Player Discussion Alexis Lafrenière

[Leonardo87]

From original expectations, yes.

40 points is very nice for a young player under 23 yo , but for a 1stOA pick, not so much. That is where the issue is, and he will never be able to break that “Bust” discussion until he starts putting up 60+ point seasons.

If we drafted Laf like 12th or even like 7thOA, there would really not be this much criticism on him.

Also, can we try and dial down the Kravtsov talk here, it’s getting a little off topic from the Laf discussion, thanks. (that was not directed at you, sorry)

 

[The Crypto Guy]

40 points is very nice for a young player under 23 yo , but for a 1stOA pick, not so much. That is where the issue is, and he will never be able to break that “Bust” discussion until he starts putting up 60+ point seasons.

If we drafted Laf like 12th or even like 7thOA, there would really not be this much criticism on him.

Also, can we try and stop talking about Kravtsov here (that was not directed at you, sorry)

But Laf is 21?

A 40 point player at that age is fine. 1AO or not. In 2 years, when he is 23, if he is still putting up 40 points then we have issues. People wont drop the "bust" discussion because he is a NYR. He can put up 60 points next year and people will still complain and cry he is a bust for only scoring 60 points.

 

[Leonardo87]

But Laf is 21?

A 40 point player at that age is fine. 1AO or not. In 2 years, when he is 23, if he is still putting up 40 points then we have issues. People wont drop the "bust" discussion because he is a NYR. He can put up 60 points next year and people will still complain and cry he is a bust for only scoring 60 points.

No i just used an age marker, I think any player 23 or under is still developing and has time, it’s when they hit that 24-25 yo mark have to start showing some concern. Although, Mika didn’t break out till he was 25-26 yo.

I personally think Laf will be fine, he is just going to need some time and we have to be patient.

 

[Psycho for Perreault]

In a few months Laf could be lifting the Stanley Cup over his head and some people here will criticize how fast he does his lap. That's not how a 1OA should celebrate. He needs to pass that off smoother.

 

[Row I Goon]

In a few months Laf could be lifting the Stanley Cup over his head…..

 

[NickyFotiu]

No i just used an age marker, I think any player 23 or under is still developing and has time, it’s when they hit that 24-25 yo mark have to start showing some concern. Although, Mika didn’t break out till he was 25-26 yo.

I personally think Laf will be fine, he is just going to need some time and we have to be patient.

It is a bit too early to say anything except for Stutzle. Laf has more goals than anyone else in his draft class other than Stutzle. Laf is 4th in points. When it comes to Stutzle sometimes you just have to tip your hat an acknowledge a guys ability. Ditto Hughes.

 

[haohmaru]

If Laff ends up having a Zibanejad type career, points wise, would people be disappointed?

They'd bitch about something. Contract. Term. NMC. Lazy. Disappears in the playoffs. Shitty coach. Something.

 

[egelband]

I dont know but I feel like I'm the only one that believes he's becoming an elite playmaker or showing signs of one.

He still struggles occassionaly on rushes but he has improved. He's not reading the defender properly and sometimes gets snuffed out but this happens to Kane and Panarin all the time. For some reason we hold the kids to a higher standard which makes little sense.

His little touch pass have been amazing all season long. He creates a lot of A+ scoring chances. If he had some consistent finishers he's approaching 50pts imo

Still has major room for improvement. His skating and his shot in particularly

He was off to a great start at the beginning of the year. On 31 Thoughts they were discussing the top playmaking wingers and they had him in the top 10. Then the bottom fell out. But he was getting a ton of recognition at the start of the year.
He had confidence and usage issues this year but he can do great things too. As with most young players, it just takes time to ‘put it all together’.

 

[LORDE]

Maybe I didn't understand the question???

If Laf has a career, pts wise, like Zibs... people would be upset????

 

[McRanger92]

In a few months Laf could be lifting the Stanley Cup over his head and some people here will criticize how fast he does his lap. That's not how a 1OA should celebrate. He needs to pass that off smoother.

Lots of our fans have very specific expectations of the #1 OA pick, despite the fact that the team has had 1 in their entire history lol. I still think the angst about Kakko and Lafreniere has most been noise from outside fans who dont know anything about the situation. It's on the fanbase for letting it get to us.

Maybe I didn't understand the question???

If Laf has a career, pts wise, like Zibs... people would be upset????

The goal posts are always moving

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

Maybe I didn't understand the question???

If Laf has a career, pts wise, like Zibs... people would be upset????

Apparently

From original expectations, yes.

What were your expectations?? Zib is a legit top center in the league with the numbers to back it up.

 

[mandiblesofdoom]

In a few months Laf could be lifting the Stanley Cup over his head and some people here will criticize how fast he does his lap. That's not how a 1OA should celebrate. He needs to pass that off smoother.

Hughes would do it a lot better

 

[The New Russian Five]

I think after next year Laf needs to be in the top 6. Panarin can't be moved, so I think we see Kreider moved after next season to open up a spot for Laf and open up cap space. They will probably tell him during contract negotiations this offseason that he only has to do 3rd line duties one more season. He's going to pop off when he gets in the top 6 regularly in a year.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

I think after next year Laf needs to be in the top 6. Panarin can't be moved, so I think we see Kreider moved after next season to open up a spot for Laf and open up cap space. They will probably tell him during contract negotiations this offseason that he only has to do 3rd line duties one more season. He's going to pop off when he gets in the top 6 regularly in a year.

What's wrong with keeping him where he is, where's he's looked the best and seems to have the most success and managing icetime a bit better? People get too caught up on line numbers. Say what you want about this coach but he's not shy about playing the line that has it going that night more.

 

[Levitate]

You can leave the "kid line" together if they're playing great and producing and just give them more icetime and PP time

Laf (and Kakko, and Chytil) will never live up to their draft position if they don't get PP time. Best case scenario next year is still that they are given a large number of EV minutes and relied upon in crucial situations and maybe some PP time scraps (since I don't think the main PP personnel is going to change)
Going forward as Panarin/Kreider declines/have their contract expire, and maybe Trocheck gets less PP time, you hope that these guys will be sliding into those spots and boosting their overall numbers.

Again a lot of their "disappointing numbers" are because they simply aren't given the opportunities other high draft picks are and have had to earn their icetime and coaches trust rather than be force fed it. I'm not making an argument about which way is better, I'm stating what I see as facts in their development and numbers.

But yeah i really hope next year their line is looked at to lead the team and not be the third option at EV

e: there are very very few players, even 1OA, who come in and immediately can legitimately earn those time minutes over the kind of established veterans that the Rangers had. McDavid, Crosby, Ovechkin, Malkin...guys like that. Most other players aren't going to come into the NHL at 18 and be legitimate top line players who can force other guys out of their spot. Instead, most come in and are given minutes because most teams that win the lottery don't have a ton of top talent to begin with. If the Rangers were truly bad I still dont' think you would have seen Laf and Kakko come in and light it up and dominate (just like Hughes didn't dominate in his first year)

 

[mas0764]

What were your expectations?? Zib is a legit top center in the league with the numbers to back it up.

My expectations (or hopes?) were a player just below or at Nate MacKinnon level. Not sure Zibs is there. Here at his peak, Zibanejad is like a 0.9-1.1 ppg player. MacKinnon is more like 1.2-1.5 ppg at his peak.

Huberdeau was supposedly like a low-end comp for Lafreniere, not the high end one. I was hoping for a 90 point player who could touch 100 once or twice with Lafreniere.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

My expectations (or hopes?) were a player just below or at Nate MacKinnon level. Not sure Zibs is there. Here at his peak, Zibanejad is like a 0.9-1.1 ppg player. MacKinnon is more like 1.2-1.5 ppg at his peak.

Huberdeau was supposedly like a low-end comp for Lafreniere, not the high end one. I was hoping for a 90 point player who could touch 100 once or twice with Lafreniere.

This seems miniscule. And Zib is a high end player, no? Is .04 such a huge difference considering everything else a guy like Zib brings? If Laff ends up a PPG player, I'd do cartwheels.

 

[mas0764]

This seems miniscule. And Zib is a high end player, no? Is .04 such a huge difference considering everything else a guy like Zib brings? If Laff ends up a PPG player, I'd do cartwheels.

That's not .04, it's .4.

It's almost half a point per game difference (1.1 vs. 1.5). It's kind of a huge difference, frankly... almost the difference between Zib and Laf CURRENTLY.

Zibs is a high end player and at THIS POINT I'd be reasonably satisfied if Lafreniere ends up an 80-85 point player like him, but when originally drafted I definitely had reasonable expectations for a 90-100 point winger with relative consistency and relatively early.

 

[bhamill]

My expectations (or hopes?) were a player just below or at Nate MacKinnon level. Not sure Zibs is there. Here at his peak, Zibanejad is like a 0.9-1.1 ppg player. MacKinnon is more like 1.2-1.5 ppg at his peak.

Huberdeau was supposedly like a low-end comp for Lafreniere, not the high end one. I was hoping for a 90 point player who could touch 100 once or twice with Lafreniere.

Well McKinnon never sniffed ppg till his D+5 and didn't close in on 1.5 ppg till this year, his D+10.
In McKinnon's D+3 he had 52 points (in 72 games) 36 EV points... Lafrereniere is really not far off of that at 76 games, 38 points, 35 EV points. So far.
I think there is plenty of time for Lafreniere to round into a ppg+ player, and possibly more. McKinnon level is not out of reach.

 

[mas0764]

Well McKinnon never sniffed ppg till his D+5 and didn't close in on 1.5 ppg till this year, his D+10.
In McKinnon's D+3 he had 52 points (in 72 games) 36 EV points... Lafrereniere is really not far off of that at 76 games, 38 points, 35 EV points. So far.
I think there is plenty of time for Lafreniere to round into a ppg+ player, and possibly more. McKinnon level is not out of reach.

I still have hope, but that's not what the question was.

If you had told me the day before we selected him that at age 29 his career high would be 83 points, I would have thought at least a little about selecting someone else.

 

[Levitate]

My expectations (or hopes?) were a player just below or at Nate MacKinnon level. Not sure Zibs is there. Here at his peak, Zibanejad is like a 0.9-1.1 ppg player. MacKinnon is more like 1.2-1.5 ppg at his peak.

Huberdeau was supposedly like a low-end comp for Lafreniere, not the high end one. I was hoping for a 90 point player who could touch 100 once or twice with Lafreniere.

and I think the point I was trying to make is that Laf will never ever reach those expectations or hopes without the kinds of opportunities that Mackinnon got when he broke out.

Laf won't even be an 80 point player until he gets first unit power play time.

So like...we're talking about how disappointed we are for a player who has not gotten the actual opportunities to put up those kind of numbers, in some ways he's still a real unknown because of it. He'd have to be a legit generational talent to come in and immediately get top EV and PP minutes on this current Rangers team, and he's not that (and as we can see even MacKinnon wasn't/isn't that). Expecting him to earn those minutes with his play/talent alone wasn't reasonable with the guys he'd have to beat out.

So for better or worse we're still left wondering "what exactly do we have" years after his draft because of all that

 

[bhamill]

I still have hope, but that's not what the question was.

If you had told me the day before we selected him that at age 29 his career high would be 83 points, I would have thought at least a little about selecting someone else.

Fair enough. I’m just saying Laf’s ceiling hasn’t necessarily lowered just because his development arc has been a little more protracted than we all had hoped. His numbers are not extremely far off of Nate’s in their respective D+3 seasons despite very different usages.

 

[The New Russian Five]

Well McKinnon never sniffed ppg till his D+5 and didn't close in on 1.5 ppg till this year, his D+10.
In McKinnon's D+3 he had 52 points (in 72 games) 36 EV points... Lafrereniere is really not far off of that at 76 games, 38 points, 35 EV points. So far.
I think there is plenty of time for Lafreniere to round into a ppg+ player, and possibly more. McKinnon level is not out of reach.

And Mac was force-fed 1st line minutes from the get-go. With power play time, Laf's stats would be somewhere in the realm of what Mac did his first few seasons.

 

[DanielBrassard]

And Mac was force-fed 1st line minutes from the get-go. With power play time, Laf's stats would be somewhere in the realm of what Mac did his first few seasons.

Somewhere in the realm is very broad and scoring was much lower when MacKinnon was breaking into the league compared to when Lafreniere was breaking in so it's not an apples to apples comparison anyway.

 

[PANARIN BREAD FAN]

Well McKinnon never sniffed ppg till his D+5 and didn't close in on 1.5 ppg till this year, his D+10.
In McKinnon's D+3 he had 52 points (in 72 games) 36 EV points... Lafrereniere is really not far off of that at 76 games, 38 points, 35 EV points. So far.
I think there is plenty of time for Lafreniere to round into a ppg+ player, and possibly more. McKinnon level is not out of reach.

the reason why found the switch in the beginning to become what he is is was a huge coaching change. if bednar had been hired a couple of years sooner mack might have approached a ppg avg earlier inhis career.

i don't want to appear to be attacking you in anyway shape or form. we're wired differently. from what laffy highlights that i've seen from qmjhl all the way to the present i don't see an 80+ scorer. what is it exactly that you see in your mind that i and maybe several others here don't?