Player Discussion Alexis Lafrenière

[Rangers in 7]

I just don't see what forcefeeding him PP mins will do when he looks anything but better on the PP than he does at ES

As I said, he'll get better. He's young. But elite is a pipedream at this pt

You understand that every top producing player in the nhl relies on being force fed PP time right?

Most top players score a third of their points on the PP

 

[The Crypto Guy]

You understand that every top producing player in the nhl relies on being force fed PP time right?

Most top players score a third of their points on the PP

For some it's much more than a third. Malkin and Tavares has more than half of his points on the PP. Even McDavid has half his points on the PP.

 

[Harbour Dog]

I'm curious, is a lot of the angst directed at the kids due to you guys having to deal with opposing fanbases in the States giving you shit?

Because I basically have never been razzed in real life about how they're developing, and I've been enjoying watching them grow; no angst at all. In fact, I'm pretty confident that they'll easily outplay whatever line they get matched up against by opponents in the playoffs.

 

[bhamill]

You understand that every top producing player in the nhl relies on being force fed PP time right?

Most top players score a third of their points on the PP

There are special rules as pertain to our kids. For instance when Laf scored 19 EV goals last year on an approx 17% shooting percentage, it was "unsustainable" and a bad indicator of his abilities. But this year Mercer has 23 (EV, PP and SH) with a 16% shooting percentage (Laf has 15 on a 12%) and it's "look how much better he is than Laf." Hahahaha. The logical contortions some of these guys go through is just wild, and to run down OUR prospects and pump up other teams'. And don't get me wrong, like Mercer a lot. NO WAY I'd trade Laf for him. Hahahaha.

 

[DanielBrassard]

How many people bagged on Chytil last year? He's doing pretty well this year. He's the one that drives that line and he could end up being the reason we go deep into the playoffs this year.

Laf (and Kakko) continue to improve. That's really all we can ask for. No, he isn't the superstar we all hoped for when we drafted him, but it's time for people to get over that and start appreciating him for what he is. I imagine a lot of Ottawa fans were disappointed with Zibanejad early in his career too, because he didn't live up to their expectations.

I'm hoping to see both Laf and Kakko take a Chytil-like jump in production next season. I think they can do it, especially if they get a bit more opportunity in the top 6 and on the PP.

I think this is a perfectly reasonable outlook to have for not only Lafreniere but for Kakko as well. But then there are others talking about how they compare to Jack Hughes or if they just had enough PP time and whatever and those arguments are doing them a disservice.

 

[bhamill]

I think this is a perfectly reasonable outlook to have for not only Lafreniere but for Kakko as well. But then there are others talking about how they compare to Jack Hughes or if they just had enough PP time and whatever and those arguments are doing them a disservice.

I don't think I've seen anyone say they are on the level of Hughes. I have compared Laf's and Hughes' D+1 seasons simply to illustrate that their usages have affected their rates of development since then, and to point out that 1OA's like the two of them are NORMALLY force fed top line time, a lot of minutes, responsibility and power play time EVEN when they don't deserve it. Hughes had an inferior D+1 to Laf despite 5 more games and an average of 4 more minutes a game. Hughes' deployment was beneficial to his development over team performance, Laf's usage was detrimental to the rate of his development, it was all about team performance.
Now, AGAIN, this doesn't mean Laf would be scoring the way Hughes has, it just means if given the same runway we would have a better idea of the player is is going to be, because LIKE Hughes he would be further along in his development.
It's neither a wild take nor a disservice. Just reality and logic. People thinking what they've seen this year on the whole is close to what he will be as a player are doing more disservice.

 

[LORDE]

You understand that every top producing player in the nhl relies on being force fed PP time right?

Most top players score a third of their points on the PP

I do understand that, but Laffy isn't a top producer & when he's been on PP1 he hasn't looked like one.

Now again, if you'd like we can remove Bread or Kane or Kreider or Tarasenko or Zbad or Trocheck

and then give their time to Laffy

If that's what you'd like... but I doubt Dolan, Drury or Gallant agree and there's a reason for that.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

He’s been much better at the end of the season than he was at the start. I think he has a big playoffs. Progress.

 

[bhamill]

BTW, I'm not convinced that Lafreniere will not be a better all around and valuable player than Hughes when all is said and done, though he very well may not be, and I don't see him being the level of scorer Hughes will be. Remains to be seen. IMO, Laf is going to be the type of player you go to war with in the playoffs, able to play the game any way you want to. As wonderful a regular season scorer as he is, we should find out a lot more about Hughes in this post season. Think Johnny Gaudreau. Can he stand up to the playoff grind and contribute offensively? Because if he's not scoring he brings nothing. We shall see. I mean Hughes is not a finished product either and I'm sure other parts of his game can round out in future seasons. I'm looking forward to NYR v NJD in the playoffs for sure.
NOTE. In case it needs to be explicitly stated lest someone take this the wrong way: NO I don't think Laf is currently near Hughes level.

I do understand that, but Laffy isn't a top producer & when he's been on PP1 he hasn't looked like one.

Now again, if you'd like we can remove Bread or Kane or Kreider or Tarasenko or Zbad or Trocheck

and then give their time to Laffy

If that's what you'd like... but I doubt Dolan, Drury or Gallant agree and there's a reason for that.

As much as I think Lafrenierre's development would (and would have) benefit(ed) from being stapled to the PP, NO, I don't think the team should do it. We are not the Devils or Senators of the past few years. The players on our PP deserve it.

 

[LORDE]

He’s been much better at the end of the season than he was at the start. I think he has a big playoffs. Progress.

I agree & hope so.

I'm not rooting against him I was just hoping for more at this point. That's all

(not aimed at you)

 

[Psycho for Perreault]

I do understand that, but Laffy isn't a top producer & when he's been on PP1 he hasn't looked like one.

Now again, if you'd like we can remove Bread or Kane or Kreider or Tarasenko or Zbad or Trocheck

and then give their time to Laffy

If that's what you'd like... but I doubt Dolan, Drury or Gallant agree and there's a reason for that.

What you are saying is why people need to lay off the kids though. The Rangers didn't rebuild the same way the Devils and other teams that get top draft picks do. They reloaded immediately and got to an ECF with the kid line being the best line we had for most of the run. The kids had to play a responsible game since they got here cause the games mattered. Hughes and most top prospects get high usage on losing teams early on. I'm not going to say the kids are elite, but we are not constructed to need them to be. The kids are way better than their usage on this team allows though. That's a fair compromise pretty much everyone should agree with.

 

[romba]

I'm curious, is a lot of the angst directed at the kids due to you guys having to deal with opposing fanbases in the States giving you shit?

Because I basically have never been razzed in real life about how they're developing, and I've been enjoying watching them grow; no angst at all. In fact, I'm pretty confident that they'll easily outplay whatever line they get matched up against by opponents in the playoffs.

Main boards is the likely culprit here

 

[bhamill]

I agree & hope so.

I'm not rooting against him I was just hoping for more at this point. That's all

(not aimed at you)

Totally reasonable. I think we ALL were hoping for more. I know I was hoping for 50pts D+1. Hahaha.

 

[LORDE]

What you are saying is why people need to lay off the kids though. The Rangers didn't rebuild the same way the Devils and other teams that get top draft picks do. They reloaded immediately and got to an ECF with the kid line being the best line we had for most of the run. The kids had to play a responsible game since they got here cause the games mattered. Hughes and most top prospects get high usage on losing teams early on. I'm not going to say the kids are elite, but we are not constructed to need them to be. The kids are way better than their usage on this team allows though. That's a fair compromise pretty much everyone should agree with.

Fair point & I agree to an extent but their development does matter as do their contributions or lack of. How far we go this post season will clearly depend on Shesty.

However, after him I think the kids will be the next most important component.

I'll also add that next yr we won't have Tank or Kane

Kreider Bread & Zbad will be older.

If we're expecting to have a long or secondary window with the kids (or whatever peoples' timelines are) the kids don't look to be good enough for that, meaning we'll need to go out & BUY elite player(s) once Bread etc are done. Again.

I was hoping for an elite franchise forward that we drafted, in my lifetime. That's all.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

I agree & hope so.

I'm not rooting against him I was just hoping for more at this point. That's all

(not aimed at you)

I think we were all hoping for more, that's not unreasonable for a 1OA. But he still has lots of time to right the ship. I was as hard on him as anyone here earlier in the season but he looks so much better since they put that line back together. He's not fumbling the puck anymore, he's playing with so much more confidence and swagger, and he's trying to make plays. He wants the puck. All good signs as far as I'm concerned.

And I truly believe that the organizations insistence that these young players develop a complete 200 foot game is not only going to benefit the players but the team as well. Bigly.

 

[IDvsEGO]

Fair point & I agree to an extent but their development does matter as do their contributions or lack of. How far we go this post season will clearly depend on Shesty.

However, after him I think the kids will be the next most important component.

I'll also add that next yr we won't have Tank or Kane

Kreider Bread & Zbad will be older.

If we're expecting to have a long or secondary window with the kids (or whatever peoples' timelines are) the kids don't look to be good enough for that, meaning we'll need to go out & BUY elite player(s) once Bread etc are done. Again.

I was hoping for an elite franchise forward that we drafted, in my lifetime. That's all.

I think the expectation is next season that the kids are the second line.
Slide panarin up with mika, and find a RW for that first line, and then slide CK down with trocheck for a 3rd line.

If the kids are getting closer to 17 minutes of ice time, instead of the 15 we're seeing, it should be reasonable to expect 50-60 points from all of them at least.

 

[bhamill]

IMO we’re only seeing the tip of the iceberg so far. He’s obviously got the skills he was drafted for. It’s a matter of confidence and getting comfortable. He’s still maturing physically AND mentally. He gets some more confidence with a good playoff and busts his ass strength training this off season and next season will be a major step forward for him.

 

[ReddestRum]

He looked damn good today. His confidence can be questioned no more if he's making moves like that in the slot. He's deferring when he needs to, but is taking control of his destiny more because he's driving the play. After some snooze, the kid line has been rockin' and rollin' for the last few weeks, and this is what we're going to need going into the ploffs, because the vets (even though they're putting up points), are taking their turn to snooze on 5v5.

 

[bhamill]

He looked damn good today. His confidence can be questioned no more if he's making moves like that in the slot. He's deferring when he needs to, but is taking control of his destiny more because he's driving the play. After some snooze, the kid line has been rockin' and rollin' for the last few weeks, and this is what we're going to need going into the ploffs, because the vets (even though they're putting up points), are taking their turn to snooze on 5v5.

Yeah. It’s all going to be about strength and consistency. He’s probably going to have his confidence ebb and flow for a while more. He’s still only 21. The key is getting the highs to be higher and longer and the dips to be shorter and farther between.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

@EdJovanovski



Vs.

 

[QJL]

Fair point & I agree to an extent but their development does matter as do their contributions or lack of. How far we go this post season will clearly depend on Shesty.

However, after him I think the kids will be the next most important component.

I'll also add that next yr we won't have Tank or Kane

Kreider Bread & Zbad will be older.

If we're expecting to have a long or secondary window with the kids (or whatever peoples' timelines are) the kids don't look to be good enough for that, meaning we'll need to go out & BUY elite player(s) once Bread etc are done. Again.

I was hoping for an elite franchise forward that we drafted, in my lifetime. That's all.

At the same age as Lafreniere, these were stat lines of some current point per game players in their 3rd season post draft:

Tage Thompson 65 GP 7-5-12
Mika Zibanejad 69 GP 16-17-33
Alex Tuch 78 GP 15-22-37
Kevin Fiala 54 GP 11-5-16
Roope Hintz 58 GP 9-13-22

You don’t know if our kids are good enough yet. We will be finding out here shortly. I’d bet we have 2-3 future top line players in Fil, Kakko, and Laf.

 

[NickyFotiu]

I know this doesn't get stat guys excited but what I liked yesterday was the game announcer saying the kids line was responsible defensively.

 

[egelband]

I know this doesn't get stat guys excited but what I liked yesterday was the game announcer saying the kids line was responsible defensively.

if nothing else the rangers bringing them along so…methodically…has ensured they’re going to be well-rounded players. I believe they’ll eventually be 60-plus point players, and if so, those are winning players. It’s a blast seeing them start to realize their potential.

 

[LORDE]

At the same age as Lafreniere, these were stat lines of some current point per game players in their 3rd season post draft:

Tage Thompson 65 GP 7-5-12
Mika Zibanejad 69 GP 16-17-33
Alex Tuch 78 GP 15-22-37
Kevin Fiala 54 GP 11-5-16
Roope Hintz 58 GP 9-13-22

You don’t know if our kids are good enough yet. We will be finding out here shortly. I’d bet we have 2-3 future top line players in Fil, Kakko, and Laf.

All well & good and as I have said ALLLLLLLLLLL along that's what I still hope for.

Laffy & the kids have been better... in Laffy's case its hard to see how he could be any worse than he was at the start of this season & last.

I was very impressed with his game yesterday especially & I am NOT Talking about the goal either.

We will be finding out shortly? I hope so... if we're gonna win a Cup they have to be.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

The kids are alright...and next year expect them to be even better, especially Laf. It's kinda funny that they have to score for people to take notice but they've been playing well for a while, their neutral zone play and back check is underrated, and that's not a new thing.