Player Discussion Alexis Lafrenière

[bondra]

Avs, Devils, Lightning also drafted guys who could skate and had the mentality to be good players. Kakko is a beta and Laf is just happy to be one of the guys and joke around on the bench.

Kakko's problem is between ears, I have met him couple times in real life and his very kind, nice and humble guy, unfortunately you can see it when his on the ice. He needs toughness and killer instinct to his game and stop avoiding mistakes ( Of course coaching has to do with this matter). Maybe experience will help him with those things.

Although I have bluewhite glasses on Im 100% sure Kakko will have a good career, maybe Voracek type of career. Is that enough for 2OA pick, probably not but it could be worse.

 

[Rangers in 7]

Avs, Devils, Lightning also drafted guys who could skate and had the mentality to be good players. Kakko is a beta and Laf is just happy to be one of the guys and joke around on the bench.

you know i never really thought about this but this is not how he played before coming here

i mean honestly he was an intense gamer who dominated at the world juniors against players older then him, he comes here and its like a country club atmosphere with zibs, panarin, and kreider leading the charge

i honestly wonder if they werent here if we would see the player that wanted to dominate before he was drafted

i think the problem with kakko and laf both stem from the fact that they look up to the older guys and see this laisse fair attitude to playing hockey and its rubbed off on them

 

[Bob Richards]

Let's pretend that some other team had the 1OA that year.....what's everyone's opinion on how he would have fared on any of the other teams picking in the top 5 that year? Yes, I know its just speculation....

I’d imagine more of the same. Sure he’d probably squeak in some more points that follow when you’re spoon fed ice time but I don’t think he’s secretly “Matthew Tkachuk in waiting” and the Rangers development team can’t unearth it.

When Yakupov busted there was plenty of discussion as to why. Seems like Oilers fans agree that though the environment and coach were certainly bad, at the end of the day Yakupov just wasn’t very good.

As deeply unimpressed as I am with Lafreniere in virtually every aspect through his entire career, I am ultimately still a beta cope clown and wont give up on him just yet.

 

[JHS]

This is the one thing I will never back down on. Fans here think that force feeding players on the top lines and top special teams will magically make a player a superstar. So what you're saying is that any joe-shmoe can be put on a top line and it will make them better??

I mean, we eventually did put Laf on the top lines and top PP unit and he did absolutely f*** all with the opportunity. You have to have the aptitude and skill to play there, or you're a pylon at best.

No I agree with you- force feeding him time will only make the situation far worse.

 

[DanielBrassard]

I’d imagine more of the same. Sure he’d probably squeak in some more points that follow when you’re spoon fed ice time but I don’t think he’s secretly “Matthew Tkachuk in waiting” and the Rangers development team can’t unearth it.

When Yakupov busted there was plenty of discussion as to why. Seems like Oilers fans agree that though the environment and coach were certainly bad, at the end of the day Yakupov just wasn’t very good.

As deeply unimpressed as I am with Lafreniere in virtually every aspect through his entire career, I am ultimately still a beta cope clown and wont give up on him just yet.

Agreed with all of this except for the last sentence. I gave up on him after his first year lol.

 

[DavidpauseReinbacher]

Cant develop shit. Baldness was the worst coach to go too and rangers the worst team to get him. They dont have any plan for these guys just want them to walk on the ice and be Messier.

 

[Mandar]

Cant develop shit. Baldness was the worst coach to go too and rangers the worst team to get him. They dont have any plan for these guys just want them to walk on the ice and be Messier.

So are you of the opinion that he would be lighting it up somewhere else if another team had drafted him? If so, why?

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Let's pretend that some other team had the 1OA that year.....what's everyone's opinion on how he would have fared on any of the other teams picking in the top 5 that year? Yes, I know its just speculation....

Well, he most likely would have been drafted by a team that knows how to develop young players and not forced to "earn it" first with his defensive assignments.

Swap Lafrenière and Stützle and we still end up with a guy struggling to eclipse 40 while the other is over a point per game.

Stützle had 90 points this season, by the way.

We have seen this for years. And it was always Gordie Clark's fault. It was always "We drafted the wrong guy". Can't use that excuse for Kakko and Lafrenière. That excuse goes out the window.

 

[Mandar]

Well, he most likely would have been drafted by a team that knows how to develop young players and not forced to "earn it" first with his defensive assignments.

Swap Lafrenière and Stützle and we still end up with a guy struggling to eclipse 40 while the other is over a point per game.

Stützle had 90 points this season, by the way.

We have seen this for years. And it was always Gordie Clark's fault. It was always "We drafted the wrong guy". Can't use that excuse for Kakko and Lafrenière. That excuse goes out the window.

okay....so if I read this correctly, you think that Laf would be over a point per game with another squad. Because of other teams developing players differently than we do.

Not judging your reply at all....interesting to see that you feel he has that kind of production potential.

 

[Smart Alek]

Byfield at 2 isnt exactly lighting shit up either

No, but watching him, it's easy to envision his path to stardom.

 

[NikC]

I share the frustration with our #1 and #2... I think they needed to play with the Wolf Pack before coming up, or at least sent down sooner in their careers...

Trouble is "THEY WANT TO WIN THE CUP!!!" yeah great, i get it, but it's asking alot to bring in guys at the NHL level and then they get the notice... oh btw fellas, we're competing for the cup this year, so be ready to consistently contribute.

I'm not looking for excuses here, but this franchise has little to no experience drafting and developing TOP talent. Everything has been imported since i've been a fan.

Other franchises have their top drafted talent join the team and develop accordingly.

New York has to demand immediate contributions, and thats not reality. I get all the NY BS,
I grew up in Brooklyn... City that never sleeps my @SS.... City that doesn't win at hockey.

 

[Ail]

I’d imagine more of the same. Sure he’d probably squeak in some more points that follow when you’re spoon fed ice time but I don’t think he’s secretly “Matthew Tkachuk in waiting” and the Rangers development team can’t unearth it.

When Yakupov busted there was plenty of discussion as to why. Seems like Oilers fans agree that though the environment and coach were certainly bad, at the end of the day Yakupov just wasn’t very good.

As deeply unimpressed as I am with Lafreniere in virtually every aspect through his entire career, I am ultimately still a beta cope clown and wont give up on him just yet.

Beta cope clown lmao.


Same.

 

[Bob Richards]

Beta cope clown lmao.


Same.

I am the virgin “stay the courser” while @DanielBrassard is the Chad “giver upper”

 

[DanielBrassard]

I am the virgin “stay the courser” while @DanielBrassard is the Chad “giver upper”

I need to learn to forgive Lafreniere today and let it go, let it go. Goodnight.

 

[Peltz]

I share the frustration with our #1 and #2... I think they needed to play with the Wolf Pack before coming up, or at least sent down sooner in their careers...

Trouble is "THEY WANT TO WIN THE CUP!!!" yeah great, i get it, but it's asking alot to bring in guys at the NHL level and then they get the notice... oh btw fellas, we're competing for the cup this year, so be ready to consistently contribute.

I'm not looking for excuses here, but this franchise has little to no experience drafting and developing TOP talent. Everything has been imported since i've been a fan.

Other franchises have their top drafted talent join the team and develop accordingly.

New York has to demand immediate contributions, and thats not reality. I get all the NY BS,
I grew up in Brooklyn... City that never sleeps my @SS.... City that doesn't win at hockey.

We do alright with goalies and a defensemen or two. But yea, our forwards are not so hot.

 

[bhamill]

This is the one thing I will never back down on. Fans here think that force feeding players on the top lines and top special teams will magically make a player a superstar. So what you're saying is that any joe-shmoe can be put on a top line and it will make them better??

I mean, we eventually did put Laf on the top lines and top PP unit and he did absolutely f*** all with the opportunity. You have to have the aptitude and skill to play there, or you're a pylon at best.

Well, you aren’t wrong. Just slapping any player on the top line and pp will NOT MAGICALLY make him a superstar. The player has to have the potential.
Conversely, though, if you DON’T give a player with potential those sorts of usage/responsibility you are going to be looking at a prolonged development arc. We groomed Kakko and Laf to be complimentary 3rd liners, for the time being. Expecting them to be more at this point is a setup for disappointment. Sure, we eventually gave them LIMITED responsibility and pp time, and of course demoted them at the slightest hiccup. Other top picks even players who had worse D+1’s than Laf were given those minutes and allowed to go through the growing pains IN THOSE ROLES. They were permitted to flounder till they righted their games. Jack Hughes was shit his D+1, Devils never wavered. But they had more to gain and little to lose by doing so. We were built completely different and the best thing for the team, in the moment, was to play the veteran stars in those roles.
We can bitch all we want about these young guys being “busts” or whatever, but the truth of the matter is we still don’t know what we have in these kids. If you think they are finished products at this stage we have a fundamental disagreement. (The general) you can SAY you know what they are/will be, but really we don’t, because we haven’t put these 21/22 year olds in roles of responsibility and rode it out. So we are going to have to wait.

 

[Row I Goon]

How many other teams have a discussion thread like this for their 1OA pick?

Asking for a friend....

 

[Oak]

I didn't read through this entire thread but I can imagine there is a lot of Laf hate in here. People comparing him to Hughes have to understand that the entire Devils team is setup to shelter him and help him succeed. Imagine if Laf had a similar setup? The kids confidence is gone. The roles they have tried to force him into are not his natural style of play.

Hughes does not play like a traditional center, he rarely goes below the dots in the D zone and in the O zone he also likes to stay high. This means another player has to play the center role when he floats around. Imagine if Laff had this much support?

I would have liked to see Laf finish on some of the shots he took but when your confidence is gone and you dont have a support system its very rare to see people overcome. If you never played the game at a high level its hard to understand how important the mental side is. A lot of these guys see sports psycholigists on a regular basis.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

okay....so if I read this correctly, you think that Laf would be over a point per game with another squad. Because of other teams developing players differently than we do.

Not judging your reply at all....interesting to see that you feel he has that kind of production potential.

No. I don't know how good Lafrenière would be elsewhere, but I am convinced Stützle would struggle to get to 40 points in this system that forces young forwards to "play the right way". The whole "earn it" philosophy makes sense for kids that are undrafted, or on an ATO (Vesey). But for a 1st overall pick? They've already earned something. They were picked 1st overall for f***s sake.

I am not sure how many points Lafrenière would have elsewhere, but I guarantee you it would be more than he has now. And he would most likely play with more confidence too.

This org is a graveyard for offensive talent.

 

[The New Russian Five]

Well, he most likely would have been drafted by a team that knows how to develop young players and not forced to "earn it" first with his defensive assignments.

Swap Lafrenière and Stützle and we still end up with a guy struggling to eclipse 40 while the other is over a point per game.

Stützle had 90 points this season, by the way.

We have seen this for years. And it was always Gordie Clark's fault. It was always "We drafted the wrong guy". Can't use that excuse for Kakko and Lafrenière. That excuse goes out the window.

I remember comparing Lafrenière and Stützle in their first 30 games of their careers, and I remember saying that I was really impressed with Stützle and very unimpressed by Lafrenière. I don't think this was simply a development issue. Stützle was probably the better prospect, but because he played in Germany he was written off.

 

[bhamill]

I remember comparing Lafrenière and Stützle in their first 30 games of their careers, and I remember saying that I was really impressed with Stützle and very unimpressed by Lafrenière. I don't think this was simply a development issue. Stützle was probably the better prospect, but because he played in Germany he was written off.

Very possible. I don’t think we will know for sure who ends up the better all around player till they are both 23-24, but obviously Stutzle has had the better run. Stutzle had 90 points last season, 62 at even strength, certainly nothing to sneeze at. And he’s just 21 he has time to learn the other aspects of being a complete player.

 

[WojtekWolski86]

There's a play in game 6 where 50/50 puck battle and he absolutely man handled (Severson I think) and walked away with the dman flopping a mini 2 on 1 and Laf just flubbed the pass.

It seems like when the moment is there he just isn't executing. The play was almost a mirror of his infamous WJC play that woke up Canada when they were playing USA.

He has skills they are just dormant here because whether it's the coach or getting treated like a 4th liner, he seems to believe he's a 4th line grinder and not a top talent.

 

[NYRFANMANI]

No. I don't know how good Lafrenière would be elsewhere, but I am convinced Stützle would struggle to get to 40 points in this system that forces young forwards to "play the right way". The whole "earn it" philosophy makes sense for kids that are undrafted, or on an ATO (Vesey). But for a 1st overall pick? They've already earned something. They were picked 1st overall for f***s sake.

I am not sure how many points Lafrenière would have elsewhere, but I guarantee you it would be more than he has now. And he would most likely play with more confidence too.

This org is a graveyard for offensive talent.

As much as I am certain that Stützle is just the better player (regardless of playstyle), I agree and have no doubt he would have struggled here big time.

How do we fix that though? That's bad, we can always lure the FA because of NYC, but if we're not willing to change and develop a developing culture, we're just a cash-cow*.

* no shit we are a cash-cow

 

[ReddestRum]

Very possible. I don’t think we will know for sure who ends up the better all around player till they are both 23-24, but obviously Stutzle has had the better run. Stutzle had 90 points last season, 62 at even strength, certainly nothing to sneeze at. And he’s just 21 he has time to learn the other aspects of being a complete player.

Come on B, wait 2-3 years to see who is better? In 2-3 years Stutzle will have double the points in less games and he still hasn't played a playoff game yet. Haha.

 

[Brutananadilewski]

There's a play in game 6 where 50/50 puck battle and he absolutely man handled (Severson I think) and walked away with the dman flopping a mini 2 on 1 and Laf just flubbed the pass.

It seems like when the moment is there he just isn't executing. The play was almost a mirror of his infamous WJC play that woke up Canada when they were playing USA.

He has skills they are just dormant here because whether it's the coach or getting treated like a 4th liner, he seems to believe he's a 4th line grinder and not a top talent.

He could have sent Hughes to the Netherrealm in the 3rd: Hughes had his head down constantly trying to regain possession of the puck. All he had to do was take one stride, but he just backed off to get the loose puck.

But here's the thing: that's actually a systematic problem for the whole team as there were numerous instances where Rangers swarmed Huges, all of them potentially had Hughes dead to rights, yet, no one blasted him.

There are things that reek because it has Turk's thumbprint...but there are rudimentary things that Laf does or doesn't do that make you go "wtf."

People wanted the kids to work on their acceleration. Did they work on their skating in the off-season?