Player Discussion Alexis Lafrenière

[PuckLuck3043]

DuderDu

Preposterous you say...

He said he loves playing in msg, everyone says that. My God, that's what you're going with.

It's funny you tell me he and trouba are buds and after I point out that isn't the case you switch to other their relationship is fine now. You can love the move and I can be skeptical of it. Let's move on

Dude, It is preposterous if you think that a 37yo player is coming to the Rangers for 800k to help him sign a better deal after this season when he turns 38. This is a terrible take. Stop thinking you are smarter than everybody else and stop making stuff up. Like I have already stated he has put up 4 straight years around 50-60 points and he is not going to greatly increase those point totals playing with Panarin or Mika. This is pure fantasy. He is what he is. A solid, still productive, 6'5" 220lb aging vet who can help the team playing Top 9 RW minutes which is a position of need and a guy who wants to win. There are reports that he called Trouba to ask some questions before agreeing to the deal and that would make sense since Trouba is Captain and they used to play together. You or I have no idea what the exact relationship is behind closed doors.

 

[bleedblue94]

DuderDu

Dude, It is preposterous if you think that a 37yo player is coming to the Rangers for 800k to help him sign a better deal after this season when he turns 38. This is a terrible take. Stop thinking you are smarter than everybody else and stop making stuff up. Like I have already stated he has put up 4 straight years around 50-60 points and he is not going to greatly increase those point totals playing with Panarin or Mika. This is pure fantasy. He is what he is. A solid, still productive, 6'5" 220lb aging vet who can help the team playing Top 9 RW minutes which is a position of need and a guy who wants to win. There are reports that he called Trouba to ask some questions before agreeing to the deal and that would make sense since Trouba is Captain and they used to play together. You or I have no idea what the exact relationship is behind closed doors.

You are so hung up on point totals. That's working out really good around here eh?

And yes, he is looking to rebuild value. I will literally delete my account if after this season things were so good that he decides to comeback for even 1m a year as opposed to cashing in for 2 years here or elsewhere.

 

[SA16]

DuderDu

Dude, It is preposterous if you think that a 37yo player is coming to the Rangers for 800k to help him sign a better deal after this season when he turns 38. This is a terrible take. Stop thinking you are smarter than everybody else and stop making stuff up. Like I have already stated he has put up 4 straight years around 50-60 points and he is not going to greatly increase those point totals playing with Panarin or Mika. This is pure fantasy. He is what he is. A solid, still productive, 6'5" 220lb aging vet who can help the team playing Top 9 RW minutes which is a position of need and a guy who wants to win. There are reports that he called Trouba to ask some questions before agreeing to the deal and that would make sense since Trouba is Captain and they used to play together. You or I have no idea what the exact relationship is behind closed doors.

Just going to neglect that three of those "four straight years" were 65 in 71, 46 in 50, and 60 in 65 then?

 

[JHS]

Where are you getting this?

From the fact that Laf has been exactly the same player in every year he’s played with the same deficiencies and no showed during the playoffs and 50% of his games last year in a contract year. You better hope it’s a lack of will and not a lack of skill but most likely it’s both.

 

[PuckLuck3043]

Just going to neglect that three of those "four straight years" were 65 in 71, 46 in 50, and 60 in 65 then?

I was speaking in general terms. My point is his plan is not to use the Rangers and Panarin solely to increase his value so much that he can sign this big contract at the age of 38. He's not going to turn into this 80-90 point player because he is playing with Panarin or Mika. I would be thrilled with 60. It didn't help Tarasenko and it didn't help Kane while they were here. They were basically the same PPG players they were for their previous teams last year. For all we know he could retire after this year. He wants to win now and he thinks he can do that with the Rangers. Novel concept I know. Some people just want to galaxy brain everything.

 

[haohmaru]

Wheeler wants to win. Thinking he's playing for $ next year, when he's 38, is kind of bizarre.

 

[PuckLuck3043]

You are so hung up on point totals. That's working out really good around here eh?

And yes, he is looking to rebuild value. I will literally delete my account if after this season things were so good that he decides to comeback for even 1m a year as opposed to cashing in for 2 years here or elsewhere.

You keep saying he is looking to rebuild value and then you say I'm hung up on points. WTF do you think will increase his value that he is going to sign this multiple year contract at age 38? POINTS. People aren't going to look to sign an aging then 38yo RW unless he has a productive year and his production will be measured mainly by points. I am being realistic in thinking he will maintain 55-60 point production which could help this team a great deal. I don't think he does any better than that and I don't think he is looking beyond this year at all. He could retire after this year for all we know.

Wheeler wants to win. Thinking he's playing for $ next year, when he's 38, is kind of bizarre.

Very.

 

[bleedblue94]

You keep saying he is looking to rebuild value and then you say I'm hung up on points. WTF do you think will increase his value that he is going to sign this multiple year contract at age 38? POINTS. People aren't going to look to sign an aging then 38yo RW unless he has a productive year and his production will be measured mainly by points. I am being realistic in thinking he will maintain 55-60 point production which could help this team a great deal. I don't think he does any better than that and I don't think he is looking beyond this year at all. He could retire after this year for all we know.


Very.

The bolded is WHY I don't want him here. This is the exact point. Our whole f***ing forward group is obsessed w cookies and points. You're finally getting it. They don't commit to the other facets of the game that lead to team playoff success.

You literally just said he will be focused on getting points and yet you've been all over me that he isn't worried about rebuilding value. Points are what get people paid. Connect the dots, you just did it on accident.

I will say it again for the people in the back that apparently don't actually want to read what I'm saying and would rather just argue: I don't dislike wheeler, I don't think he's a scrub, I do think he is a productive NHL player, but most importantly I do not believe he does anything to address the deficiencies of this forward group that already exist. We worried about a rw that gets points at the deadline and it was a mistake, we needed a motor guy like barbashev. Sometimes the best players aren't the right players to compliment what you have and address the deficiencies in the team/roster construction. In this case I think it's the same thing where wheeler does not address our lack of speed (he's 38 which isn't his fault), our lack of crease crashing, the defensive awareness of our forward group, or our lack of commitments/intensity to the forecheck.

He's not a bad player by any stretch, but he is a point getter which isn't what this team is lacking at the current time. We were 12th in the league in goals last year...

 

[LaffyTaffyNYR]

The bolded is WHY I don't want him here. This is the exact point. Our whole f***ing forward group is obsessed w cookies and points. You're finally getting it. They don't commit to the other facets of the game that lead to team playoff success.

You literally just said he will be focused on getting points and yet you've been all over me that he isn't worried about rebuilding value. Points are what get people paid. Connect the dots, you just did it on accident.

I will say it again for the people in the back that apparently don't actually want to read what I'm saying and would rather just argue: I don't dislike wheeler, I don't think he's a scrub, I do think he is a productive NHL player, but most importantly I do not believe he does anything to address the deficiencies of this forward group that already exist. We worried about a rw that gets points at the deadline and it was a mistake, we needed a motor guy like barbashev. Sometimes the best players aren't the right players to compliment what you have and address the deficiencies in the team/roster construction. In this case I think it's the same thing where wheeler does not address our lack of speed (he's 38 which isn't his fault), our lack of crease crashing, the defensive awareness of our forward group, or our lack of commitments/intensity to the forecheck.

He's not a bad player by any stretch, but he is a point getter which isn't what this team is lacking at the current time. We were 12th in the league in goals last year...

Wheeler crashes the net and forechecks. I had center ice and I watched a lot of hockey. The one thing he gives outside of points is effort. The speed thing is valid.

 

[bleedblue94]

Wheeler crashes the net and forechecks. I had center ice and I watched a lot of hockey. The one thing he gives outside of points is effort. The speed thing is valid.

His effort is selective. The jets have literally been one of my 3 fav western teams to watch each night. I enjoy their game presentation, I enjoy the jets historically, and I have been constantly intrigued with their roster and it's potential. Wheeler doesn't give those things consistently. I'm sure he will at the start of the year but it will tail off like it normally does. Blake wheeler is one of the reasons Maurice up and quit halfway through the season in Winnipeg. He's not this great guy and awesome player some here want to make him to be. He's a good NHL player but he's not the type of player this team/roster is missing. He's a 38 year old point getting who will be spoonfed top 6 mins and pp time. Remind me if we've seen this song and dance before...

 

[NickyFotiu]

Wheeler crashes the net and forechecks. I had center ice and I watched a lot of hockey. The one thing he gives outside of points is effort. The speed thing is valid.

Im hoping his work ethic will be a good example for some other Rangers.

 

[bleedblue94]

I was speaking in general terms. My point is his plan is not to use the Rangers and Panarin solely to increase his value so much that he can sign this big contract at the age of 38. He's not going to turn into this 80-90 point player because he is playing with Panarin or Mika. I would be thrilled with 60. It didn't help Tarasenko and it didn't help Kane while they were here. They were basically the same PPG players they were for their previous teams last year. For all we know he could retire after this year. He wants to win now and he thinks he can do that with the Rangers. Novel concept I know. Some people just want to galaxy brain everything.

Rangers have a deep history of winning championships...

 

[NickyFotiu]

His effort is selective. The jets have literally been one of my 3 fav western teams to watch each night. I enjoy their game presentation, I enjoy the jets historically, and I have been constantly intrigued with their roster and it's potential. Wheeler doesn't give those things consistently. I'm sure he will at the start of the year but it will tail off like it normally does. Blake wheeler is one of the reasons Maurice up and quit halfway through the season in Winnipeg. He's not this great guy and awesome player some here want to make him to be. He's a good NHL player but he's not the type of player this team/roster is missing. He's a 38 year old point getting who will be spoonfed top 6 mins and pp time. Remind me if we've seen this song and dance before...

The good thing about you and bad thing about Lavi is you already know who will be playing top 6 minutes but our coach doesn't.

 

[bleedblue94]

The good thing about you and bad thing about Lavi is you already know who will be playing top 6 minutes but our coach doesn't.

I just do the breakdown. The only way wheeler isn't in the top 6 is if laffy suddenly can play rw at a good level and they decide to move vesey to 3lw. It doesn't make sense to put two players out of position.

I would be surprised if after all the obligatory juggling at the start of camp it doesn't look something like:

Kreider zib kakko/wheeler
Panarin chytil kakko/wheeler
Laffy trocheck vesey/fa/cable guy/zadina type

There just isn't a way that Wheeler isn't in the top 6. And that's not to say he's a bad player at all, he just doesn't change the dynamic of the group. Most 38 year olds won't. That group looks so vanilla... Again

 

[bleedblue94]

Right I get it but most people are motivated by money if not fame. These two seem to think the world is just gonna give them everything they want without any actual deserving of anything. That’s problematic on every level.

One thing about laffy that I noticed was odd was right from the start he just seemed to be one of the guys like he just showed up and made some jokes and everyone accepted him as an NHL player. I appreciated his easy going and laughable nature and some will hate this but the best young players that come in aren't the happy go lucky guys that seem satisfied to be in the league. The good ones and great ones are the focused ones that are on their details even as young kids and feel like they need to earn an NHL spot every day. I have never seen that for him as an NHL player, it has always seemed like "heres your spot Mr 1oa." It's always the giggling and laughing bullshit in the middle of games. An 18 year old Patrice bergeron would have broken his soul just staring at him. The level of comfort laffy showed right from the start oozes entitlement to me beyond something earned. I know people will hate that take and I'm fine with it but this again for me comes down to the type of atmosphere that has been bread around this team with the vets, it's the same shit that caused trouba to have a meltdown, and by meltdown I don't mean the helmet toss, I am talking about the LIVE interview he did that night which told people more about what has happening on and around the team than anything else last year. Pure look into the dysfunction, and it's the same atmosphere that both laffy and kakko have come up and through which isn't good for them or any player.

 

[Zarao71]

One thing about laffy that I noticed was odd was right from the start he just seemed to be one of the guys like he just showed up and made some jokes and everyone accepted him as an NHL player. I appreciated his easy going and laughable nature and some will hate this but the best young players that come in aren't the happy go lucky guys that seem satisfied to be in the league. The good ones and great ones are the focused ones that are on their details even as young kids and feel like they need to earn an NHL spot every day. I have never seen that for him as an NHL player, it has always seemed like "heres your spot Mr 1oa." It's always the giggling and laughing bullshit in the middle of games. An 18 year old Patrice bergeron would have broken his soul just staring at him. The level of comfort laffy showed right from the start oozes entitlement to me beyond something earned. I know people will hate that take and I'm fine with it but this again for me comes down to the type of atmosphere that has been bread around this team with the vets, it's the same shit that caused trouba to have a meltdown, and by meltdown I don't mean the helmet toss, I am talking about the LIVE interview he did that night which told people more about what has happening on and around the team than anything else last year. Pure look into the dysfunction, and it's the same atmosphere that both laffy and kakko have come up and through which isn't good for them or any player.

Agree 100%. Kinda takes me back to Jeter in his 2nd year with the 96 Yankees.
Yankees had a full on brawl with the Mariners and Jeter was seen chumming it up with ARod.
Posada was having none of that. Called him out publicly. You could argue that Jeter became a true pro form that point on.
I think these kids have gotten an easy pass from most of our vets. For all his warts Trouba seems to be the exception. Hopefully, Wheeler brings more of the same.

 

[Synergy27]

One thing about laffy that I noticed was odd was right from the start he just seemed to be one of the guys like he just showed up and made some jokes and everyone accepted him as an NHL player. I appreciated his easy going and laughable nature and some will hate this but the best young players that come in aren't the happy go lucky guys that seem satisfied to be in the league. The good ones and great ones are the focused ones that are on their details even as young kids and feel like they need to earn an NHL spot every day. I have never seen that for him as an NHL player, it has always seemed like "heres your spot Mr 1oa." It's always the giggling and laughing bullshit in the middle of games. An 18 year old Patrice bergeron would have broken his soul just staring at him. The level of comfort laffy showed right from the start oozes entitlement to me beyond something earned. I know people will hate that take and I'm fine with it but this again for me comes down to the type of atmosphere that has been bread around this team with the vets, it's the same shit that caused trouba to have a meltdown, and by meltdown I don't mean the helmet toss, I am talking about the LIVE interview he did that night which told people more about what has happening on and around the team than anything else last year. Pure look into the dysfunction, and it's the same atmosphere that both laffy and kakko have come up and through which isn't good for them or any player.

I agree and don’t hate this at all.

The margins at the top are tiny. The great players, besides a tiny minority of physical freaks, are great because they live and breathe the game. That isn’t taught. It’s bred into these people.

Laf ain’t that.

Kakko is a different animal. I think he might have that mindset but he’s just not consistently confident in himself.

 

[PuckLuck3043]

The bolded is WHY I don't want him here. This is the exact point. Our whole f***ing forward group is obsessed w cookies and points. You're finally getting it. They don't commit to the other facets of the game that lead to team playoff success.

You literally just said he will be focused on getting points and yet you've been all over me that he isn't worried about rebuilding value. Points are what get people paid. Connect the dots, you just did it on accident.

I will say it again for the people in the back that apparently don't actually want to read what I'm saying and would rather just argue: I don't dislike wheeler, I don't think he's a scrub, I do think he is a productive NHL player, but most importantly I do not believe he does anything to address the deficiencies of this forward group that already exist. We worried about a rw that gets points at the deadline and it was a mistake, we needed a motor guy like barbashev. Sometimes the best players aren't the right players to compliment what you have and address the deficiencies in the team/roster construction. In this case I think it's the same thing where wheeler does not address our lack of speed (he's 38 which isn't his fault), our lack of crease crashing, the defensive awareness of our forward group, or our lack of commitments/intensity to the forecheck.

He's not a bad player by any stretch, but he is a point getter which isn't what this team is lacking at the current time. We were 12th in the league in goals last year...

All I said is he will get paid based on his production by his next team if there is a next team. This is the case with nearly every player in the league. This is really not groundbreaking news and not a bad thing either. Most of the scoring on this team came from every position but RW. This is a real need. It was simply awful last year. Kakko - 40 points, Goodrow played top 6 RW minutes - 31 points, Vesey too - 25 points. That's got to be some of the worst RW production in the league and we got a 6'5" 220 big body guy who can help with that for 800k. This is a no brainer signing.

 

[jerseyjinx94]

From the fact that Laf has been exactly the same player in every year he’s played with the same deficiencies and no showed during the playoffs and 50% of his games last year in a contract year. You better hope it’s a lack of will and not a lack of skill but most likely it’s both.

Oh okay, so you’re just completely speculating

 

[JHS]

Oh okay, so you’re just completely speculating

Of course- did you expect anything else? But I believe the evidence certainly is there to say Laf is not exactly showing any drive to improve or if he is showing any— it’s very little.

 

[IchabodCrane]

You Guys know it can be both?

 

[NickyFotiu]

I do not hold where Laf was drafted against him. Some drafts are just not that great. Like 2017 when Nico was the #1 pick. That draft was not that great and in a redraft Makar probably goes #1 with Peterson going #2.

All I want from Laf is for him to give himself and the team the best chance to succeed. I want to hear about him like we hear about some other pro athletes in terms of effort. Give 100% in training and skating this offseason. Then 100% in games. If Laf does that I will not have any complaints regardless of stats.

 

[bhamill]

Lafreniere’s draft position is irrelevant as pertains to how good a player he is or isnt.
Lafreniere‘s draft position is totally relevant as pertains to people’s EXPECTATIONS on how good he should be.
They’re two separate things.
People who can’t separate them ignore that at 21 years old, in his D+3, Laf as a physical winger who scored at 0.5ppg, already has significant value. If he was a 25th overall we would all be pretty happy with him. Just like Panarin doesn’t suck. But for 11.5 a year we expect more…

 

[bleedblue94]

Agree 100%. Kinda takes me back to Jeter in his 2nd year with the 96 Yankees.
Yankees had a full on brawl with the Mariners and Jeter was seen chumming it up with ARod.
Posada was having none of that. Called him out publicly. You could argue that Jeter became a true pro form that point on.
I think these kids have gotten an easy pass from most of our vets. For all his warts Trouba seems to be the exception. Hopefully, Wheeler brings more of the same.

But this goes to the vets themselves. Most of them are too comfortable. It's the country club. That's why I referenced that love interview trouba did that night. He TRIED not to say certain things, but his long pauses and metered words said much more. I've mentioned it before but there was a rift in the room and it was on large part to how certain players took advantage of the hands off approach of the coaching staff. Entitlement breeds entitlement.

I agree and don’t hate this at all.

The margins at the top are tiny. The great players, besides a tiny minority of physical freaks, are great because they live and breathe the game. That isn’t taught. It’s bred into these people.

Laf ain’t that.

Kakko is a different animal. I think he might have that mindset but he’s just not consistently confident in himself.

Agree. I think with kakko it's mostly confidence. Kids has the juice to attack and cycle and then muffs on wide open dunk shots bc he's think of shit I better not miss this. We have all been there playing a bad stretch when we start thinking instead of playing. From day 1 here kakko has been overthinking, in large part to the stupid way Quinn handled him at the start.

Laffy and kakko struggle but for different reasons in my opinion. One is a lack of confidence and the other is a lack of commitment.

 

[bleedblue94]

All I said is he will get paid based on his production by his next team if there is a next team. This is the case with nearly every player in the league. This is really not groundbreaking news and not a bad thing either. Most of the scoring on this team came from every position but RW. This is a real need. It was simply awful last year. Kakko - 40 points, Goodrow played top 6 RW minutes - 31 points, Vesey too - 25 points. That's got to be some of the worst RW production in the league and we got a 6'5" 220 big body guy who can help with that for 800k. This is a no brainer signing.

So after all your bickering at me you have just come around to say the same thing I said at the start but just in a different way.

Thanks for that...