off the kid now for the last 1/4 of the season. The most important thing is he will get some really good stretch drive and playoff experience. He will be a big part of it.

He has a flair for the dramatic and we'll see how his game translates to the postseason, when the game is different and players are measured with a different stick. I think his game will translate well and he will rise to the occasion.

Lots of rest time coming up. Recharge. They should do this with a lot of the players, if they can. A lot of hockey has been played
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Well said. We will need to show some patience.
 
Doctyl said:
If we’re gonna f*** around with him with this shit, just trade him for Chychrun. I don’t care anymore
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that would be the move. Shore up 6 D for the long term, no holes at LW since we're deep there, give Fox a better partner.... i'd be happy with the trade, even if he goes on to score 80 points in Phoenix
 
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HockeyBasedNYC said:
I don't think we should be too concerned about Laf honestly.

This is a good problem. On a shit team he's playing 1st line and 1st PP unit minutes and he has near Stutzle numbers. On a deep team ready for a playoff run he's right where he should be, on the 3rd line.

Before the deadline when he was playing up he was on that 6 game point streak and went 5G, 7A, 12P in 16G - so we know the kid has it in him.

As Gallant said, this is just a breather. People think too much into it. The kid is 20 years old and skipped an entire year of hockey. And you can do this type of stuff because he's got a great head on his shoulders and understands the process. He isn't going to go crying back to Quebec.

Take a little pressure off the kid now for the last 1/4 of the season. The most important thing is he will get some really good stretch drive and playoff experience. He will be a big part of it.

He has a flair for the dramatic and we'll see how his game translates to the postseason, when the game is different and players are measured with a different stick. I think his game will translate well and he will rise to the occasion.

Lots of rest time coming up. Recharge. They should do this with a lot of the players, if they can. A lot of hockey has been played
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A breather for a player that already plays very limited minutes? If Gallant is going to start with giving breathers out, I'd start with Fox. Dude looks tired out there.
 
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Wanted to be in French Canada probably even more so now.
I hope he can at least be a grinder and chip in few playoff goals. One thing he is for sure is not made of glass
 
EdJovanovski said:


Taken off PP2 as well
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To be fair, right now, he's putting up less points than all of those other forwards. There are times I like his game, but he hasn't earned the time over anyone other than, arguably, Chytil on the PP2 unit. Chytil gives them a bit more speed.

I think he'll end up a top line player, but not for another year or two at least. He just needs time.

While I thought he fit in well on RW on the first line, it's clear Drury and Gallant are in "win now mode" with the TDL moves. And they like Vatrano in that spot. And really who can blame them with how he's played?

It sucks, but nothing is guaranteed in this sport. Laf has to earn his minutes like Kakko is.
 
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